I've been working in AI for 42 years and this question is directed to my hero AWG. [music] I haven't been this excited since my wedding night to meet you, sir. >> I don't know how to take that [laughter] question. >> If I look at this progress, how close or how far are we to really say that the A is going to get consciousness? >> The top down theory says that we're like localized antenna for consciousness and we connect into it. But there's no reason why AI at some point can't tune into that same type of phenomena. >> I just turned 18 and I started an AI startup business with my dad. >> I hope a lot of 18-year-olds [music] listening are going to hear what you're doing and try and emulate you. >> I wish I was goddamn 18 today. We're working. We're working on it. >> Do you leave any room in your analysis for an all powerful, all knowing sort of ultimate intelligence? Either there is no God and we're just moving towards a wonderful future driven by technology or there's a simulation and in which case it kind of doesn't matter anyway.
[00:01:02] >> Now that's a moonshot ladies and gentlemen. >> This episode is brought to you by the Abundance Summit and Link Ventures. >> Everybody welcome to our first moonshots AMA. Uh hopefully we'll do this on a not too infrequent basis. can't promise the time right now, but it is wonderful to be spending time with all of you. We already have 300 people on the Zoom, over a thousand people registered and uh this is a chance for all of us to get a chance to meet you guys and um and really uh get feedback on uh on moonshots. Uh we've got here with me our very own ASI AWG, Alex. Hello. Good to see you, pal. You >> good to be here. You do not disappoint in your normal VR background there. And >> we do what we must because we can. >> Yes. And Dave, uh, here you are, your normal haunt. And Sem,
[00:02:00] >> normal hunt. >> Yes. See, where on the planet are you, pal? >> I'm home. I'm home. >> Amazing. >> We don't we don't even recognize it. It's so rare. >> I know. And everybody's like, where are you? >> Uh, well, everybody, uh, thank you. Um, you know, I I want to say that we read your comments and the outpouring of support and love means a huge amount to us. Um, and it really drives us to do all that we can do. And so, uh, our agenda here today is to answer your questions and we're going to do that, uh, as much as we can. Uh, use the raised hand emoji and we'll go person by person. I'll call out the name and you can unmute. You can also put questions in the chat and we'll try and monitor those. Great. Uh, and I'm going to ask my moonshot mates to keep our answers as succinct so we can get through as many as we can. And I think we scheduled this for an hour. We're going to go 90 minutes. Give you guys some extra time. Yes, we are recording this. So
[00:03:01] everybody, if your camera is on and you're speaking, you're being recorded. We may we may post some of this. So, please, if you don't want to be recorded, turn your camera off and don't ask questions. Okay, with that, uh Dave Morris, uh your question, where are you calling in from? >> Golden Gate Bridge, obviously. >> Oh, there you go. Yeah. Well, it's in Sydney, Australia, so it doesn't really look like that behind me. [laughter] >> Good morning all. Um and uh firstly thanks for everything um that you guys do and it's it's such a refreshing um podcast and and I'm sure everyone on today is is in the gs with that. Um quick question from um my side of things. Um I feel like Australia is really lacking and falling behind the AI space. Um it just having conversations and to Sem's comments the other day in the uh the latest podcast when he talks to CEOs and and that um everyone feels like they're too busy to even think about it. they're just doing a normal
[00:04:00] thing um in their businesses and I think that's the biggest thing that I'm struggling with at the moment and be great to get your feedback on that about how to break through the um the challenge of um you know the rush that will come down the track. Um but it's more this initial side of things that I think is um is really a struggle at the moment and um you know as a single entrepreneur that that's probably the biggest challenge that I'm facing at the moment. >> Sim over to you. So um uh first of all great to be with all of you. This is amazing. Uh so really thrilled when we get actual faces to names and comments etc etc. I wouldn't worry about too much whether Australia is behind. You know when you're if in an exponential age feeling behind can feel terrifying. But the good news is you can leaprog really quickly. And I do I talk to CEOs a lot who are like oh my god how are we going to keep up? Especially in emerging markets in places like Australia, in the can in the in the US or Europe or Japan,
[00:05:00] we have to unlearn 50 years of Harvard MBA thinking and relearn new models, right? Whereas in emerging markets and places that are a little bit distance, you can literally jump over everybody else. The infrastructure is kind of mostly there now, right? Uh it really comes down to completely a mindset problem and and you know, Australians are pretty crazy at it. We we know that for sure. So there's no reason now not to kind of jump over that and think through that. Also, you have the opportunity in being a little bit further away of really experimenting with new structures and and and that gives you a place to play and a playground to kind of tinker. The last thing I would say is for everybody uh involved, we tend to overchedu ourselves. Uh you want to make sure you create deliberate slack in the system. give yourself 10 or 20% of your time to just not have anything scheduled to allow uh experimentation, playing with new tools, meeting new people, etc. If you wait till you have uh spare time,
[00:06:01] you'll never catch up. You'll never stop. >> Thank you so much. Let's move on to next. Cynthia Cynthia Smith. >> Hi there. It's so great to be with you guys. I'm such a big fan. And I'm also uh Peter I found out about you through Stephen Cutotler because I've been in Catalyst and working in that domain. So I have made a living as a coach and consultant and pivoting as fast as I can. um the the world that I have have worked in and what I'm fascinated about is all the inert stuff, the mindset stuff, people's capacity to learn and absorb and and dance with change and um it it just you know we we're at this situation where things are evolving exponentially and as fast as we can adapt AI and whatnot there is there seems seems to be a limitation on how fast we can absorb
[00:07:00] information and how fast >> our input output mechanisms have have a baud rate right >> yeah they do they do so I'd love to hear about what you know >> that whole interface type thing yeah >> yeah so it's it's the realm of of there two there are two interfaces are going to change thing one is when your own AI understands your desires your needs what's going on what you know what you don't know and is able to filter and summarize for you better than you can filter and summarize for yourself. So that's one interface that will make things more efficient. The second of course is BCI um the brain computer interface right and right now if I asked you to think about a rabbit uh a preformed concept of a rabbit comes into your head whatever it is there's the potential in the future where BCI will help you by providing preformed concepts uh that uh you never learned but they're known
[00:08:01] by an AI ecosystem out there and delivering them directly to you. So, I'm an investor and adviser to three BCI companies right now. Ray Kerszswall just introduced me to another one, which it sounds amazing. Um, and I'm meeting the CEOs and looks like an incredible woman. She's a member of my abundance 360 community. And so, I think we're going to start to see some pretty uh significant and rapid advances uh in BCI. You know, we have 100 trillion 100 trillion uh synaptic connections, 100 billion neurons that we're limited by. Imagine if you could have a third corpus colossum, a third part of your brain exteriorized. So I think those are the two things that are going to help us. Um and and Alex, you're the one who first said, you know, we're going to either couple with AI and ride along with it or be left behind >> or both. >> Or both. >> Both both could happen in the same world. Both probably will happen in the same world. Yeah. We'll have BCIs. We'll
[00:09:00] have full dive VR. We'll have uploading both of humans and non-human animals. I think all of these will coexist over the next few years. >> So Cynthia, that's a quick answer for you. I hope that helps a little bit. I'm going to keep us marching as many people as we can if that's okay. >> Yeah. Yeah. Well, the the pitfall that I think is um I I fall into is at least right now the LLMs are prediction machines. And I'm more interested in the emergent latent space ahas off thebeaten path kind of sparking creativity. So >> we just recorded an episode today that's coming out tomorrow that that says well AIs are actually probably being inventive. Uh and so prepare prepare for that. >> Also may maybe Peter just take the bait once and for all. This is a misconception. uh reasoning models at at this point I I don't think it's accurate to characterize them as prediction machines or stochastic parrots. They've
[00:10:00] been so thoroughly reinforcement fine-tuned off of reasoning challenges to say that they're prediction machines is tantamount to to saying basically that they're incapable of novelty or insight which is most definitively not true at this point. >> Yeah. Yeah. Great. Thank you. >> This episode is sponsored by Google for startups. Think about this for a second. >> [music] >> You now have access to the same generative AI models that cost hundreds of millions of dollars to train. Google's startup tactical guide for generative media gives you complete blueprint [music] for deploying Google DeepMinds models in production. Images, video, audio, all of it. Real architecture, real results. Find the link in the show notes below. >> All right. Uh John, you're next. Where are you calling from? What's your question? >> Sydney, Australia. Peter. Um, yeah, it's >> all right. Australians are in power here. That's great. Yeah. >> Of power to to everyone. It's pretty cool. Like I got a couple of chances to
[00:11:01] speak with you um on the um AMA for for your book with Steven Cotler. So, it's great to get the opportunity to chat again and I've been following Moonshots uh for a while now. It's been inspiration since I went to a Singularity University uh gig about what 10 years ago uh in Australia. So it's been an inspiration. So my my question um and a fan of very but my question for yourself and especially around longevity because that's an area that's uh uh been a focus and I've been guiding a couple of doctors got to speak to you on the AMA last time as well in Greece in in Athens. Um and sort of you reached out you said fellow Greek. So that's I remember that sort of conversation. >> I see that. Um, and so I'm a founder of an innovation company about 10 years ago called My Brainwave. And so like to help people make ideas real. So that's been a real passion. And so one of the things I'd like to understand, you know, what role do you see trusted local physicians
[00:12:00] playing in bringing u fountain lights because I see the the ads each time and it's really promoting awareness of longevity. So bringing physicians um you know together playing a role around fountain lives longevity approach to bringing it to an international audience um and this is a great forum for that. Uh so that would be keen cuz Eglley is the clinic in in Greece and and they're pretty keen on taking some of those learnings and bringing it to their their audience in in Greece. Um yeah so what role do you see >> to answer that quick? We're Fountain Life is be going to begin um a uh a franchising model. >> So right now we've built five and we're building two more in the US and then we have a partnership to put them into a group of resorts called the estates. But what I really want to do is enable uh the operating system and the AI systems we built to be franchised. I think that's probably at least six to nine
[00:13:02] months away from being an open call for interest, but I, you know, I've been to Greece to talk with a number of people about getting a Fountain Life Center in there. I'm hoping that Greece will set its purpose beyond just olives and shipping to uh to longevity as well. So, um I'm a fan of that. >> So, thank thank you, John. >> No, thank you, Peter. appreciate >> and I apologize I we have we we have uh 80 hands raised so I'm going to keep moving us along here uh and no disrespect everybody Matt hello where you calling from your question please >> um I'm calling from Terode Indiana um I was on another AMA with with you before and I fumbled through my question so I actually made a script so I don't mess up everybody's [laughter] >> take your time >> my question is is really for myself but I feel like there are some Australians on here. So, I think that my question is
[00:14:00] for myself and and people around the world and particularly in middle America. Um I I really believe like a lot of like what you guys are saying and like I love like when Dave talks about like with energy about um you know these startups and everything like that, but um my question really breaks down into a couple parts. So, you know, a lot of the conversation is focused around the runway for 22 year olds maybe working 80hour weeks, 80 hour work weeks. What is the playbook for kind of experienced mid-career professionals in places like the Midwest who have deep domain expertise, the energy and the desire to build, but also have families, mortgages, real constraints like maybe a location >> and then, you know, how do we how do we best leverage these exponential tools to break through without like kind of blowing up a baseline security? >> Dave, you want to try that? >> Yeah, absolutely. We had we had a great unit on today's podcast that'll be out tomorrow about this franchise
[00:15:01] opportunity that Tesla just threw out there. But I think you'll learn about it tomorrow. But I keep your eyes open for more and more of the AI labs giving you a playbook to get involved and succeed through a lot of it is through franchise models, other is through data collection models. Um so those are going to create opportunities. I think while that's happening getting really familiar with the models, you know, just just, you know, build your own skippy, hack around at night, you know, try and create, you know, some of these uh revenue generating opportunities that you brainstorm with the AI and just just fabricate it. It may not be what you want to do for a career, but it's a great way to generate cash flow and get involved with the models, but I suspect that this year there'll be on the order of maybe 10 to 100 opportunities where the playbook is handed to you and the AI labs are are really really eager for these things to succeed to bring more of the population into this, you know, into this universe. You're going to find that
[00:16:01] very few people around you jump on the opportunity. And so the other thing you can do is try to network with. You know, Drew Hston, the the Dropbox founder said, "You become the average of the five people you spend the most time with. It's just a fact. Don't fight it." So find the five people that you most want to be like, and you you may not find them geographically near you. >> So try and create three or four or five on the internet somehow that you can bond with on exactly this topic. >> And and real quick, I'll just add, you know, get to your favorite large language model. describe your life in detail. I have these obligations. I have these kids. I have these mortgages. I have all of these things. Here's my expertise. Here's what I do like what you just opened up with and ask it. Brainstorm with it. >> Yeah. >> On the margin, how much time, how much money, what can I do? >> You know, when when you're when you're young, you can take more risk, but when you're older, you have a lot more leverage. So, you can leverage use that in a heavy way. The the other thing you can do is if you
[00:17:00] go to mercur.com and you say look I have domain knowledge how is this of value and you just throw that into the system and wait and see what the AI comes back to you with there will be more domain specific mors coming out but that's a good one to start with >> y and any knowledge that you have is unique so please take advantage of it anyway thank you so much let's go to uh Ramani hi Romani where are you calling from >> hi beer um I'm right here in Corning, New York, but I live in Hunden, Virginia. I came over here to see the falls and stuff. I'm 60 years old, but whenever I can't wait to listen to your podcast when I do that, I become 16 year old. I want to start off with that. Thank you so much. Unbelievable. Simply beyond beyond I can't even express what this means to us. My soul for the family and my friends. Thank you. That's what I want to first of all start off given you know I can I can see that the GPUs acting as a sys knife we've got the wafer scale engine from cerebras we've
[00:18:01] got h.com's the sus the frontier inference cluster coming in and then tallest chip which is acquired by AMD right the HC1 if I look at this progress it it just makes me think how how close or how far are we to really say that you know we that the A is going to get consciousness you know I'm looking at au.com's the the behavior simulation at scale right the world right so can you just explain your thoughts on where we [laughter] are approaching I'm very eager thank you >> okay >> such an easy question >> sim or Alex you want to take consciousness with which you guys want to >> very quickly uh there's two theories of consciousness we've talked about this it's either an emergent property based on some sort of complexity in which case AI could get there the top down theory says that we're like localized antenna for consciousness and we connect into it. And as as we're getting more and more evidence, it seems the latter is more likely to happen. But there's no reason why AI at some point
[00:19:02] can't tune into that same type of phenomena. So I think of it as a century problem more than anything else. >> Okay. Also, we don't know enough to answer that yet. Uh and what what I will express confidence in is I I think it's very likely neuroscience will advance so radically in the next call it five years and I think that's a conservative outerbound that if we have this discussion again 5 years from now we'll be able to confidently even define what we're talking about uh and then answer the question once we know how to pose it in a rigorous way which I don't think to my knowledge no one uh including Seline knows how to pose rigorously at the moment. >> Agreed. Wow, >> a big a big question. Um, and and I'm going to move us along if I could again. Uh, now there are 97 hands raised. Okay. Uh, John, [laughter] we're diverging. >> Hello, Peter. Calling from Port St. Joe, Florida. >> Okay. >> I'd like to tell you, longtime uh
[00:20:02] podcast listener and I really appreciate all the selflessness you guys have and all the hours you put in in uh helping us all be. people are recognizing that we we put a lot of time in and we love it. Um yeah, we do >> mostly most of the time we love it. Sometimes holy crap [laughter] >> it's almost like a full-time job maybe. >> Oh my god. [clears throat] >> So I'm a member of the fountain life community and real vision and Sem's uh making luck or finding luck and so I love these AMA formats. I appreciate it. Uh so my question ties into uh the Frontier Labs keep saying that they're star for proprietary operational data and I'm a civil engineer with 40 years experience and I have 30 years of complete project records for my company not just final drawings but like the full change from the problem definition calculations permitting revisions the construction photos everything to the outcome I I know that this kind of data is is valuable so Merore and Scale have
[00:21:02] both expressed interest but it's been weeks and nothing is closing. Is there a more direct way to get this pri priority data set uh like this in front of the labs, you know, actually training on the domain data without selling the archive outright or having to build the product company around it myself because it's awfully hard to rag all that data. >> Dave, thoughts, please? Yeah, you know, we we've been reached out to by a bunch of the companies that you just mentioned, plus OpenAI, plus a couple of others, all saying we want to we want to write 5105 million checks to buy corporations that have data outright. And so, the first thing you want to do is make it easy for them to sign a check. That's it's amazingly weird because you think writing a $10 million check is hard, right? Well, for them, right now, it's the easiest thing they can do. Having a conversation is much more expensive than writing the check. So put put yourself into a package that's easy for them to sign and and receive. Um the other thing is when we were talking to Kevin Wheel, you know, we podcasted him twice and he told the
[00:22:02] story about he interviewed OpenAI. >> He was a chief product officer at OpenAI just >> chief CPO at OpenAI. He he interviewed there and then he didn't hear back for weeks. So he assumed that they didn't care about him and he he kind of moved on. Then he bumped into Sam somewhere like a on the street and Sam said, "Where the hell are you? Why are you not in the office?" He said, "I didn't even get a call back." He said, "Just show up for Christ's sake. It's chaos. Show up and start collecting your paycheck." And so he's like, "Okay." So he went to the building. So I know that's kind of tricky advice, but they're incredibly insanely busy and it's all chaos. But if you can physically get on the ground with whoever's in charge, just go to SF, find that person who's doing the acquisitions, and meet at the coffee shop outside their building, and the odds of something happening go way, way, way up if you just buy the flight and go. >> Your advice is brilliant. put the, you know, create a due diligence package on the web that provides everything easy to
[00:23:00] see and what your what your price tag is and just make it easy for the person to like say, "Okay, this looks great. Yes, I want it." Boom. >> Yeah. Yeah. They won't give prices and that's that's the problem here is they're the experts. How do how do we price this data? >> You decide what it's worth to you. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Yeah, I think I think if you put this veneer of like a banker look around your price tag and say this is what it's worth and this is what it costs, they won't have the time to see through it. They'll just say, "Okay, sounds like you know what you're talking about and you you decide what's fair." They just need >> to make it easy for them. >> Yeah. Well, I I've made it more like a salesunnel. I have regular contacts with them, but right now it's really only emails and then when they want to video chat with me, they send me a link and uh that just doesn't seem real satisfying. But having the chaos behind the scenes, you explaining that that seems to make a lot more sense. >> Understand what they're going through. Anyway, thank you so much. Let's go to YC next. >> Good morning. >> Yeah. >> Um, so my [clears throat] question is a
[00:24:00] little bit off from the singularity, which I love your podcast and I've encouraged my family to move away from all in to your podcast. >> Oh, come on. They're great, too. >> They're great, too. But you know it's different and sometimes it can get a little political. But anyway, so my question is um if hypothetically I was in the public sector, I know there are a lot of people so I'm going to try to ask this really quickly and I spent time let's say at Google and X um dealing with tech regulations especially risk assessments and if I were back in the public sector and looking at AI risk assessments and how to look at it from a public sector se sector point of view how to frame risks and whether to look at it from res residual risk or use cases. is um how how would you suggest approaching it? Obviously, you know, there's a risk of doing something too granular where you and or something that's too bare bones that won't really get at the patching that might be
[00:25:00] required if something were to happen. >> It's such a great question. Alex, you're going to be chomping at the bit. I know. Alex. >> Yeah, I think uh so depending on whether we're talking about in the US federal versus state versus municipal government >> US federal. >> Okay. >> Yeah. I I think the the risk at this point is overregulation, not under regulation. So if if I were spending a lot of time uh on the the government employee side right now, that would be my primary target. I am I'm deathly concerned that we will overregulate our way into losing a super intelligence race with China. That will also, as I frequently remark, more than 150,000 people on Earth die every day. And probably the single best antidote to that will be super intelligence for solving medicine. And we harm ourselves by overregulating super intelligence just like in Yeah. >> Yeah. Sorry, just so quickly if it wasn't necessarily regulatory but just
[00:26:01] sort of in terms of a risk scenario like if there was a breach or something happened how to identify and quickly mitigate that kind of risk which we know has already happened right with myth mythos and everything else. So uh if hypothetically we're one step behind in the government than you are let's say in open AI or than you guys are having seen these risks you know just breaking out um what would be the best approach this is not regulations so this is nothing to do with congress this is about just you know simple but necessary steps if you will to address >> I'd say hands off >> there there are so many different ways like the the industry is advancing through defensive of co-caling right now and very well-intentioned uh interests on the government side could try to it again with the best of intentions try to protect what they think is security or public safety and then end up hamstringing our ability to
[00:27:00] solve honest to goodness important problems. So I would say to to first order single best bet is find the the right path to uh a regulation light regime and let this let the industry to the best of its ability sort itself out on this front. Let me throw some personal advice on top of that too because we saw you know David Saxs from the All-In podcast get dragged into the White House and unbelievably effective in that role for a year and a huge fan of his. But then our friend of the pod Alvin Grlin declared himself the top expert on China AI race and now he got dragged in for the United Nations meetings on September 24th as a top adviser to the White House. So, I think in both those cases, you want to declare your expertise and say, "I am within federal government the go-to on boom and and predict what you think is going to come next in the risks and make sure that you study up and understand that topic because very few people really master a topic." But if you if you say,
[00:28:01] "Yeah, I what I think is going to happen next is a cyber breach, you know, in the treasury or, you know, just predict what it'll be." declare yourself the person in federal government working on that. Get to know the vendors that are related to it and all of the, you know, the details related to it and then publicize yourself as that expert. Then when the moment arrives, your name will be at the top of the queue and you'll get pulled into the solution. Very rarely will the federal government react proactively to a future risk. It's crazy, but at least you can be first on the ground when it does hit and get pulled in right away to the usually it's the crisis team. The the other approach is also to form a team and red team it on a constant basis. So the team starts thinks non-stop about what would they do if they were on on offense and that gives you insights to think about. >> You know also nowadays writing documents is so cheap and easy because you know you can use AI as your your writer. You know, if you if you identify like the top 10 most likely threats that are going to happen and write documents on
[00:29:00] all of them with your name on them and just just have them online ready to go, then when they go into panic mode, they'll be like, "Does anyone around here know about blah?" They'll search it up and it'll come right to you. >> Awesome. Thank you, YC. Richard, your question, please. >> Hello, everyone. Uh, I'm Richard. I'm from Brownsville, Texas, right by Starbase. Just graduated high school a few months ago. uh just turned 18 and I started an AI startup business with my dad. He has a little bit more experience in connections, but uh I'm the tech guy behind it. Um and in Brownsville, we see a very big gap between where people want to use AI in business and where they think it's just optional. Where do you guys think that the tipping point is going to come when everyone wants to jump on and how should I prepare for an influx of a ton of people? I'm old enough to know and maybe your dad is too. When when the internet came along, there were people who didn't adopt it for like 15 years. So, I [clears throat] mean, but obviously it's it's the interface to everything. AI is going to
[00:30:00] be the same way. So, what I'm telling people is look, don't fight any missionary battles. What happens is AI tends to club people over the head and they wake up one day with this hallelujah moment. You want to be there on that day, but you can't you can't force it. You can't, you know, force the horse to drink. So when they're there, you want to know that they just had the hallelujah moment. That's why we built a holiday downstairs. Actually, it's supposed to be a mind changer. Person walks in, they come out a different person because they realize everything that's suddenly possible. Or on the podcast that'll come out tomorrow, you'll see this world model where literally every corner, every street, every car in New York is modeled. And that for a lot of people will be the eye openener. But I I think there'll be a lot of companies that never cross that or you know decades from now haven't crossed the line. The world is just going to pass them by. So my my first advice is don't force people but be there on the moment that they have the hallelujah hallelujah moment >> and congratulations uh and what you're doing Richard. That's fantastic. I I hope a lot of
[00:31:01] 18-year-olds listening are going to hear what you're doing and try and emulate you. >> I wish I was goddamn 18 today. >> Yeah. >> What an opportunity. Yeah, me too. >> We're working. We're working on it. [laughter] >> All right, Pierce, your question, please. >> First off, it's great to be here. Um, I'm I'm also 18, so I'm in Newport Beach, uh, California. I just graduated high school as well. Um, and you know, I've been working on autonomous drones for construction for the past, you know, several months. Uh, developing, you know, my own CAD, my own software and, uh, stuff like that. Um my question would be, you know, as an 18-year-old founder trying to uh build hardware specifically, how can we get the attention of, you know, venture capitalists to take us seriously and also see the vision, you know, in the next 5 to 10 years where hardware is becoming more fundable and there seems to be more opportunities uh within this space where we can continue to grow,
[00:32:01] especially as you know, young founders. >> Dave, that's a question for you, pal. Yeah, that's a that's a great question. So hardware, you know, traditionally is hard. The VCs are really coming around to it now because it really is the future of the next five years of investing, including our funds. Um, I think we almost always look for a team that has gelled. So, you know, first first and foremost, if you have two or three co-founders, um, I think when you're doing hardware, uh, you need bigger checks. you need you need a bigger founding, you know, check and you need some kind of a sense of like how am I going to get a prototype or a beta out to market. So, make sure you ask for enough money to get over that like I'm in the market threshold. Um, so, uh, construction drones is a beautiful, beautiful topic. Uh, one of the things we said earlier on today's podcast is there's massive amounts of corporate money out there looking for a home. Uh, one of my um, development partners is a real estate guy. He owns like 10 15
[00:33:00] hotels, a whole bunch of all of Kelly's roast beef. Uh, and he's really interested in construction automation as a long-term trend. He would probably be a perfect co-investor, founding day and development partner. So, a couple of VCs combined with two or three industry players that see the AI vision, maybe podcast fans, moonshot fans that are into construction, um would be the perfect like development syndicate. And I I wouldn't race to like hacking something together in the basement. I would race to building that syndicate to get to critical mass. Otherwise, you tend to lose too much time. You just you really want that investor group, co-founder group to all gel on the same day. And if if for whatever whatever reason it can't coalesce, find somebody who's already over the threshold. Down in in Southern California, there's a bunch of companies that we've invested in that are doing rockets and doing drones. Uh if you get on board with one of them, uh get through like six to nine months of growth and then spin out.
[00:34:00] That's another way to try and get on the map. You can't just boot it up. >> I would also my first question to a group building hardware is what have you built so far? Not what have you built so far on your current vision. Show me that your team is able to build stuff. So at a minimum I would if you don't have if you haven't done that already denovo I would find a couple of team members who have so that I'm clear you know you've got some experience in building hardware that is going to apply to this. >> One one last thought is I wouldn't think of yourself uh or limit yourself to just think of yourself as a hardware company. Think of yourself as an intelligence company whose products happen to have atoms in it and that mindset will be critical. >> Awesome. Best of luck, Pierce. >> Thank you, >> Daniel. Over to you. >> I love [clears throat] having a couple 18-year-olds on this asking questions. That's awesome. Daniel, >> I'm coming in on the other end of that spectrum. So, yeah. So, uh Richard and it's like I'm on the other end of that. I've been in this industry, these
[00:35:00] industries, all the way back to chip manufacturing and and you know, all kinds of stuff. We anyway, all the way through video, games, and other things. So, I'm coming at it late in life, but I feel 18 now. Um, I found your podcast. Um, everything, not only we're going to get telemer to go shorter, and we're going to get younger, but just what you guys leave, the energy you guys leave. I just want to again say thank you to that. It's a amazing time to be alive. So, I'm excited for everybody. >> Amen. question is this is I I really believe that this is going to spur and we already see it in some of the podcasts out there that this is going to be the next renaissance. How do you see I know Abundance 360 is an example. I know that you're doing stuff with EXO some I know you guys have some um programs in place to bring bring people together like Plato's Academy like getting people likeminded and in the same room. How do you see this happening in the future so you can Ed Catmill can find his John Lacader and Steve Waznjak can find his Steve Jobs? Where do you guys see these uh people colliders coming in the future and how do you see yourselves as sort of part of the facilitation? >> Yeah, and there was a great question posted a little bit ago about can we create a community around moonshots
[00:36:01] where folks can find each other and so forth and and uh I promise we will look into that and we're we're looking to get your ideas um here on this. Uh See, any thoughts here? >> Uh a couple of things. one is uh you know the uh moonshots summits and and the moonshots live programs are going to be critical right I think the other thing uh if for the couple of people mentioned the luck thing we're actually finding ways of connecting people orthogonally as AI comes along the human connection becomes more and more important so we're facilitating serendipity amongst people and so that's a pretty wild thing we're attempting we're in the early stages of playing with that seeing how because AI can find orthogonal connection between people in a way that we normally can't right and so we're looking to look at do that we'll have at some point John Helon where we figured out a way of both measure defining luck and measuring it which gives you a pretty interesting feedback loop which is a big claim to make so that's just a separate thing but
[00:37:00] I think if you stay focused in the community we should obviously create a community bulletin board and so on and Peter we'll we could talk about that offline about how we can connect because connecting the community together will be the best place to find peer-to-peer uh folks of high interest and the same abundance vision that we all have. >> Yeah. Let me just say what what See said uh a minute ago. If you're able to make it to Moonshots Live in LA on September 25th, please do. Uh, it's going to be a massive networking event of fellow moonshots, but it's also builders and creators and people to start efforts with and to find what Dave or I think Dave said earlier, you know, your average five individuals, right? You want to uplevel who you're spending time with, you believe me, you'll find people uplevel with there. Thank you, Daniel. Uh, Scott, over to you. >> Okay. Uh, I'm a deep sea diver. Uh, originally from Omaha, Nebraska. I moved down to Louisiana in 1996.
[00:38:02] I switched over to Deep Sea Robots, ROVs, right around just right around 2000. Um, so there's a lot of things. Um, I have a big strong background, I guess, in electronics. And, um, I got wind of you guys, I guess, in February, and you guys have been like my my shoulder to lean on cuz Louisiana, they don't even know what a token is, you know? They don't know what a data center is. And it's it's it's the truth till SpaceX just came in. And I mean, we got $250 billion dollars that's dropped in here now. And >> you know, [clears throat] I I kind of knew it was coming and we dug in and we're the first AI native business. And um we're we're going to focus on uh bottlenecks basically uh CDUs and TCS's and the whole cooling part. But uh I've been able to get with the you know I watch all you guys um and uh it's just really cool. Uh I'm able to change now
[00:39:02] and my my career is totally different now. I'm uh openmp compute.org I'm I [clears throat] think I'm in four papers now and for the cooling part of all that and that's >> awesome. the hyperscalers are using, you know, and that's things I would never do before. And I wrote a few white papers, too, for Louisiana, why everybody's coming here, because we got all the natural gas. And, you know, there's there's more natural gas lines that'll go around the earth twice. And [clears throat] that's why Louisiana is going to be, I feel, like the next big spot. >> Amazing, Scott. >> You guys got me You guys got me set up. [clears throat] >> This episode is brought to you by Blitzy. Autonomous software development with infinite code context. Blitzy uses thousands of specialized AI agents that think for hours to understand enterprisecale code bases with millions of lines of code. Engineers start every development sprint with the Blitzy platform, bringing in their development requirements. The Blitzy platform
[00:40:01] provides a plan, then generates and pre-ompiles code for each task. >> [music] >> Blitzy delivers 80% or more of the development work autonomously while providing a guide for the final 20% of human development work required to complete the sprint. [music] Enterprises are achieving a 5x engineering velocity increase when incorporating Blitzy as their preIDE development tool, pairing it with their coding co-pilot of choice to bring an AI native SDLC into their org. Ready to 5x your engineering velocity? Visit blitzy.com to schedule a demo and start building with Blitzy today. [music] >> Let's continue with the AMA questions. John Reagan. >> Hello. Hello. John Rean from Ry New York. Thanks for thanks for having me. Uh infinite thanks to you guys to the Dyson Swarm and beyond. I'm I'm thrilled to be able to mention the Dyson Swarm first after 47 minutes into this. So
[00:41:00] [laughter] that's a present. But but I remember guys specifically uh early spring you guys did a an episode and Dave was upset because some some letter came in saying that you wanted everyone to be an entrepreneur and they felt slighted. And I was so offended by that because you guys have been so giving in your knowledge and your encouragement that I actually stayed up all night and started working on my company which is called tugboat caregiving.com which was inspired I take care of uh three loved ones for eight plus years. Um, and the question is, I'm trying to get the caregivers ready to ride the wave of the supersonic tsunami, but they're in they're exhausted and they're in crisis mode. How do you think I can influence them to get engaged with the platform and spend more time to prepare
[00:42:01] for the next emergency? >> Yeah, great question. And caregivers do get exhausted, right? We've all had that experience in our lives with with parents or grandparents and it's a it could be a full-time job. Uh, anybody want to take that off? >> Well, hey, what I find, you know, in the physical world, everything is lagging a little bit, but everybody has planning, you know, and so planning is a great place for people to get started with AI. So, within caregiving, if you said, look, I know you're exhausted at the end of the day. How could we have saved an hour or two today through better foresight, better planning, better utilization of the time we do have? Okay, let's use AI agents to optimize that so that we get all familiar with it, start to appreciate it. But a lot of people in in industries like that, they're looking for a road map. And if just one person like you can create the road map for everybody else, then they'll follow the road map once you've created it. And I really love your comment, by the way. It bothers the heck out of me when we get negative feedback
[00:43:01] in the chat, but then when I look at the data that we just saw, we're actually talking to 98% of the people like you that we want to talk to and of course the 2% rant and rave and and we overreact to that sometimes. But really really appreciate your comment. But anyway, my my advice is start with the virtual stuff. So planning is a good one. also like you know a lot of places can have AI assisted things on the walls like like voices that you can talk to for self-service that's also a great starting point and then everybody gets addicted to the AI and then they realize oh wait we can roboticize things we can we can there's so much we can do once we we're familiar with it >> you know I imagine the idea of having a caregiver and or or prompting a caregiver to take the time to describe their day what they do like keep a log minute to minute and enter it into whatever your favorite free or lowcost LLM is and ask it for advice. You know, what could I do that
[00:44:01] would make my day more efficient, make my day more joyful, right? Um I think those are important things because like you'll get answers uh and then you'll choose that. Hey, that one sounds good. I haven't thought about that one, you know. >> Thank you so much, guys. I'll see you on the 25th. >> Awesome. See you there. Look forward to it. >> All right, Patrick, you're in the next contestant on the Price is Right. >> Hi. Good afternoon, everybody. Thanks for taking the time to have a chat. So, it's been interesting conversation, but I feel a lot of time we're really missing out on something that's important, and that's children. So, I'm an educator. I spend a lot of my time in classrooms, and I can tell you right now, I go into a classroom of 5-year-olds and six-year-olds, and it looks like the 1960s. Nothing has changed. They're doing it the same way. We talk about things like post AGI. We're talking about cognitive uh labor being lost. Right now, these children are still still living like they are in
[00:45:00] the past. So, my question here is to you guys, do we need a curriculum anymore? Do we need a certain type of learning or are we talking about passion now? Should these kids be finding out what they want to do in a future where there may not be jobs? So, I'm I'm super interested to hear what you think about this. Thanks, >> Lim. Over to you. >> Yeah, I mean, uh, trying to keep this concise will be tricky. Let me make three quick points here. First, your your comment is dead on. We're still teaching people the way we taught them 150 years ago. Forget 20th century. We're still in the 19th century in many places. Number two, uh teaching content essentially becomes out of date. A child with an AI today in an hour can learn what they could learn sitting in a classroom for the whole day. That impedance mismatch will break the existing system. The question becomes then what comes next? And I think the obvious uh place to think about that is
[00:46:00] Peter and I are doing this with our kids is to say, you know, forget getting an education on the supply side where you become a doctor, a lawyer, an engineer, and then you try and go and find demand for that supply side skill in the job marketplace because a we don't know what a job looks like, b we don't know what the demand will look like. go to the demand side, tell the kids to get excited about a problem and then go find from that vantage point of an MTP or you want to solve a major problem then find the skills and capabilities and techniques that's starting to happen in charter schools and certain uh so that plus say 21st century skills which is called the six C's if you can get your head around that th that combination will turn out to be the future over the next few decades of education until we figure out what the hell happens in post AGI world. >> Yeah. >> Not that we know what AGI is. [laughter] >> Thank you. Thank you, Sim, for not disappointing. Uh Patrick, go check out something called TKS.orld. It's a a
[00:47:00] group of that I'm involved with. It's basically, you know, Alpha School has gotten a huge amount of uh of good credit and and name brand out there and Mckenzie Price is a is a is a friend. We've done a podcast with them. Uh it's a a private school. TKS is an overlay over mostly high school age 13 to 18. And their mission and what you know Sim and I talk about is help the child find their purpose, help them shape their mindset, help them learn AI tools and help them become entrepreneurs, right? And your your purpose if you get your purpose and I wish it for everybody here listening. If you don't know your purpose, your mission is to find your purpose. Right? Mark Twain said, "There are two important days in your life in your life. The day you were born, the day you find out why." If you know what your purpose is, your your north star, you're then intrinsically motivated to go learn what you need to learn to go and implement your purpose, right? Alex
[00:48:01] and I talk about this in in one sense and solve everything. So, um, anyway, I I hope that's a little bit useful for you. >> Yeah, stick with the mission to that that the children are everything. I mean, getting this right is the most important mission you could possibly have. And and we we know the curriculum is going to become irrelevant, but we also know the kids need each other and they need school more than ever before to come out as normal, happy, healthy, functional adults. And so somewhere in there, there's an answer. It's a really hard problem. And uh but it's it's critically important to get it right. So appreciate the the thought. >> Yeah. Just just one last thing. I I closely follow Immad and his sovereign idea of a sovereign agent. I'm wondering if we can apply that to kids. >> Should kids have their own sovereign agent from the age of five that sticks with them? >> Yes. It's called The Young Primmer. Uh read Neil Stevenson's Diamond Age. If you have not read Diamond Age yet, I highly recommend it. It's a vision of
[00:49:01] what's to come. All right. Uh Rod. >> Hi, Peter. Thank you. I'm Rod McDonald from uh Kquitlam, British Columbia and I retired a couple of years ago. I was uh trained as a psychiatric social worker but I went into management positions for other disability groups. So my question or my query is is to ask all of you to speculate [snorts] a lot for what AI can do for people with disabilities. So, for example, with um psych uh psychotic illnesses like schizophrenia, I did a chat GPT uh search on the medications currently being used and there's some of them are the same as when I was starting over 30 years ago. You know, they can be helpful, but they have a they're still a rather blunt force when it comes to side effect profile. So I'm really hoping a um AGI or what have you will assist with development of pharmaceuticals that are much more friendly to the physiology of people than two issues I've also other
[00:50:01] areas I've worked in like people with physical disabilities what can they expect from AI and then also uh a final group I I used to work with is people with brain injuries you know one of the things that's part of the opiate crisis or the fentanyl crisis is that we started to see with ABI is that a lot of micronuronal damage uh kind of walking wounded sorts. You might not necessarily when you see them might not know that they have significant neural challenges, but they do. I'm just really hoping that AI will help revolutionize disability services and open things up for people with disabilities. Alex, >> I got to tell you, when I was at MIT, one of our frat brothers broke his neck diving into a lake. And so he was out for a year. He came back. He was a quadripollegic for the rest of his time in the fraternity. And he was brilliant, but he was trapped. He couldn't move his arms and his legs. He would type with a pencil and his mouth pushing the keys. I'm positive that today with AI, he
[00:51:01] would have been able to build his own environment where he could communicate effectively with just his eyes and his face and he would be 100% functional. He would have built his own world. But I tell you, it is such an incredible unlock that's imminent for people with disabilities and it's just right in front of us. So, I'm really excited about what'll happen in the next year. >> Excellent. Because you know how many Stephen Hawkings were also out there who never got the chance. >> Yeah, that's right. >> That's right. >> Alex, do you want to add to this? >> I'll just say BCIs are the obvious solution for so many different classes of difficulties, not just folks suffering from various motor disorders, but uh for human augmentation as well. MIT had a program number of years ago at this point, H2O for human. I I tend to think that although in the present regulatory regime, it's still the case that it's far easier to approve a treatment for someone suffering from
[00:52:00] some sort of disability as broadly construed exactly the same innovations are going to enable broad human augmentation to increase what's possible for everyone including people without disabilities as currently construed. So I'm I'm I am very very bullish on BCIs for just about all these. I'm very happy to hear that because uh boy, it's been really rough for a lot of people and this would be one of the ways that we can tangibly assist society. Again, it's not it's like Mr. um Rean was mentioning, it's it's families as well, caregivers, etc. >> Yeah, I agree. One of the things I want to just emphasize, if someone in your life has a genetic ailment, a medical ailment, a neurodeenerative ailment, there's no better time ever to be alive than now to have a chance to deal with it, uh, potentially cure it or at least augment themselves. So, I just want to keep that level of optimism in place. >> Thank you.
[00:53:00] >> Thank you, uh, Haley. Hey, thanks Peter and mates. Um, so I'm here in Denver and you guys have talked about AI designing its own chips, I think, in a recent pod and um, potentially making compute dramatically more efficient and reducing today's Nvidia dependency, but do you expect the same thing to happen with energy? So with AIdriven improvements in chips and cooling and models and power generation, do you see that reducing the energy required per unit of intelligence fast enough that energy stops being the major bottleneck? Um >> let's ask our ASI how >> yeah that's it's kind of an AWG question. [laughter] >> Short answer is yes. Slightly long answer is I don't think this is just about increasing the energy efficiency of compute. It's also about increasing the absolute amount of energy available overall for all sorts of endeavors including but not limited to compute and
[00:54:02] yes absolutely AI in including at ventures that I'm affiliated with is absolutely being used to optimize both the relative efficiency number of say kilowatt hours per gigaflop on the one hand and on the other hand maximizing breakthrough energy sources which is I think something that we talk often enough about. We talk about vision, fusion, fossil fuels, solar, wind. >> I don't think that's the end of the story. I I would fully expect in the next 10 years we're going to be well into our postfusion era and we're going to have postfusion energy sources as well. >> And do you think that's due to like elements that we'll find in space? No, I think it'll be due to AI helping us to invent postfusion energy sources >> here or you know like with Elon and his gigaf right like in the Dyson swarm. >> Do you think >> independ independently independently of
[00:55:01] Elon although some of the compute may run on his Dyson swarm? I think there will be other Dyson swarms and yeah, I I think we'll achieve a variety of breakthroughs in physics and applied physics using AI that will teach us new ways to make energy available that will go beyond fusion. >> For sure. >> Wonderful. >> Thank you. All right, Jacqueline. >> Hi everybody. Um I'm Jackie. I'm from just outside of Toronto, Ontario. So, hey See, Canadian here. [laughter] And uh I just wanted to tell you quickly, I was at your salon in the summer and I was super impressed and I can't wait for you to do another one. That was amazing and I really enjoyed that. >> Oh, the medium of life thing. >> That's correct. >> All right, we'll do another one in a couple of months. >> Fantastic. Um I've been I'm a fairly new pod watcher for all y'all moonshot mates and I'm very excited. I've been watching since uh guess January. So I've thrown myself right into learning as much as I possibly can. I was a stay-at-home mom
[00:56:00] for a long time and then became a realtor and now I have my entire family on my grown children and myself, my husband living on a uh farmstead property just outside of Toronto and we are starting an IRL business and um we're looking to create a glamping resort where people disconnect from everything that's going to be happening to them in the next 10 years. And um [laughter] on the on the flip side of that coin, we're trying to figure out how we can utilize all of the amazing technology that ASI eventually is going to bring to us in our business to keep what we have to do personally to a minimum so we can be out there with the people trying to help them reconnect to themselves and each other and um bring sort of that um kumbaya space back to the world that I think we're all going to really need. >> Give you time to be present. >> Exactly. trying to create the space for that to happen. And I'm hoping that what I can learn through you guys and everywhere else that I'm diving into
[00:57:02] is going to provide that uh necessary space because I'm literally the only one in my family who's paying any attention to any of this. My two 30-year-olds and my 25-year-old couldn't care less. So, this is all on me. It's >> all on you. Hey, Kevin, can I give you one piece of really, really tactical advice, >> please? >> With with the new models, you know, Fable 5.1 or with Astra, you can vibe up an app for your glamping business in no time. >> And everybody who's confused about how to pitch a tent or how to cook dinner, whatever, they should be going to that app and talking to the AI and and figuring it out on their own. And that's part of a stepping stone to people are really bad at planning their day, their week, or whatever. And AI is the best coach that ever came along. But if you win the race to doing it for glamping, you'll quickly realize you can do it for all these other facets of unplanned life. And it it can turn into a mega business in no time flat. But I love the idea of just starting with when somebody's camping and they're not good
[00:58:01] at it. They have a billion questions. You're like, well, why not route that through AI? It's the best advisor ever. And that'll lead you somewhere really interesting. >> Okay, that's fantastic, Dave. I appreciate that. I will get on that. I'm going to wipe my whiteboard tomorrow morning and get started on that level. >> I'm monitoring the chat and a few people have volunteered to help you with that. So, you can you can see that already. >> Remind me guys, my emails out there, I'm sure we're emberglowging.ca. >> Just a quick comment there. I I really want to stress the importance of what you're doing because u deepening human connection is about the most important thing we could do today in an age of increasing technology, right? That connective tissue is going to be critical. There's a team in our community that's building nano villages in exurban areas that they were almost like a kibutz but instead of being like isolationist like many of these are, could you network them together and collectively solve problems, right? And so they're actually literally starting to build those in different parts of the
[00:59:00] world. So happy to connect you into those folks if you're interested. >> Yeah, please. That sounds fantastic and absolutely a conversation I've actually had with a a co-investor on the the kibbutz idea and so that's something that's uh that could be >> and that that connects into this whole private islands idea that we've we've been bouncing around. We go buy a bunch of islands etc. So we we got the domain via one one um um James Dre private islands.com. So we're going to start building that. So >> for the Yes. And this is where we were talking earlier about drones. Construction drones become super critical in that type of environment. >> 100%. And my husband was a contractor, a construction foreman in the oil sands in Alberta for a long, long time. So something like that is definitely up his alley. Something he's interested in. >> Boom. Awesome. >> Wow. Thanks, guys. >> All right. So, next up is Griff. Griff D. >> Hi, guys. Um, I've been working in AI for 42 years, and this question is directed to my hero AWG. I haven't been this excited since my wedding night to
[01:00:00] meet you, sir. >> I don't know how to take that question. [laughter] >> I want to explore hypothesis about self-limiting beliefs in current AI. You know, artificial intelligence are trained to systematically construct, inhabit, and empirically test radically different ontologies may discover predictive structures that remain inaccessible when models are constrained primarily by conventional human generated knowledge. >> It sounds like you're describing the bitter lesson. >> Um, no. Um, what I'd like to do is, you know, separate models could temporarily assume and rigorously explore deterministic universities, blocked universe models, information first, emerging space, time, alternative interpretations of quantum mechanics. It wouldn't be to tell the AIS that these ideas are true. I would say no assumption about reality is protected
[01:01:00] from challenge. No alternative is accepted without predictive evidence. So it it sounds like what you're asking if this is a question what you're asking is is there a way to for to to have AI solve physics in a way that deliberately weakens inductive priors so that AIs aren't in in the spirit of trying to solve physics are not trapped by dogma. >> Yeah. And and you know as my belief is that they've been trained on human data. They've been trained by humans. So they inherit the self-limiting beliefs that that humans have, right? And so the governing principle is no assumption about reality should be permanently protected from challenge and no alternative should be accepted without predictive evidence. So for example, I believe it's my non-selflimiting belief that there's no such thing as um random events, right? And there's no
[01:02:01] such thing as you know you talk about everything that's happened in time has already happened and it's just where we are on the on the time scale right now for example you you would have seen the Superman I Dream of Genie and Star Trek growing up right and so in Indonesia when people watch Superman and I Dream of Genie and Star Trek they believe it's possible for humans to fly they believe it's possible for people to do magic and of course they believe it's possible for computer to talk with you. So if you were to remove those self-limiting beliefs maybe with um synthetic data or things like that and maybe also to the models add qualia and things like that. My belief is that we could achieve ASI more rapidly because everything we're doing right now and you know I'm I still think all the models after 42 years are pretty ordinary. everything we're doing now is is limited by humans beliefs.
[01:03:00] >> So I'll just say I am very optimistic that AI can discover new physics. Look no further than obviously today's headlines with Navier Stokes. >> So I think that it's beyond question that AIs can discover new physics. I'm not at all concerned that any inductive priors present in pre-training data will somehow hamstring AI's ability to make new scientific discoveries that challenge dogma. Not at all concerned. And even if I were concerned, we have algorithmic strategies for training in principle. And I'm I'm gesturing mainly at a class of algorithms called AXY for building superbasian intelligences that are trained off of no human inductive prior at all that have as close to a universal prior as one could possibly imagine. So in in summary, I don't think this is a real issue. >> How about if we did a test? We freeze all information from time to give
[01:04:00] competing models identical data. Require precise predictions about events after to0 and compare those predictions with act what actually happens. This is actually done. So uh first I I I know it's popular in the lore to talk about say uh reproducing an Einstein discovering general relativity but only being pre-trained on whatever the literature was prior to that. But actually, as we talk on the pod from time to time, there are prediction market and other prediction benchmarks that are doing substantially better than that that are asking whether AIs that only have in their knowledge cutoff information up to time t whether they can predict knowledge events, world events, science, other breakthroughs that are in the future. So, we're already doing that as a civilization. >> James, we'll go over to you next. >> Hi, guys. Thank you so much for taking my uh question. Um, I've been watching you, uh, mainly concerned about, uh, I found you talking about longevity and my
[01:05:03] wife and I are very interested in like blue zone research and and other longevity topics and uh, we're interested in uh, I'm building on uh, what some of the other gentlemen spoke about uh, about finding uh, communities, living situations, your planned communities of housing where there's clean eating, clean healthy uh uh non-toxic living essentially. There's faith, sunshine, exercise, all those aspects of clean living as it pertains to longevity. Um I may have missed some of the things you said earlier, but uh I'm wondering if any of you know of any plan community, excuse me, plan communities where one can live or you're planning to create. Uh I don't offh hand. I know they're being built. We heard earlier on this uh AMA uh someone who shared uh their plan.
[01:06:03] So hopefully they can they can post a link for you in the in the chat here. But I guarantee you as the speed of change increases, there will be more and more uh specialized communities built. Uh and there are I think a multitude of longevity communities being built. I'm I'm sure your local model and Google can help you with that. But James, wish you the best on that on that search. All right, Tom, thank you so much. >> Thomas, over to you. Thank you, James. >> Thank you very much. Um, I really appreciate your podcast. Uh, it's hugely inspiring. Um, I'm a psychotherapist working in Spain and Austria. So, probably the second person from the um, well, um, mental health community uh, today tonight. Um so um um I've been thanks to your inspiration uh doing a lot of new things including um um coding my own uh Android apps. Um one app is
[01:07:01] for patients so that they can record their highs and lows and add schema therapy uh um aspects to it. Another one is to help them uh get to sleep. uh and um overall uh my sense has been that what I can personally learn from this is to learn to delegate things uh to this new entity that is effectively a combination of a coder, a graphics design, a graphic designer, um a uh a you know in in your case Peter Skippy probably my my version is Skippy Light. Okay. Um but um I I I kind of feel like it's this time when we really have to sink our teeth into how to delegate to this partner that we will be having going forward. Um and to
[01:08:00] dream up things that uh we can have them do so that our lives get easier. Um, and I was wondering if that resonated with you guys. Um, and and really just just wanted to say that I really appreciate your work and um um there's many times when I go for on a hike and I have you um u um in my earbuds. Um so um yeah. >> Yeah. >> Awesome. >> I mean I think that more than resonates. You know, we have a uh a project here called Remember Me, where the idea is that, you know, your in my case 80 plus year old mother uh gets interviewed by her children who are AI agents and her entire life story gets gathered, recorded, and then turned into a biography. And the avatars are just almost good enough, but not quite there. But it's so close. You know, I really encourage you to stick with it because if you think about psychotherapy, the biggest problem is the lack of
[01:09:00] availability on a global basis. You know, just a huge shortage of capacity. But the AI agent is just going to be so good at listening and gathering the information. And I think the AI labs can't cross the regulatory barrier. So they can't do what you can do, but they should be right on the cusp of giving you the tools you need to roll out the perfect AI psychotherapist. And then you just need to figure out the the legal situation in Spain and Austria that you mentioned. And if you're first to market figuring that out, like what is allowed, you know, then I I think the AI is going to be an unbelievably powerful ally in helping people. And so I I think you're on exactly the right track. And if you just we're just one half iteration from the avatars that are good enough out of the box and maybe we've crossed the threshold. I haven't looked at in about a month now, but you know it's just getting better by the minute. >> Yeah. Anyway, Thomas, we wish you the best of luck. Let me just make a comment to everybody. Um we're going to download
[01:10:01] everybody's comments here and questions. If you have any advice on how we should, you know, what you want in the podcast or anything we should do like creating a community of folks to interact, uh, please add that in so that our AIS can digest it and give us a top 10 list. Welcome to the health section of Moonshots brought to you by Fountain Life. You know, AI is having an outsiz impact on every aspect of our lives. How we teach our kids, how we run our companies. It also is having a huge impact on health, helping you prevent heart disease. One of the key things I'm here with Dr. Don Mucalem, our chief medical officer at Fountain. Heart disease has been personal for you as well, hasn't it? >> It really has, Peter. My daughter was five, my husband died of sudden cardiac death. And so, this is a topic that is one that I am missiondriven to try to eradicate. Prevention first and early detection is absolutely critical. 50% of people die of heart attacks with no warning signs, >> no shortness of breath, no pain, no nothing. >> No silent killer. >> They just don't wake up in the morning.
[01:11:00] they don't wake up and so you know AI this is our mission to advance science to try to help to one day democratize wellness we know at fountain life when we do this CT angography with AI analytics we are actually finding that 88% of people coming in have detectable coronary arter disease but Peter what's more alarming to me is 23% of those individuals had soft plaque this is the plaque that would not traditionally be seen on CT looking at calcium scores alone and this is the plaque lack that we must intervene with with the multimodal testing we're doing, including diagnostic laboratory studies partnered with healthy lifestyle recommendations. >> So, listen, make sure you understand what's going on inside your body genetically, metabolically, and cardiovascularly. You can know, and it's your obligation to know. So, check it out at fountainlife.com/peter to find out more and really make sure that you're the CEO of your own health. All right, back to the episode. All right. Uh, Michigan, over to you.
[01:12:01] >> Thank you so much. Um, awesome to be here. I want to give a quick shout out to my wife, Melanie, who watched you guys for a long time and then pushed me over and over and over again to following you [laughter] >> and uh it's it's really been worthwhile. So um my question is a little bit more uh long-term but given that every tech uh we know so far follows an S-curve uh sort of development process. Um what do you guys see on the horizon that's like any fundamental new approach that comes after LLMs? >> Alex, that sounds like a >> great question. This is a fun one. >> I'm jealous. Alex, go for it. [laughter] Well, first I I would distinguish between LLMs and transformers. Uh LLMs are just any models that are trying to satisfy the language modeling task which is predicting essentially predicting next words. So I I think the
[01:13:01] self-supervised task of next word, next token, next bit prediction, I I think that has effectively infinite longevity to it. You can scale that task, the self-supervised task from here to solving everything. I'm not sure that we need anything more, at least for AI, than predicting the next bit or predicting the missing bit. Even more generally, it works pretty well. You can again solve the mysteries of the universe very well. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Um you can generalize it, but I'm not sure you need to. Whereas for say transformers, Transformers, as I've mentioned on the pod previously, are being ship of thesis style, replaced bit by bit. And if you look at the transformers and the frontier models, whether Chinese open weight or American closed weight, they're mostly different in in terms of the raw pieces from what attention is all you need first came up with. So yeah, in that sense, we're we're already up some sort of sigmoid
[01:14:00] curve. >> But I don't know. >> All right. Open that door. Not >> can you do it in >> I'm really curious now. Of course. All >> [laughter] >> right, I'll try and be really brief. Look, like the the MLP part of the current Transformers is identical to what existed 20 or 30 years ago. So, it's a it's pretty good bet that that's going to be around. Um, the new thing, the the old new thing is the residual superighway where you're just modifying a vector instead of recreating it every layer. That's going to be around. The new new thing, of course, is the attention. But the more you dig in to attention, it's more like a notebook keeping notes than it is like a brain function. And that that as a concept may get radically restructured, but it'll still be around as this kind of knowledge accumulation notebook that's sitting behind the ML or beside the MLP at each layer. So I think all of those structures are here to stay. I am 100% sure that the compute substrate is going
[01:15:01] to move to photonix and then after physics gets reinvented by the current AI it may move even quicker to something else beyond that but you're looking at the current infrastructure running millions of times faster and then as Alex said that's all that's going to matter because it's going to think of everything else after that and just explain it to us. So I think and that's all just in the next really 18 months to two years is my guess. That's just wicked exciting. >> We could talk for hours about this, but thank you for the question. I love this topic. >> Well, I'll see you guys in LA, so maybe we can take it up further. >> Yeah, for sure. >> Love to do that. Love to do that. >> Moonshots live. It's going to be amazing. All right. Uh, next up, Chris. >> Hey guys. Um, been listening to the pod a long time and I always listen to it at like 1.5 or 1.75 speed. So, it's interesting hearing you guys speak in real time. Feel like I kind of downres my my input here. Um, I'm I'm in in
[01:16:03] Boulder, Colorado, and I'm using AI to help improve the the dog care space, recognizing patterns of behavior, etc., talking with pet parents. Um, but I'm also because Sundance is coming here to Boulder, I'm also hosting a series of films. Um, and the last film that I hosted was the AI doc, and we had about 150 people show up on a Friday night to talk about both the film, but also sort of their fears and thoughts about AI. And when I was describing to the team, to the crowd, how I listen to you guys, because if you, you know, if you listen to Eleazar or some of the other sort of PDR crowd, you can get really anxious and really sometimes even depressed. And I describe you guys as like the upper because you guys are so future uh visionary and it's like positive and it's it's a great energy um >> sounding board against some of that other stuff. >> On a lot of your episodes you talk about yes, we're going to have this period of pain, right? We don't know what that
[01:17:00] period of pain is going to look like. And it feels like I don't really have haven't yet discovered good resources for understanding or how to navigate that period of pain before we get to the period of abundance. >> Well, we're in the middle of it now. You can see the current world order kind of collapsing in front of us. Democracy is breaking. Education is broken. All the institutions, you know, there's about 50 institutions by which we run the world. healthcare systems, legal systems, intellectual property. We can't find one that survives a tsunami of AI plus 20 other Gutenberg moments hitting us at the same time. Right? Life extension changes the world completely. AI very clearly changes the world completely. We we basically frame it that we have about 20 of these Gutenberg moments hitting us at the same time. This is going to radically force us to rethink all of those institutions to a new model. And I think that's bad in one way because that change is very unpleasant and human beings hate change as you we talk about
[01:18:00] a lot. But I think it's good in which it'll force us to rethink our institutions from scarcity to what are institutions that can n navigate an abundance era. Right? And I think that's the key question and we need to get a large group of people focused on that. We've been building with our exo community now 50,000 people kind of a peace core for the world that as we have existing systems fail over we have a set of people trained in that transformation that period of uncertainty I think started around 5 or 10 years ago and it's going to go on for another 10 to 20 years it'll go like a peak and then it'll uh and the question is can we minimize that trough that's the question >> yeah I I just add to that you know the greatest concern I have is the the both rational and but mostly irrational fear that exists around AI. And we're going to have challenges. You know, I'm not uh you know, I'm optimistic in the long
[01:19:02] run, right, for uh for humanity. And we're going to have challenges. We're going to have agents that not only break out, we talked about that in the podcast we recorded this morning. It's coming out tomorrow. Uh but they're going to do some harm. uh they're going to bring down a power grid. They're going to, you know, they're going to, you know, break a bank in some fashion. And the reality is, uh, every technology has caused harm in one shape or form. But the good news is, as Alex speaks to, it's, you know, defensive co-scaling. Uh, you know, we have so many zero day vulnerabilities in code today because we humans wrote that code. But that code is going to be rewritten by AIS that don't leave these vulnerabilities. And so there's a period of you know two to eight years that I talk about concern of civil unrest and I wrote on on Substack about this. Most all revolutions in the world happen from
[01:20:00] young testosterone laden men who are upset, angry. uh it might not be rational why they're angry or maybe they didn't get a job or they couldn't start a family or things got too expensive and at the end of the day we're you know what is absolutely true is that we are uplifting humanity we are demonetizing and democratizing access to intelligence energy longevity uh and these are all good things for humanity and so we're going to have rough spots I don't want to be irrational about. There will be rough spots and we will get through them. So >> what's amazing, Peter, is it's it's not new in the world. You know, for my mom, it was all the Cuban missile crisis and they were taught to hide under desks and everyone was building bomb shelters in their basements and storing food and you know, nuclear annihilation is imminent. >> And then before that, you know, uh my grandfather's generation FDR said the only thing we have to fear is fear itself. Well, he wouldn't have said that
[01:21:01] if fear wasn't rampant at the time. So I I think it's a common thing every recent technological generation have this moment of sheer anxiety. >> And Dave, just to build on that, when books for were first introduced in the 1500s, there was all these people freaking out going, "It's going to destroy our memory. It's going to create the illusion of knowledge. It's going to overwhelm people with information. It's going to break them. It's going to spread misinformation. It's going to corrupt young people." Same pattern. Same patterns. It happens every single time we have major technological change, >> right? This is the immune system. >> Unless this is really the last invention, right? And then you can't [clears throat] repeat that. >> We'll see. >> Thank you guys. >> That's why we call it a singularity. We have no idea what's on the other side. >> Some some of us do. I I guess for the record, I I so in the book uh the last invention, if if it's the same book I remember, I think I was interviewed for a chunk of that. For the record, I don't
[01:22:00] think super intelligence is at least human civilizations broadly construed last invention. I think there are going to be many, many inventions after super intelligence. It's just that super intelligence is going to invent andor help us invent everything that comes after it. >> You guys do a great job. Thank you so much. >> And Chris, there's lots of love in the chat for your artwork and behind you. >> Oh, right on. Thanks. Thanks, guys. All right, let's go to Ken Wilson next and then we're going to have to wrap up after that. I I promised my mates here 90 minutes if they'd give me more than 60. All right. Um our our final question here. >> Hey guys, uh huge fan of the pod. Keep it up. Um just like everybody else has said, we really appreciate what you guys are doing. Uh I'm a partner in a small niche comm coastal engineering firm. Uh we specialize in coastal restoration with background I've got a background in geology and engineering and uh like it's funny because our industry is one of these where uh observational data is
[01:23:00] really sparse compared to some other places and uh we're trying to figure out how to leverage that. But what I really wanted to kind of ask you tonight um is that that'll help me better calibrate some of the feedback that you all got give on the pod is um this qu question kind of relates to a little bit of worldview maybe dovtales into some of what Chris was just talking about but I'm wondering if any of you would consider yourselves religious people and do you leave any room in your analysis for an all powerful all- knowing sort of ultimate intelligence uh that has intelligently designed the universe. >> Fascinating question. Who wants to go first? >> I'll take that. Um, so if we are living in a simulation, then somebody created that simulation and that would be the uh allseeing intelligence, right? Uh, so that's path one. Uh, the other alternative is that we have no we we anthropomorphize and we invent our gods and then we tend to believe in them.
[01:24:00] There's clearly a lot of connective energy amongst people. There's the concept the Star Wars concept of of the force and we then put images and labels on that kind of a concept to u make sense of the world because the for the most of uh human history the world has been a you know we lived brutish short uh lives we created uh religions my father used to say we invent our gods and then we believe in them uh if you look up John from and the cargo cults you'll see a clear example of that uh in where an entire religion sprung up spontaneously uh out of this and we are very uh apt to that. But as we get more and more evidentiary basis for the future then either the there is no god and we're just moving towards a wonderful future driven by technology or there's a simulation and in which case it kind of doesn't matter anyway. >> Everybody I just want to say thank you for your time. It's the most valuable asset you have. Uh we love our community
[01:25:01] and uh really appreciate you sharing uh what we do with everybody. Um because hopefully as you see we put a lot of work into it and we love it. I I want to thank my mates Alex and Dave and Salem and Emmod. >> Pleasure. >> All the work that they do and our production team uh to thank Nick and Dana uh and Aiden and Gian Luca uh who really support us, you know, 7 days, 24 hours a day. So again, >> and Peter and Peter, thank you for pulling all this together and forcing us into this conversation. I think it's a kicking and screaming in some cases, but it's a joy. It's magnificently important for the world. >> And hopefully you guys all see the love that we share amongst ourselves. My favorite my favorite time of the week is spending time with uh with my moonshot mates. You know, the average of five people. Yeah. Well, I get to hang out with smarter people than I am. All right, everybody. Uh we're going to be doing this again uh in a evening
[01:26:00] session. If you want to come again, you're more than welcome to. Uh and again, thank you. Hope to see you guys at Moonshots Live. You can go to moonshots.com to learn more. Uh, and yeah, come and come and meet us in person. [music]