I'd love to spend a little bit of time on what you've learned from Madonna. This is an older variety piece, but the quote here that's attributed to you is, "She mentored me and by working so hard pushed me to work so hard. I didn't know until she grabbed me by the hand and said, "Let me show it to you." And it goes on and it goes on. But what did you pick up from Madonna? What are the key sort of learnings? >> I mean, there's some clear learnings and there's stuff that with I'm 36 years next to this woman. Yeah. >> And there's things that when you look back, you go, "Okay, you know, I got that like people who think about things that I got that from my brother or my mother or my >> There are things that I didn't realize I was getting the whole time." So, there's both. And the front part is pretty, I think, obvious. You know, her work ethic is not to be believed. Her commitment to her craft not to be believed. her passion for just the greatest gifts of whether it's through the books that she's reading or
[00:01:02] through the art that she's finding or the people that inspire her or the designers or she's so surrounded herself with a collection of some of the most incredible people in the world and she identified them. By the way, she is the greatest identifier. She found these amazing talents early and and was able to whether either could they be painters or Freda Ko or they could be designers or musical people like she's an incredible finder of talent. I think the thing that has really affected me the most is that she doesn't see any kind of there's no walls around her thoughts. There's no, "Oh, I can't do that." >> Right. In terms of constraints, right? >> Yeah. Even going back to my first experience at Maverick Records. If you went to any record label, they probably would have they would have put me in a compartment. There's the R&B
[00:02:00] department, there's a jazz department, the rock department, reggae department, pop department, hip-hop department. And you're oh, what department are you in? And they and they sort of bucket you into these things. And I think that when I look back and I go, how did I not really bucket myself? I went from this to this to that to that to that. And I think it's it's really just being around her has allowed me to never think in a limited way. >> Mhm. >> And they all work together. A lot of the stuff I do on technology has allowed me to bring that into my musical world and to understand how these things work together or the relationships. And they're so hand-in-hand. And of course a few decades later now people understand that but at the time it was so it was it was it was very much like what are you doing this tech thing is crazy and you're not doing innovation is innovation and how we can distribute music or how we market and vice versa all the stuff from music is you know when you when you're launching a new company you have you know these founders
[00:03:00] are rock stars in my mind every founder I invest in I look at them like they are the rockstar I go that person has music they want to share of the world. They have their album and my job is to identify that artist, that founder before everyone else maybe identifies them. And my job is to help you reach that audience. How do we tell the story? How do we reach the base of your audience? How do we grow your audience? You know, what's your first single? What's your second single? I still work in that kind of process, which is very musical in my mind. We're going to spend a good amount of real estate on on the tech. But before we get to it, I want to take a moment to explore the the terrain of film and how you ended up executive producing Twilight and and all the rest because as as you mentioned in a different environment with a different label, you would have been tightly siloed and you wouldn't
[00:04:00] have had that ability, right? How did you end up with the foray into film? >> I'd been signing bands for a long time and running the record label and I thought, well, why don't we do a film company as well? And Madonna and I were really in a good groove together and thought, let's just let's just start this film company. >> Why did that come to mind? >> I don't really recall that. I just recall thinking about how people do it differently. And so again, I didn't have context. The best thing sometimes is to have zero context. Sometimes fresh is okay. Sometimes having a blank canvas. And with films, I had a blank canvas. I didn't know how it worked, >> but I knew I wanted to make some films. >> And I So I had this idea of bringing in a bunch of producers under one roof. >> And they were all independent producers. And the idea was is I'll bring them in and you know house them and and give
[00:05:01] them support and pay for a lot of the legal things that cost money when you're independent is it's a lot on you, >> right? All the back office, all of that stuff. >> We'll take all that on. We'll help you and then we'll work on these projects together. And we had like a lot of producers that I if I was to to pay for them, I couldn't have afforded it. But we did it that way. and and out of that came a lot of films and a lot of Twilight and and Percy Jackson, a few others that I was very lucky to be part of. The guy who ran it, Mark Morgan, was really good at it. But there were a lot of complications and I was at that same moment that we were that it started to take off. I picked up Madonna as manager with my partner at the time, Angela, and I took on Confessions, which was the pretty massive tour that year, and I think the biggest selling record of that year. So, as a I don't know how old I was back then, but that was a major responsibility for me.
[00:06:00]
Hard to ride both of those horses at the same time. >> Just that alone, just Madonna at that moment in time for someone I had not been a music manager for, you know, and anything near that level. And so to take that on and to, you know, work on all things the tour and the album and all that. >> And for people who have no context on music at all, what does a music manager do in that type of situation? >> It's a tricky question because no one manager is the same. Everyone's different. >> I guess what was your umbrella of responsibilities? When Madonna started working on Ray of Light, I found the producer, William Orbit, but I was not managing her. I was her partner at the record label, Maverick Records, and not her own, not Warner Brothers, which is where she was. She was on Warner Brothers, but I was just we were just friends and working together, but I fed ideas. I found the director, Jonas Aarland. And so I was creatively really working on this project called Ray of Light. So we're already building a creative
[00:07:01] rapport and on music Stefan Sidaway the director introduced me to a producer named her ways gave me a demo I loved it and I gave it to Madonna and I ended up becoming music. So I found on those two albums I really even though I wasn't managing her I was creatively helping here and there bring in some ideas. >> Mhm. >> So we already had a rhythm on the creative side. Now, there are some managers that don't do any creative and there are some that are very creative, but I was coming from the creative point of view on ideas, ideating. Here's here's things we could do. Here's things we could build. So, I think I think for me as that's the management that I am. I I'm more creative. When I'm working with someone, I I'm I'm sort of in it. And there are other managers I've worked with who they really just they don't do the creative but they do an incredible job managing everything keeping you know putting together the tour but they're not in there going what if we did this of you know what if we there's different kinds of managers I'm for creative for
[00:08:02] example when I showed her Jonas Arland did a video for Prodigy which is a band I signed and it was really provocative and I just showed it to her like this guy this is crazy and she goes he's doing my first video or or he's doing that like you You know, I showed her there's a a guy named Chris Cunningham. He made a song called Come to Daddy by Aphex Twin, which is really insane. It's a $30,000 video. I just showed it to her just to show her this. Look at this crazy thing. And she's like, "That guy's doing that video." So, she had Chris Cunningham do Frozen, which is an incredible video. And she had Jonas do Ray of Light. So, it was just a really great back and forth. We had really great energy together that that she she was open to my craziness and and then she would take it to the next level. >> What and and this is this is my even when I was very very young and everybody knew Madonna. I was constantly impressed by her longevity and ability to seemingly reinvent herself. And I'm just
[00:09:03] wondering why you think she has been so consistently good at that over decades. I mean, it was the first example that I remember even as a young pretty young kid be marveling over and I'm just wondering if you could add any any color to that. She doesn't sit well on her past. She's not high-fiving herself. >> [laughter] >> She's not really a Oh my god, I've done all these. She's just keeps it moving forward. Yeah, I think that that's a that is, you know, part of the inspiration for continually trying to move forward myself is I'm have a front row seat or shotgun to this incredible journey of this woman who just continually defies all the odds and
[00:10:00] fights the fight. It is not easy. It it's not just like it's not that she's maintained or stayed around. It's actually that she's had to fight her way through it a lot. She's breaking ground for a lot of other people who are coming behind her who can say, "Well, Madonna's done it. I can do it." But it is no easy feat. There is a lot of a lot of to deal with. >> And I think it comes from she just doesn't celebrate her accomplishments. She just starts like it's a brand new a brand new day.