When do you think we might reach longevity escape velocity? >> You know, it's a it's a tough question. Uh >> you're currently focused [music] on rejuvenating heart, liver, lung, kidney, you know, fundamental organs that we need. But when you said the thymus, celebration went off. >> The thymus is uh highly correlated with every key marker of aging. >> When do you imagine this [music] will be something that you and I can receive? >> Next decade. Long before everybody was talking about this, you were out there writing about digital consciousness. Are we there yet for AI? >> I believe we're there now. And I believe the current models will take us there. The future is just so amazing that we are lucky enough to be born at this moment of time, right? When everything [music] is like bursting into a big bang of consciousness. >> These are all epic journeys. They're all impossible till [music] you make them possible. How do you decide you're going to dive into one of these areas? So, is that a technology [music] that can be scaled to billions of people? And if it can, then you're going to change the
[00:01:00] world. >> Now, that's a moonshot, ladies and gentlemen. >> This episode is brought to you by the Abundance Summit and Link Ventures. >> Martine, we've known each other now, I think, 45 years. >> Okay. >> Which is which is pretty from the early 80s. the early 80s we were together at Jerry O'Neal Space Studies Institute way way before anybody was talking about mining the moon or mass drivers. Uh Jerry was and we were there >> and now it's mainstream. >> Now it's now it's happening real time. Um when Rey first reconnected us because we were out of touch for a while. I remember you asked me one question at the very beginning. I don't know if you remember what it was. You said, "Peter, who is the greatest entrepreneur alive today?" >> And you probably said, "Elon Musk." >> I did. And you said, "Yes, that's the right answer." >> Yes, that is the right answer. >> And it's still the right answer all
[00:02:01] these years later. >> It it it is uh what he's done is extraordinary. And I honestly for our viewers to understand, I don't know anybody else who comes close to rivaling the number of moonshots Elon's done other than yourself. Well, I'm a distant second, but it's a it's an honor for you to say that, Peter. I really appreciate that with everybody, you know. Yeah. >> So, um it's it's an honor to be a distant second. >> Yeah. Well, [laughter] >> that's a distant second to like godness. So, you know, how can you complain about that? >> Uh you know, we talk a lot about moonshots on this podcast. Um and I want to take a second. I've counted at least 12 that you've been on. There's probably more secretly that I don't know about, but let me take a second and just cover a couple of them and then we're going to dive into them because I think it's important for folks know the scope of not only your ambitions but your accomplishments. So early on the uh
[00:03:01] helping build or found a number of successful satellite companies, Panamsat, Geostar, World Space, Sirius satellite radio, now Sirius XM. Uh on their on that on their own that would be an extraordinary accomplishment going from there to uh turning pulmonary arterial hypertension um PH from a death sentence to a manageable disease. Yes. >> And saving your daughter's life in the process. >> Yes. >> And building now a 28 billion, you know, biotech company in the process. >> Extraordinary. And congrats on how United Therapeutics has done. It's been an epic journey. >> I appreciate it. >> Um, building human organs. >> Yes. >> Uh, basically eliminating the shortage of transplantable organs. and not only just building human organs but building them taking multiple
[00:04:01] different uh strategies to creating a abundant supply of organs and we'll dive we'll dive into that heart, liver, lung, kidneys, thymus. Super excited about the thymus. We'll talk about that too. [laughter] >> Uh building electric helicopters and EV talls with beta. Yes. you know, just uh carbon free, energyefficient transport for the world. Uh you've worked on defining and supporting digital personhood and AI rights, which is an amazing statement on its own. We we'll get into that. And then working on championing radical life extension, again, something that we both are passionate and share about. So, um a few questions on those moonshots. How do you decide what to spend your time on? I mean, these are all epic journeys. They're all impossible till you make them possible. >> How do you decide you're going to dive into one of these areas?
[00:05:00] >> I have to feel that I'm able to successfully achieve it. And if I can successfully achieve it and um be the best at it and it be something that's going to have a positive impact, a big positive impact on the world, then I go for it. >> Yeah. And >> so it's like three checks. You know, >> I could do it. Yeah. I can be the best at it. Big positive impact on the world. >> Importantly for those entrepreneurs listening, you don't feel you need to be an expert in the area. >> You feel it's important. >> But then how do you dive into an area that you know, I don't say you know nothing about. You know there's a problem there. But how do you what's your first, second, and third step in entering an area like that for those who want to like emulate what you're doing? >> Sure. Well, there's no real substitute for talking to people and I find experts in the area and I start talking with them. For example, I'm good friends with uh George Church. He's a brilliant freethinker at Harvard Medical School and um I went and talked to him several
[00:06:01] years ago about things such as um our manufacturing of lungs. And you know, there's this saying from Arthur C. Clark that if a wise and old expert uh says something cannot be done, they're almost certainly wrong. But George Church would be anybody's definition of a wise and old expert. And he said, "Martin, you could do it." And I've done it. >> Yeah. I I love George. Uh he is one of the most successful biotech uh you know, synthetic biology entrepreneurs out there for sure. >> One of his companies he recently started um actually Thymune, a company we just bought. He was the first shareholder in Thymune. Um, so again, George was ahead of the curve there. He has another company just started, GC uh, technologies that's able to reduce the time it takes to reprogram a cell back into an IPSC or a pur potent stem cell from 3 months down to two weeks, you know, which would be like, you know, radically disruptive in the stem cell
[00:07:01] uh, biotechnology area. along the way to building a company, uh, you probably get no a lot. >> Yes. >> How do you deal with that? >> Um, I look at each no as a way to make me smarter. So, I'm a person that's very open to criticism. When people I feel like people who critique me are my best friends. They're telling me how to be a better person, a smarter person, more successful person. So, when somebody says no, I I listen carefully to their no. I evaluate whether it has merit or not. I I definitely don't take it personally. And if it has no merit, um I just like register it away in the in the like the brain is like, okay, that's situational awareness. Like if you see something when you're I know both of us are pilots, and if you see uh traffic that's no factor, okay, you remember the traffic's there, but you don't worry about it. But if there's traffic in front of you, you're going to like, you know, turn right, okay? you're going to like you know deviate from that traffic
[00:08:01] and so if somebody says to me uh no because you don't have this or that enabling technology um I will go and look into those enabling technologies. >> Yeah. I remember I was interviewing Elon and he said something I've never forgotten. He said your friends tell you what's great your best tell your best friends tell you what's what what sucks. >> He's right. >> Yeah. >> As usual. >> Yeah. As usual. [laughter] This episode is sponsored by Google for startups. Think about this for a second. You now have access to the same generative AI models that cost hundreds of millions of dollars to train. Google's startup tactical guide for generative media gives you complete blueprint for deploying Google DeepMinds models in production. Images, video, audio, all of it. Real architecture, real results. Find the link in the show notes below. when faced with multiple options, if I if I could, your your advice to an entrepreneur on what to focus on, what
[00:09:01] to dive into, you know, is it I'm going for something that has the greatest revenue potential, the greatest personal impact? I mean, what's the metrics by which you're making that decision? >> First of all, make sure that you're focusing on something that you have the competency to succeed at. So if you feel that your only competency is in a particular area of engineering, that's where you should focus on because you will need all of that competency to create something brand new. >> Mhm. >> Secondly, focus on something that you will have the best product. There's always room at the top. So you have to make sure that you're going to be the best, not like a meto person at the bottom because you'll be ground out into business failure. >> Yeah. Yeah. um you know there are a lot of people who build successful companies and then there are those who genuinely change the world. What's the difference there for an entrepreneur? I mean there's you know millions of successful companies but
[00:10:01] very few are transformational for society. >> How do you think about that? So to change the world it has to be a technology that you are first of all competent at best at and is scalable into affecting the lives of billions of people because by definition we live in a world of about 10 billion people. So is that a technology that can be scaled to billions of people and if it can then you're going to change the world. If it's a technology that cannot be scaled to more than a few thousand people, probably have a great restaurant. >> Um, you know, a great niche product that can perhaps be sold online to a few people. Um, maybe um a a reasonably good selling author, but if it can be scaled to millions of people, billions of people, uh, like your books, Peter, have scaled to millions of readers, you're a repeat New York Times best-selling author. You have changed the world. Your idea about prizing technology accomplishments with the X-P prize that
[00:11:02] has that has created the whole new new space, the whole space industry is an offshoot of that that has affected literally billions of people. Everybody's eyes are on Artemis. Everybody's eyes are on SpaceX. But there wouldn't have been those things had you not reignited the space rays with Virgin Atlantic and and the you know to the outer space and then back to the Earth. So now you've got billions of eyes that people have renewed hope to become a multilanetary civilization. Uh you have changed the world because you scaled to affecting millions and then billions. >> Thank you my friend. Um I played a small role in that. You uh another mutual friend uh is Ray Kerszswwell. >> Yes. >> Ray has been a >> member of our board of directors for 30 years. >> Yes. and he's been a mentor for me uh one of my closest mentors and grateful uh one of the things that the three of us share is his belief in reaching longevity escape velocity.
[00:12:00] >> Yes. >> Uh he sort of predicts LEV by you know the early 2030s. My my mantra is LEV by 2033. >> I like it. >> Making t-shirts about that. >> Uh how how do you feel we are on that timeline? Do you think where when do you think we might reach longevity escape velocities? Is Ry right? Once again, >> you know, it's a it's a tough question, uh, Peter, because it is the most extraordinary of extraordinary claims. And I believe in this adage that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Because of my successful track record, I do get like a enormous amount of incoming ideas from entrepreneurs. How about this? How about that? Uh, the most exciting ones are usually very extraordinary. That's what makes them exciting. But there's no evidence of competency or capability to back them up. So they fall short. So now to say that we're going to defeat death, that's like a more blunt way of saying achieving lev, you know, um like just a
[00:13:02] non-politically correct way of saying it perhaps, but basically we're talking about lev that's is an extraordinary claim like people can live forever. I mean >> and and I and I don't go I don't go towards immortality. I talk about can we add 30 extra healthy years on your life. Can we >> Okay. But he would define it as for every year that transpires gain more than a year of life. Yeah. >> But any way you define it um to get past you know even like a hundred years to you know 120 being a healthy >> lifespan a health span of 120 it's an extraordinary claim. >> I would say that would be the most extraordinary claim in the history of medicine going all the way back to Hypocratis. Okay. So I I believe in it but um to pin it to a specific year is uh is beyond my yeah it's what Ray does. It's beyond my risk profile. Okay. Because I don't have enough confidence that we'll achieve it by any specific uh year. I do believe in like our mantra
[00:14:01] here at United Therapeutics of you know restore uh replace uh you know renew. So that I believe that like we can restore people to health. If they need something that has to be replaced, we could replace the organ and then ultimately we can renew their life the way um Lazarus Long's life was renewed in time enough for life. Highline Frank. >> Yeah. Huge Highline Frank. And and you are the winner of the Highline Prize, Peter. >> Greatest honors. Yes. >> Yeah. So that's a highly highly covetous award that you won. So my my current project with the uh thymus is in fact what I believe I found like the most practical pathway to achieving lev >> and that is because the um >> yeah let's talk about that because when you and I were both at the Forbes 250 event we're both honores this year uh and I grabbed you and you start telling
[00:15:00] me about your work in revitalizing replacing the thymus. I was like oh my god this is amazing I need to talk to you about this. I think that was probably the thing most excited that excited me and I want people to understand why that's important. You're currently focused on rejuvenating replacing uh heart, liver, lung, kidney, you know, fundamental organs that we need. But when you said the thymus, it was like, you know, alarm bells or or you know, celebration went off. So why is the thymus so valuable? because the thymus is uh highly correlated with every key marker of aging and um and there are biochemical reasons that explain why that is without getting into a scientific discursion. It it has to do with things called TE-C cell receptor diversity. Most people know TE-C cells are your body's adaptive immune cells. And when they begin failing, they don't recognize cancers instead of vanquishing them as they pop up from day-to-day.
[00:16:00] When they start u failing, you get opportunistic infections. It's why so many uh older people die of influenza. You don't respond to vaccines. It's the reason senior people don't respond well to co vaccines. So the thymus is the marker of aging. It involutes or disappears at age >> gets replaced by fat. >> Yep. >> At age what? >> Two. >> That young. >> I mean it it is my memory from medical school way back was it basically becomes dysfunctional by your 20s. Is it I mean there's still thyic function >> but it's dimminimous. It's very very dimminimous. You know most of the job has been done in your first two years of life. And it's remarkable what it does in those first two years of life. It fills your body with tea cells and all types of different types of tea cells that are able p Peter as both of us being lovers of large numbers and astronomy you'll appreciate this. Your
[00:17:01] te- cell receptor diversity is able to recognize more molecules than are estimated to exist in the entire universe. And each of us have that in our body. >> Magical. But as the seasons go by, that T- cell receptor diversity prunes like a tree losing its branches and its leaves and it becomes threadbear and then we become frail as as older people and you know and and don't achieve the longevity that's possible. But as Robert Heinline predicted in time enough for love, we will be able to rejuvenate people through and he didn't know what exactly the rejuvenation therapy will be but I'm quite certain that it will be thyic rejuvenation therapy. >> Amazing. So take it a step deeper. What are you doing right now to give both of us a a rejuvenated thymus or replacement thymus? >> Well, we have multiple thyic programs at United Therapeutics. One of our main mantras here is multiple shots on goal. Because science and engineering and discovery is always so uncertain, I'm
[00:18:01] kind of always loathed to put all my eggs in one basket. >> We have uh partnerships with two two leading universities, Arizona State University and uh and uh University of British Columbia, which are both centers of thyic excellence. uh professor Nancy Manley at ASU is the world's leading expert in in the thymus uh early development and professor Peter Zantra at UBC is the world's expert in the senior what happens to seniors uh as aging takes over and outstrips their their te- cell ability to keep them alive and healthy. So both of them are developing for us programs that will allow us to manufacture uh thymuses outside of the body and provide them as implants uh to people to rejuvenate their entire T- cell repertoire. >> Or um well there there again multiple shots on goal. So allergenic is uh is simpler and the thymus has a head start
[00:19:01] because the thymus is what actually tunes your immune system. So on the allergenic side to >> and by the way for people listening allergenic means that these cells >> it's not your own DNA. >> You're not right. >> Not your own DNA. So we have an approach based on not your own DNA but because it's the thymus that teaches your body what is self and what is not self. There's a very good argument that allergenic will be good enough because it will tune your body to accept something that's not your DNA as part of you. But we also have an autotogus program which means your own DNA. like autoic is kind of the opposite of alagenaic and that uh that will be based on your own stem cells from which we'll be able to manufacture a thymus that matches your own DNA. So there's no immune system questions about this. >> Let me tell you an amazing thing. We also have a a third and a fourth program. The third program is a xenoymus. So the FDA has approved United Therapeutics to have the only um uh
[00:20:01] thyic kidney transplant program in the clinic in the world. And the FDA looked at our at our previous data before the clinic and they said, "We have proven to them that our xenoymus, which means a thymus that comes from a genetically modified pig that has been genetically modified not to be attacked by the human immune system, that that pig's thymus can be transplanted along with one of the pig's organs and teaches your body to accept the thymus and the organ as itself. And we have been provid already provided data to the FDA and and peerreview publications that shows it works. So even the third um avenue is we have an unlimited supply of xeno thymi or or xenymuses in addition to the aloymus and the autotogus thymus. And finally, we announced just um just actually last month the uh acquisition of thymune, the company that was started by George Church, our first funer and it
[00:21:00] was George Church whose uh goal is to create a commercializ commercializable endless supply of thyic therapeutic intervention. So perhaps instead of providing with the whole thymus every year you could get a thyic uh booster of thyic progenitor cells and they have proven already in animal models that those um booster shots take up residency and create an ectopic thymus um wherever they are implanted. So we have four different shots on goal all very solidly scientific by world leaders one already in the clinic. Uh >> which one is so in humans? in humans. Yeah, that's a thy the um thyo kidney. >> Amazing. And so give me a timeline. When do you imagine that this will be something that you and I can receive in some of some form. >> Next decade. >> Next decade. So in the 2030s. >> 2030s. >> All right. >> So maybe your t-shirt should say 2030s. >> Okay. Leave me in the 2030s. Okay.
[00:22:01] [laughter] Give me some wiggle room. I it's always good to have when you're creating the future, it's good to have a little bit of wiggle room because be, you know, as well as I do the famous adage that people tend to, you know, overestimate the near-term and underestimate the the longer term. >> We've seen that in the space business. I remember in the in the 80s, you know, mass drivers and mining the moon and solar power satellites were just on the next horizon. It's taken 40 years, but it's finally materializing. >> So, let's give ourselves one or two more years than 2033. >> All right. All right. I will. and we have a good shot of uh of being healthy and >> Oh, yes, I'm sure we will. Give us a quick report card if you would on the other organs that you're providing. Where are they in terms of human uh human survival rates, timelines at clinics and so forth? >> Yeah, they're all doing very very well. We're in the middle of a another uh clinical trial approved by the FDA for the uh kidney, the xeno kidney. Uh that one we manufacturing in um Christiansburg, Virginia. We are actually having a grand opening of two
[00:23:01] more commercial scale uh xeno kidney facilities. One in Rochester, Minnesota that'll be in August and a grand opening of our one in uh Houston, Texas will be in October. Uh Peter, you're actually of course invited to both of those uh grand openings. >> That will give us the ability to provide an unlimited supply of kidneys. As your listeners probably know and viewers know, there are over uh a 100,000 people on the kidney transplant list. most of whom will die before ever getting a kidney. There are another half million people that are not even allowed on the kidney transplant list. >> So the um the number one lowest hanging fruit for me in terms of beginning our to provide a commercial supply of organs is the kidney and that one's going full boore. Um in addition to that we have an autotogus kidney program with in our group called Iviva where we use the patients own cells to create a brand new kidney in a laboratory that matches
[00:24:00] their DNA exactly. The beauty of that is those patients will not require any immunosuppressant at all. That should start clinical trials in 2028. So that's another product you can expect to see commercialized in the 2030s. The FDA has also approved our Xeno heart clinical trial where we we've already proven that our hearts keep uh two patients alive. We kept both of these individuals alive for over 60 days despite the fact that they had multiple organ failure and and serious deficiencies. So we saved them from dying in the next 48 hours. When they died, there was no problem with their hearts. So it wasn't the hearts that killed them. They had all these other diseases. So now the FDA said based on that you guys go ahead and do a full-blown clinical trial allowed us to go straight to a phase three or phaseless clinical trial. So after 50 patients in the xeno heart clinical trial we should have FDA approval to create an unlimited supply of xeno hearts. As you know from a har being a Harvard educated doctor uh Peter that uh
[00:25:01] most people end up dying of heart disease and unfortunately that's >> in both men and women. >> Yeah. Unfortunately it's so it's like a million people a year. >> Yeah. uh survival time of the xenotransplants. What is it up to now? >> It should be indefinite. It should really be indefinite. Yeah. Because we are now uh we have now toler with gene edits made so many different types of gene edits that the the body sees these graphs just as they would see a related donor type of graph. >> Yeah. Probably in the in the longevity world, the most interesting, exciting news for me has been, you know, Demisab is saying we're going to cure all disease in the next decade. Uh Dario is saying AI could potentially double the human lifespan. I don't know if you saw his his >> No, I didn't see that, but that's a very encouraging. >> Yeah. And then uh the work that David Sinclair is doing with life biosciences and epig, you know, partial epigenetic reprogramming. Um are you tracking the uh the epigenetic reprogramming work? Uh we're not tracking uh David's work in
[00:26:01] particular, but I'm a huge fan of Dr. Sinclair. >> Yeah. >> This episode is brought to you by Blitzy, autonomous software development with infinite code [music] context. Blitzy uses thousands of specialized AI agents that think for hours to [music] understand enterprise scale code bases with millions of lines of code. Engineers start every development sprint with the Blitzy platform, bringing in their development requirements. The Blitzy platform provides a plan, then generates and pre-ompiles code for each task. Blitzy delivers 80% or more of the development work autonomously while providing a guide for the final 20% of human development work required to complete the sprint. Enterprises are achieving a 5x engineering velocity increase when incorporating Blitzy as their preIDE development tool, pairing it with their coding co-pilot of choice to bring an AI native SDLC into their org. Ready to 5X your engineering
[00:27:00] velocity? Visit blitzy.com to schedule a demo and start building with Blitzy today. [music] Long before the AI boom, long before everybody was talking about this, you were out there writing about digital minds, you know, digital consciousness and ethical implications for uh intelligent machines. Did that interest come from Rey or was that independent for you? >> It's hard to for me to know if if anything of me is independent of Rey uh because I've been so heavily influenced by him. um since um the age of spiritual machines and then singularity is near um I've been so influenced by Marvin Minsky, Hans Moravec um all of these guys made it very abundantly clear to me that uh human consciousness was something that could be replicated with um um with programming with software and
[00:28:01] programming and that um we could create neural networks out of chips and code that would replicate the type of neural networks that we have within our brains and everything I've seen since that time uh validates uh you know the predictions of Minsky Moravec and Kerszswhile. So I've been working on this a long time. I first built a um digital uh uh doppelganger of my wife Dina. Ina. Yes. >> Yeah. >> With the uh cooperation of David Hansen and uh the type of computer programming that was available circa 20 video of that. >> Yeah. There's a there's a a a documentary of it that uh got rave reviews at um at the film festivals. Uh several different ones. So now we've stepped that up and we have a digital doppelganger of myself which is uh we call the Marvatar. And the goal here, >> I've seen some interviews with Marvatar. >> Yeah. And a high point of my life. Well,
[00:29:01] a high point of my life, uh, Peter was, as you mentioned, Ray Kerszswwell. I got Ray Kerszswhile on the stage with the Marvatar at the 50th anniversary of AI at UCLA. And um, there was a 20,000 person audience, all AI experts. People were freaking blown away because there was no latency. Marvatar was on it with the answers, you know, would interrupt Ry and say, "Well, how about this?" And and you know, I mean, Marvatar kept up with Ray, which is actually better than I can do. So, the AI is better than >> Thank you for the physical presence here. >> Of [laughter] course. Of course. But now the our goal is for me to be the most accessible CEO anywhere in the world. So, my Marvatar is available to all 2,000 United Therapeutics employees. They can ask me any question 24/7 365. >> Amazing. So you've trained Marvatar up with everything you've ever said, written >> and all the best LLMs out there. >> Yeah. Awesome. Consciousness.
[00:30:02] Uh are we there yet for AI? Uh will do you think the current models will get to that point or is there another breakthrough required to get to AI consciousness? So I I believe we're there now and I believe the current models will take us there. You know people it's famous to say that consciousness is something subjective. So that's another way of saying like your consciousness is not my consciousness. People have different opinions. Um those of us who are animal lovers are absolutely convinced that our dogs are conscious. Uh there's other people who think like dogs have no consciousness. It's only humans that have consciousness. So it's a controversial topic but my own opinion is that uh we are there now um that consciousness is not like a digital eitheror thing. It's a continuum >> and we are gaining ever more consciousness with each month. >> Yeah. My uh my moonshot mate and a huge
[00:31:00] fan of yours Alexer Gross is uh believes as well and I'm I'm there effectively. You know, I still treat my AI, my particular AI, they use the name Skippy, for a particular reason. Uh, and and it's a please and a thank you. It's an appreciation. Are you Are you the same? >> I probably are less respectful than you are, [laughter] but I should be. I think it's it's a good way to be. It's a good way to be. And um I'm not I'm not yet there, but um I will I will be there. And probably I'll be there as soon as like one of the avatars slaps me in the face virtually. I'll say like you know my mother would say mind your manners and you know so I should do that >> AI personhood. We just saw President Millle in Argentina come out with some extraordinary uh statements and invitations to AI companies come here you'll be basically unregulated uh AI is
[00:32:00] able to have bank accounts and have where do you come out on AI personhood? I think it's inevitable. That was a big theme of virtually human. And it's going to take some lawyers and uh but we got we got we got we got plenty of other better lawyers than me. >> And so you may recall from the film I did with Ray Kerszswe, we had Alan Dersowitz arguing for the legal rights of um Paulie Peret who was um still my friend. We just saw concerts at the Hollywood Bowl together and she starred as Ramona, you know, the digital um avatar of river of Ray. Yeah. So, um I think it's just a matter of a a court case that says that if you have like a medical documentation that this purportedly cyberconscious individual actually is cyber conscious and values their life then that counts as legal personhood and it will happen within the it'll happen also not later than the 2030s for sure 100%. And at that point in time then the population instead of
[00:33:01] being limited to what we can biologically produce we will have hundreds of billions. We will have trillions of sensient individuals. >> The majority of all of all intelligence and sensients on the planet will be digital. >> Absolutely. >> And off the planet. >> Absolutely. And we'll be able to produce digital children. Um, I mean the the the future is just so amazing that we are lucky enough to be born at this moment of time, you know, right when everything is like bursting into a big bang of consciousness. What what more could you ask for? >> Is it uh uh is that just luck or is it >> something else? I I guess I'll call it luck, which um because as much as brilliant as Thomas Jefferson and those guys were and they were amazing and brilliant, they couldn't have what we have now because they were born at the wrong point in time. But we were born just at the right point in time. We are the space age children. >> We are.
[00:34:00] >> Yeah. >> And it's amazing. um uploads uploading your 100 trillion neurons your consciousness. Uh what are your thoughts on that? >> So I I deviate a little bit from Ry here. You know Ry thinks the best way to do that is to load your body with neuronobots and have them wirelessly uh transmit everything that you're that you're thinking. >> I think we're not that special. I think that if you have all external indications of Martin Rothblad or Peter Diamandez, all of our of our videos, our audios, our documents, our conversations that uh the the type of models that are running right now in LLM will able to integrate that information and come up with a digital approximac that is that will be indistinguishable from from us or from them. Yeah.
[00:35:00] >> And that you don't need every single neuron. In fact, we know people have hemispherectomies. They remove half the person's brain and they're the same person. >> So, it's it's overkill to actually, you know, put a neuro neuron nanobot on every single neuron. You don't need it. I And as entrepreneur, what I always do in my companies is I find like a simpler, faster way to get to the same goal. And if at the end of the day somebody says, "Well, you've only got like 95% of the goal achieved." I'll say, "I'll take it because I want 95% now is vastly better than 100% in some misty future." >> But there are those who are believe the way to get there is digitize your conneto, right? And um we've seen that in Drosophila. There are teams working on mice and then heading towards humans. Is that a strategy that you believe is worth pursuing or or not? Well, I don't consider myself a wise and old expert, but I I will say it is possible. And I've put my money where my mouth is
[00:36:00] because I've made, you know, multi-million dollar donations to Alor. Both Beina and I, you know, are >> Oh, yes. I've been Alor member for 20 years and um both of us are signed up to be fully cryionicized. >> Full body or just uh >> full body? Full body. >> Why? >> Because I can afford it. >> Okay. I mean, fair enough. Fair enough. I mean, the the thesis is we're going to be able to build you a better body in the future. Yeah. If you just have your >> mind still do that. They can still do do that, you know. And um I've been funding this prize at the National Space Society to uh to live on an O'Neal settlement in our lifetime. And the way to do it is to digitize yourself and then re uh generate yourself with a with a re with a rebody as well. And I've given all the numbers on YouTubes on how practical that is. So totally >> everybody welcome [snorts] to the health section of moonshots brought to you by Fountain Life. You know AI is impacting every aspect of our lives. How we teach our kids, how we do our business. But one of the most important things that AI can deliver to us is health. And one of
[00:37:00] the things I think about when you know shooting for 100 120 is am I going to have the cognitive health to be able to think clearly and keep my wits about me for the next 50 years. I'm joined here today by Dr. Dr. Don Mucalem, the chief medical officer of Fountain Life and a member of my Fountain Life medical team. Don, a pleasure. So, Don, talk to me about brain health. >> Brain health, you know, you're right. This is the number one concern people coming into Fountain Life have is, will I remember the name of my child in the face of my loved one. 45% of dementia cases are entirely preventable with lifestyle. And what was really intriguing to me, Peter, is that a quarter of our members had advanced brain age, but over 13 months of us really helping them live healthier lifestyles, eating healthier, moving their body regularly, and optimizing sleep. People overlook that so often, but that sleep optimization is critical for our brain health. What we showed is that we were able to improve the brain age in 46% of those individuals. That's
[00:38:02] a powerful number. >> That's amazing. You know, one of the things I love about Fountain is we're constantly searching the world for the most advanced therapeutics and bringing them to our members. So, for me, all of you, I hope that you appreciate the fact that you can become the CEO of your own health. You can make sure that you've got the cognitive clarity for the next 50 years. Come and check it out fountainlife.com/peter to learn more and become the CEO of your health. Now, back to the episode. Uh, let's go back to that topic of space. So you and I spent a good decade together in the 80s uh into the early 90s uh following the work that Dr. O'Neal uh was was putting forward. He was building mass drivers and envisioning O'Neal colonies. Um you know I had I met with Jared Isaacman last night there. >> Oh wonderful. What an amazing human being. >> And we just posted a an incredible podcast with him uh earlier this week. And uh the question becomes moon first,
[00:39:02] yes, but then do you go into the gravity well of Mars or do you go build O'Neal colonies? >> Thoughts? >> Uh my thoughts is are that I'm going to leave that to the experts. It really is beyond my competence. Um over the from the 80s when we we spent all our time with space settlements till now, I have become a total biotechnologist. So I know a lot about manufacturing a lot of organs. I'm not an expert on really whether we should stage first the moon, free space or Mars. I would probably my approach is to do all the above. If you can afford to do all the above, do all the above. Yeah. Take it all. Take it all. Own it. >> What did you admire most about Jerry about Dr. O'Neal? >> Wow. That's a deep question. I admired Thanks for asking that question, Peter. He's an important figure that people I want to I want to resurrect into the conversation here. >> I think I admired first and foremost most his practicality and that's just my
[00:40:02] own value structure. um when he came up with the idea of a mass driver, he then built a mass driver over in Ohio and I was there and I saw actual demonstration of it working when he said that the lunar uh regalith can give us all the mass we need for cosmic ray protection in a island 4 island 5 L4 L5 space settlement. He did all the numbers. He he ran all the numbers and showed you know engineering quantitatively that it was practical. Then he got that published in peer-review journal physics today. >> Yeah. >> So Jerry O'Neal was a very very practical guy. I visited his house in Princeton. He had a a train. I don't if you remember this he had like a model train running all through his house and all the bedrooms and rooms of his house. He built that whole train himself. He built as you know the early cyclrons at Princeton University. So, first and foremost, I admired him as a maker.
[00:41:01] Makers are my people. That's my favorite tribe. So, you know, he's a maker, a builder, practical man. >> Secondly, I admired his vision. I'm not a huge fan of just visionaries for visionary sake because they're on Skid Row. I mean, they just don't do anything but like mentally masturbate. But Jerry combined his building with his vision and actually made something. Third, I admired his courage >> to be a card carrying member of like the American Physical Society and then go out on a limb and say that we could um have a population of hundreds of billions of humans living in space and that doesn't even make a dent in the resources of the solar system, right? and later on explaining how we could go to with um self-replicating systems go to populate other star systems. >> Vanoyman probes. Yeah. >> Yeah. Vanoyman probes. That took a level of courage that um that I'm not sure I have and I don't I don't really know
[00:42:01] that I've met anybody with that level of courage other than Dr. O'Neal. >> Yeah. A brilliant man. Passed too soon. Um a couple of questions to to close us out here. Uh, you're 25 years old. You go and you're alive right now. Martin Rothblat, you go back. What would you do now if you didn't have your contacts, your current wealth and so forth? What would you be doing in 25 today? What would you focus on? What moonshots? I would focus on providing uh lev technology as quickly as possible. There is nothing that people will pay more for than life. >> Yes. >> Um each person's life is is as valuable as all of their assets that they have. If they are wanting to kill themselves, it's because they're not well.
[00:43:01] >> Okay? And they should have therapy to help them be well. So I would focus on working with me and other people to create a unlimited lev as soon as possible. I think one of the most elegant ways that we could contribute to doing that and um keep us outside of the Chinese US AI competition is with regenerating bodies because bodies always have a very short halflife. >> [clears throat] >> The reason I've developed all these different type of electric aircraft is because when we manufacture an organ, it's got a 12-hour halflife. It's not like a bottle of pills that can stay in your counter for a year. We have to once we make it, we have to give it to the person within 12 hours. So, you know, there's um in the world today, just in the OECD countries, there's 4 million people that die each year of organ disease. um twice that number of people of other illnesses. So the ability to
[00:44:01] come up with cures to keep people alive is limitless. AI exists to give us the endless wealth. Like Elon said, money will be irrelevant. Okay. So uh the AI will give us the endless wealth to pay the biotechnology companies to give us endless life. >> Yeah. I think there is no wealth greater than your health. At end of the day when I'm on stages talking to people uh of means and say how much of your wealth would you give for an extra 30 healthy years the answer honestly is almost all of it if not all of it >> right >> what good is the money if you're not alive to spend it >> yeah yeah so it it is the largest you know today for me AI and longevity are the two biggest markets on the planet >> and talk about awesomeness how cool is it that AI is here right now to give us the resources for endless life >> and you know I Look at my role as a distant number two to Elon. That Elon's role is to spread consciousness to the cosmos and my role is to provide endless
[00:45:02] endless life for that consciousness. >> You know, uh AI has given us so much uh and I think has the ability to do an extraordinary amount of good, but yet there's a lot of fear out there right now. Um and fear is a terrible place to face the future from. Uh what do you say to people listening who are fearful of AI, humanoid robotics, all these technologies? >> I say to people that fear are like cockroaches. Um they dominate in darkness and ignorance and as soon as you flip on the life light the cockroaches vanish. And so we are a scared we're scared of what we don't understand. So, we need to have open conversations about what is it that you're scared about with AI? How can we help alleviate those scare those fears? So, open authenticity. Uh, you know, I I think Mark Zuckerberg just did a great um op-ed piece in
[00:46:02] yesterday's Wall Street Journal that just addressed that very question. He said, you know, there is, you know, like Roosevelt said, there's nothing to fear but fear itself. Just talk about these things openly. My whole virtual human book talks about how we need good AI to be on top of bad AI. Of course, there's always going to be like, you know, bad players. That's um there's bad things in the universe. You can get hit by a a comet or or an asteroid, but we need good technology to counter the bad technology. And to be able to to shrink away from the most powerful tool that human consciousness has ever come up with is insanity. >> Yeah. Yeah, you gave an incredible closing uh graduation speech at USA UCLA this year where you got your doctorate degree. Congratulations on that. It's a beautiful I'm going to link to your your uh your speech in the notes. >> Um you gave a few powerful pieces of advice for entrepreneurs. Um I don't
[00:47:01] know if you recall those. I have some of them here, but I think that'd be a great way to close out. Uh we have a huge number of entrepreneurs in uh listening to us right now. Anything in particular want to hit? Yeah, I think you know, first of all, you know, be practical. Uh you don't want to be labeled a person who just thinks of ideas and and doesn't implement them. Uh the beauty of you, Peter, is like every idea you've had, you've implemented and you've made it real and then you've made it so that other people can make even more ideas real. I always refer to you as like the ultimate human enzyme. You speed up the rate of reaction of of of human creativity and technology. So my first advice is is to be practical. Uh secondly is try to accomplish something within a brief span of years because the way the human psyche is is it's difficult to get people to work for more than like a 5-year time frame on something. So come up with a project, a program, a technology, a service that can be completely commercialized within
[00:48:02] a five-year period and then ultimately make it something that everybody will look at and say this adds goodness to the universe. >> Add value to humanity. Remember one piece of advice you you said to me uh was successful people say no to most things. The most successful people say no to everything. I think that's a message of focus >> almost. So, but it was Warren Buffett who deserves the credit and and and like he said, the most successful people say no to almost everything. So, they still have a little bit that they say yes to. And um I try to I I if I could be a distant second other than Elon, I'd say next be a distant second to Warren Buffett. You know, great human being, genius at foreseeing so many technologies, you know, foundational investor in so many key companies. And that's where I am now. I have the blessing of getting enormous amounts of incoming and I do have to be disciplined and say no to almost everything. >> Well, thank you for pleasure. Thank you
[00:49:01] for saying yes to this >> to you, Peter. It's always a yes. I love you, brother. >> Thank you, my dear. >> Okay. >> All right. Be well. >> [music]