Given the advances of AI and robotics, we’re going to have something called universal high income. I’m not sure how you get to universal high income. Um, without a major, as dysfunctional as I thought, our political system was, it’s even worse. This fourth industrial revolution is the most dramatic thing that’s happened to our society in history. >> We’re here in 2026. Uh, I do think the jobs are going to get whisked away. So you’re going to have rampant social unrest if we don’t do something quick. >> DC is on a multi-deade tape delay. You have, like you said, the rate of change just accelerating all the time. And so what’s gone um from an inconvenient tape delay is now a catastrophic one. >> The disintegration of the social contract is the most important conversation that we could be having. >> What’s the advice for someone in college today or someone a junior senior in high school? >> The only career path you can rely on is entrepreneurship. uh and owning your own future and path, but a lot of people
[00:01:00] aren’t cut out for that. >> Now, that’s a moonshot, ladies and gentlemen. >> Everybody, welcome to Moonshots. Another episode of WTF Just Happen in Tech. Here with my moonshot mates, DB2, Dr. Exo, and AWG. And here with a friend of the pod, a dear friend of mine, Andrew Yang. Andrew, good morning to you. >> Hey, Peter. Thanks for having me. It’s a pleasure to be here. >> Are you in the West Coast? >> Uh, East Coast. Uh, >> all right. >> Yeah. So, for me, this is a better time than you guys. >> Well, everybody else on the East Coast, that’s why no one complained about a 6 a.m. start this morning. Um, yeah, we’re excited to have this conversation. A lot going on. You know, for us, this is a conversation on typically AI and exponential uh technologies, how we get people ready for the future. And one of the things we’re talking about in the future is the changes that are coming and the potential for social unrest. How
[00:02:01] do we deal with the changing social contract? We’re going to talk about UBI, UHI, a number of different subjects. Everybody, if you don’t know Andrew, uh, entrepreneur extraordinaire, uh, 2020 US presidential candidate, which really put him on the main scene, leading advocate for universal basic income, founder of Humanity Forward and the Forward Party and a national voice about AI’s impact on jobs and the middle class. you know, we get a lot of conversations, a lot of questions around, you know, how does all this conversation around AI, crypto, uh, you know, robotics apply to me? How does it apply to me if I’m not, you know, in the VC business? If I’m not a tech entrepreneur, I want to dive into that. So, let’s jump in. Uh, Andrew, I’m going to start with a conversation about UBI versus UHI. When Dave and I were interviewing Elon at the beginning of
[00:03:01] 26, uh, one of the conversations that came up was his theory that no, we’re not going to have a universal basic income. Given the advances of AI and robotics, we’re going to have something called universal high income. Uh, let me play this short clip from our conversation, which which went a little bit in or unexpected direction. I how do we go towards universal high income instead of social unrest? >> So my both have universal high income and social unrest. >> That’s my prediction. >> Well, that will make for a lot of problems. >> Is that your actual prediction? >> Yeah. >> Yeah, it seems likely. >> Andrew, reaction to that, pal. >> I’m not sure how you get to universal high income um without a major political realignment. And I’d suggest that universal basic income would probably have to come first. Uh it would be like an intermediate step. Uh and
[00:04:02] one of the things I I’d love to unpack with Elon is how he thinks we get from here to there and also how this interacts with the person that’s asking the question. Like, let’s say you’re a 50-year-old middle manager at a Fortune 500 company that’s worried that your job is uh going to disappear. You might have a mortgage. You might have two kids. Uh and then how does that person wind up with a robot doing all their chores uh and uh money flowing in such that they can bring their family out to a nice meal at will. Uh you know, like that. The path to me is what’s important because uh we’re here in 2026. Uh I do think the jobs are going to get whisked away uh in a lot of these firms and that family is real. I mean uh I grew up with um folks who right now are uh deeply concerned that they’re going to lose their job and they very well might. Uh
[00:05:01] don’t have a huge safety net or pool of savings. maybe they they have a kid who’s um uh you know primed to go to college. And then that’s another part of it is like hey what’s college for? You know like like if I if I’m saving up um $250 $300,000 for my child to go to university, are they going to get a job afterwards? Are they just going to come right back and live with me? Um so those are the questions that I hear every day. I I really got the feeling talking to Elon like he was eager to work on exactly the question you asked until he got to Washington and his quote actually was like it’s a blood sport and man did it scare him away in a hurry. Um but I I think he he was eager to work on exactly the logistics of getting from here to UBI to UHI and you know one thing we talk about on the pod is how short the timelines are. You know, the election cycle is going to be four years no matter what. But AI is accelerating at a rate where four years is like like 40 years. So the amount of change in inside
[00:06:01] any given time window is like nothing we’ve ever seen. So maybe we should just figure it out right now. >> One of the the jokes I I told just yesterday, Dave, is that DC is on a multi-deade tape delay. Uh in part because we have 70 and 80y old legislators. uh and uh you have like you said the rate of change just accelerating all the time and so what’s gone um from an inconvenient tape delay is now a catastrophic one. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. See, what are you thinking about this? >> Um I’ve got a bunch of thoughts. First of all, Andrew, I want to just uh applaud you. You’re the social contract interpreter for the whole world. I think that you’re bringing UBI to the at a top level discussion is one of the most important things we could be doing. Um, I have a quick apology for you because a few years ago when you were doing your presidential run, I interviewed you for 25 minutes and we finished this interview and at the end I realized I had forgotten to hit the record button
[00:07:00] and I said, “I’m so sorry.” And you were so gracious. You said, “Salem, if that interview had no no right now, >> you you were incredibly gracious and you said, >> “Let’s do it again.” And we did it again and it was fantastic. So, I really want to just thank you for that. This is why I didn’t win. >> You can’t you can’t put it on me. Um but but I think that this is the fundamental the the disintegration of the social contract is the most important conversation that we could be having. And I think you’re absolutely right. UBI has to come before UHI. The big challenge is going from a labor union tax job construct to that is such a big leap. Public uh office and public um uh sector is not going to get us there. So, have you thought about how do we get there? >> Oh, yeah. I think about it all the time. I think about it every day. And uh you know, >> I’m waiting for enlightenment. >> Uh so, so path number one is that
[00:08:01] government gets its act together. Um and that that seems vanishingly unlikely. I know. Um but um I I still believe that that’s more of a possibility than most. Um and I can see some real uh outsized asymmetrical like possibilities even in 2028. Um then the other path is that you have a series of u I was going to say billionaires but they don’t have to be billionaires just like well-resourced individuals say look let’s just get this show on the road. Um I I was encouraged by uh some of what Dario Amade and the anthropic team had put out there where they say look a they were honest. They said we’re going to automate away 50% of the entry-le white collar jobs in the next 1 to 5 years. And I was like oh like thank goodness they came out and said it because uh you know like people might believe them. Um a and b uh they
[00:09:00] are going to get phenomenally wealthy and they expect to give the vast majority of it away and they would like to uh shore up the social contract uh and find ways to keep society whole and strong. And so if the government doesn’t get its act together, you can see a group of um tech innovators and entrepreneurs who are part of this revolution um turning around and saying, “Look, um we want to make sure the middle class survives this era. Uh and here’s $100 million. Here’s $500 million.” and then you’d pick a locality and show what can be done which itself might catalyze other philanthropy um and the government eventually. So those are two pathways I see. Hey everybody, you may not know this but I’ve done an incredible research team and every week myself, my research team study the meta trends that are impacting the world. Topics like computation, sensors, networks, AI, robotics, 3D
[00:10:00] printing, synthetic biology, and these Metatrend reports I put out once a week enable you to see the future 10 years ahead of anybody else. If you’d like to get access to the Metatrends newsletter every week, go to diamandis.com/tatrens. That’s diamandis.com/tatrens. But Andrew, just to dive in this a little bit, we’re talking about uh UBI, every single person in the United States. Let’s talk about for the US getting a check uh very much a stimulus check if you would similar to what happened during co you know what do you think the right amount of capital for a UBI payment would be to every family do you have a number in mind? >> Well I campaigned on $1,000 a month in 2020 um which if you run some numbers uh GDP right now is around $84,000 ahead. Uh it’s going up up up because of AI. So, it’s going to break 90 and then 100,000 um in the relatively near future. Um a thousand’s probably a bit low. Uh if you look at the poverty level
[00:11:03] now, now the poverty level um it depends upon where you are in the country. Um but it might be um something around uh $25,000 uh a person um in that order in that order of magnitude. Um and that’s per person. Um, and so you you can see uh maybe like twice the thousand dollars a month um might be necessary >> if we give if we gave the bottom 200 million of the 300 million Americans 50,000 a month. Um you know that’s about >> 50,000 a year you mean >> 50,000 a year. Yes. That’s that’s about 10 trillion uh allocated per year. I mean the ch the the opportunity is if in fact we start dividing by zero meaning the cost of labor and AI uh we’re going to one of the other conversations we had with Elon was we’re going to see the first hundred trillion dollar companies and we’re going to see multi- trillionaires coming online and and one
[00:12:01] of the points you bring up is is the money for a UBI coming from the government or do humans start aligning with companies and the companies start providing basically that UBI I wonder if that’s an option you’ve considered. >> You know, a company’s a possibility. I actually think it’s going to come from um human beings. Uh you know, and and one example >> would be something like what Michael Dell and his wife recently did where they gave away I want to say $6 billion to um Trump accounts for generally poor kids in the Texas area. Uh it was u maybe $250 a person. Um, but it was from an individual or their philanthropy and it was geographically centered on where Michael lives. Um, and so I I see that as a harbbringer where you just have an individual say uh like if it was anthropic and they live in the Bay Area, they could be like, “Look, we’re going to do this uh for like this
[00:13:02] region.” Um and then that like that to me is more likely because if a company does it um a company has a hard time justifying it, you know, especially if they have shareholders and uh even if they’re public, I mean, if they’re public, they would end up with lawsuits up the wazoo saying like you can’t be giving company money away to do something this non um shareholder serving. Um so I think it’s going to have to come from human beings. Um, but I and by the way, one of the cases I also make is that look, >> so if if I’m a billionaire, which I’m obviously not, though I know you guys know um some people who resemble that. >> Um, the media sometimes presented it like I was, and then my wife’s like, “Where the heck is this billion dollars that they keep talking about?” Um, so, >> uh, if I’m a billionaire and you come to me, and by the way, I think this entire billionaire tax conversation is really, um, counterproductive. uh you know it’s
[00:14:01] it’s um yeah like I mean the fact is if you actually had a 5% wealth tax you’d have zero billionaires the next day because they’d all um you know be uh in Switzerland or wherever. Um >> well also any any one-time tax it’s like what are you doing like down the road next year? Like how’s that going to work? >> Yeah. No, they’re saying recurring. I was like yeah good luck finding someone who’s going to stick around for that. Um, so, so if you’re a billionaire and I come to you and say, “Hey, we need your help to keep America from uh, utterly disintegrating, um, you would say, “Look, I’m into it. I’m a human being. I’m sympathetic and I don’t want my kids having armed guards around them all the time and all this other nonsense, but I’m dubious that if I send a check to the government, it’s actually going to go to anything good.” um because the government is uh you know just going to end up um like putting it towards some debt that they ran up or some bureaucracy I can’t identify or some uh
[00:15:01] you know other boondoggle. I’m very very sympathetic. Um and so then you’d say um hey how about we skip the government step and we take this right to the people and people that you care about. Um I think the Dalios Ray Dalio they were trying to emulate what the Dells were doing in Connecticut. Um, so I think that human billionaires are going to be the first movers in this direction. Uh, and uh, they’re going to center it around where they live. >> Let’s question how do we get to UBI and the answer is well government could get its act together and then everyone says not a chance in hell. Okay, path two is through billionaires which you you said okay let’s call those well-healed people. But one of the things that came up in Davos, you know, four years ago and also again this year in a big way is the fact that this is the first time in the history of the world that those well-healed AI billionaires also control all media. You know, Elon is on stage being very political in the last
[00:16:00] election while buying Twitter X, which is one of the massive media platforms. And now those media platforms have AI all over them. So for the first time in world history, you know, what you described is a scenario where these billionaires give a $100 million check to a candidate. The candidate runs TV ads that elevates their campaign. They get elected. But that’s so four years ago, you know, now that same well-healed Daario in this case also controls the AI voice and what it says with the training data. I mean, that’s it’s just a very very different scenario from anything we’ve seen before. Um, Alex, so I want to present to you all the 2028 scenario where like everything speeds up. >> So, um, and Elon was tiptoeing around this. He actually didn’t tiptoe. He just publicly said like, “Hey, we should start the America Party.” Um, at which time my phone started blowing up. Um, and then he uh um flipped a lot of people where they’re like, “Oh, um, you can’t do a third party.” It’s like, “Oh, wait a minute. Uh Elon totally could do
[00:17:01] a third party because you you identify the obstacles and Dave you just touched on them. So one is let’s call it for sake of argument a billion dollars. You could probably do it on less but let’s say a billion dollars. Two uh a media platform or megaphone and he owns it. And then three is popular movement. Uh and uh you definitely have that lying in weight where right now >> 50% of Americans say we’re independents. Democrats have a 29% approval rating. Republicans have a 32% approval rating. So if if you were to light the signal, a bunch of people would come your way. And if you are a political party, um, which the Forward Party is, you can design a nomination process however you like. There’s no magical uh scripture that says it has to to be in New Hampshire and Iowa or whatever. Like, it’s just made up. Um, really? And and so you you could do uh uh an online vote on your smartphone independent presidential primary with
[00:18:01] me, Mark Cuban, Oprah, Matthew McConnA, America’s going to be all right, all right, all right. Um and then uh have like a series of people and by the way the American public would be like oo this is actually interesting because what these people are going to say. I kind of know on some level what all the Dems are going to say. what JD Vance is going to say, but I do not know what this crew is going to say. You have Joe Rogan moderate uh the forum and the debate. You go around the country and the American people would then say this crew, regardless of which of these people I prefer, this crew is trying to give it back to me. I can tell because the Democratic party and the Republican party have no interest in giving it back to me, but these guys do. Um and then you’d get millions and millions of people participating in this primary. the person that wins then gets, you know, Elon and like Dario and the rest of it being like, “Sure, I’m I’m I’m more into this than I am into that.” Uh, and then we run it back. This is all
[00:19:02] on the table for 2028. Um, now, will all of that come together? Don’t know. Um, but certainly every piece is there. Exciting. >> Well, the time I mean that last election showed how flawed the primary process is and I I Yeah, the timing is perfect for it. the amount of change between here and 2028 is going to be like nothing we’ve ever seen, too. So, but I had no idea. I thought, you know, my whole life you’d start in New Hampshire, then, you know, you Trump across the country to Iowa, and then you I I thought that was just sort of written into law somewhere, but I had no idea you could just do it anyway you want. >> A thousand% no, Dave. Um, as a matter of fact, there are people that are trying to change the order right now um within the DNC. Uh, and the RNC just demoted Iowa. Sorry, the DNC already demoted Iowa. So, you won’t see Democrats going to Iowa anymore. Um, it it’s um it’s carved in stone in that it’s a DNC rule that um you know they fight over every four years. Um but there’s no magic to
[00:20:02] it at all. And if you think about it, um there are 42 states that have been on the outside looking in. And so if you were to go to them and be like, “Hey guys, how would you like to actually choose who the nominee is going to be? Um California or wherever?” where they’d be like, “Oh, I never get to do that.” Because by the time it gets to California, it’s already >> over. Yeah. >> Wow. >> Amazing. >> Alex, you have any opinions in this conversation? >> Sure. Many. Uh, so Andrew, first of all, fun to be chatting. I I’d like to maybe start by probing on the implicit assumption that universal basic income as sort of a proxy for wealth redistribution in response to perceived technological disemployment or underemployment or unemployment is necessarily the the optimal policy versus say one of many alternatives. In in my mind, alternatives would be universal basic services where the cost of energy and healthcare and housing and
[00:21:01] other utilities drop to near zero or zero or are essentially available for free in the same sense that breathing air is for the most part available for free or Wikipedia access is free or nearly free. So, universal basic services could be as much uh it somewhere in between free and say like an Amazon super prime that offers everything that one needs to survive for $100 per month as one >> which by the way which by the way is the subject of something called the abundance x-prise 250 bucks a month for food, housing, water, energy bandwidth. Yeah. as one possible alternative policy. Call it a supply side version versus the demand side UBI where everyone gets STEMI checks or universal basic equity where everyone is getting dividends from say an Alaska or Norway style sovereign fund. H how do you reason what’s the thinking process but
[00:22:00] behind UBI versus lots of other policy alternatives? Uh I I’m on all hands on deck. Uh any solution that improves people’s lives uh is a win. Um and so right now, and I think Peter knows this, but um I started a company called Noble Mobile that’s trying to get Americans wireless cost down closer to what Europeans pay. So the average American spending 83 a month on their wireless. I have a hunch that all of you are spending twice that. Um I I I was spending 150 a month on Verizon. Um the average European spending 35 a month. That delta of 48 a month comes to about $600 a year for the average American. Then multiply it times all the years they’re going to be a wireless customer um and the people in their household. Um by the way, Verizon gave its shareholders 11 billion in the last 12 months. So, um, so you have a hidden tax
[00:23:01] of about 100 billion on the American people, Alex, uh, in terms of our wireless connectivity. Um, and so I was inspired by what Mark Cuban did with generic drugs where he bought generic drugs at bulk and tried to make them available to the American people at a low markup. Um, you could frame that as universal so basic services. Maybe, maybe that’s not enough. Um, but I love it. You know, if we can get energy cost down to zero, near zero, freaking sign me up. Um like the if you look at the cost structure of the average American household right now, it goes in this order. Um number one, housing. Two, health care. Three, education. Four, food. Five, fuel. Six, transportation. Seven, um entertainment and media. And eight, wireless. Um so I think we should be trying to attack each of those. Um, but the fact is like the highest line item one is housing, which uh, you know, like is relying upon local zoning ordinances and all this nonsense that it’s like hard even for the feds to come
[00:24:00] in and say, “Hey, we’re going to build 7 million new new housing units because wealthy people um, uh, get very conservative when someone’s trying to build an affordable housing um, complex in their neighborhood.” Yeah. >> Um, so I I’m totally down with trying to attack the cost structure at every turn. Um, and uh, you know, you identified uh, fuel, which is um, you know, on the list at like, you know, um, but it it’s not the main thing um, uh, for Americans. Um, >> housing and healthcare um, and like hopefully education um, under control, then you know, then then you’d be making real progress. But maybe just to press on that point a bit. So for housing, healthcare, and education, there there’s an alternative universe perhaps where we create an overabundance of supply rather than juicing demand with stimulus checks. So in in your mind, how how would you morally weight say creating
[00:25:00] special economic zones where housing is overabundant, filled with skyscrapers or where healthcare is driven to zero with effectively municipality level AI or education is purely AI. Basically trying to solve this perceived problem from the supply side with overabundance rather than from the demand side with stimulus. I >> I’m I’m all for it. Um I I just think that right now if you say hey which is going to be faster um I have more confidence in our ability to to transfer money into people’s bank accounts um very very quickly um than than I do uh designing some of the solutions you’re talking about. It’s >> not one or the other. Right. >> It’s not one or the other. And even if you were to have like the permits today to build the skyscrapers and like the place, I mean, you’re talking about um realistically months or years. And that’s if everything were magically in place. >> Yeah. Elon’s point was we’re going to have humanoid robots that will be able to build you whatever you want at the
[00:26:00] cost of basically energy and raw materials, and AI will deliver us health and education. And in fact, AI will become your shadow worker for you. Go earn the revenue for you. We can get into that. See, you were going to add. >> Yeah. Two two things. I think the UBS the most constructive thing I’ve heard about the UBS commentary >> universal basic services >> is the channels aren’t burned in. Right. I think Andrew makes a valid point that if you want to just give money, it’s the easiest model and the on the affordability and how much do you think the the best framing I’ve seen is you give people enough to survive but not be happy and then you still have a very thriving economy, jobs, etc. entrepreneurship explodes under this model. Uh one just an observation uh the in the 1970s Manitoba and Canada the province gave a UBI out and they implemented this program and it was staggeringly successful and after 2 years they realized oh my god we they don’t even need government to exist if we have this incident and they canceled
[00:27:01] it instantly because government wants to exist and that’s the immune system. I think that’s the most difficult part about this is that if you implement it properly, you can get rid of a lot of government services. Let the market take care of it. But that’s a very hard jump for governments to make. I would really enjoy that. Uh and and one of the the things that made me sad when I was campaigning was like there was a woman in Iowa who said, um, “Hey, I’m afraid to volunteer in my community because I might lose my disability check um because I’m afraid someone might see me walking around and that I’m healthy.” And so I don’t I stay in. And I was like, well, that’s really depressing. I think everyone can agree that her showing up to the church bake sale is a win for for both her the people. So that there’s a a lot of um uh bad incentives in this system. um a lot of paternalism, a lot of stuff that makes people feel uh like they’re subject um to the bureaucracy um of
[00:28:01] government in a way that’s really um stilling uh like the even the most basic forms of entrepreneurship. >> Andrew, I think your answer is right on target because the the timelines, the small timeline differences are going to matter a lot. Job loss is a 2026 thing and then have a huge 2027 thing and then building, you know, low-income housing is a multi-year ju just getting it approved is a very long slow process. So, you’re going to have rampant social unrest during that 2-year window if we don’t do something quick. So, giving out stim checks is is quick. I also think that subsidizing employment the problem with stimulus checks is when you pay somebody to not work they lose the work motivation very very quickly. We saw that during COVID. So another very quick thing is subsidizing employment where the government says look if you find new productive things for people to do that are AI oriented and that have a long-term future. The government will subsidize half that payroll or or
[00:29:00] threequarters of that payroll but put it back in the hands of the private sector to decide how to use people subsidized by the government. >> There’s also the public works right where the government basically takes on large massive projects and employs people to do those things. Well, yeah, but but but put the you know, like the Cape Cod Canal to me was a massive public works project with one boat a day and 10 million cars trying to get over the bridges just like you created a huge hole in the ground. That is more of a problem than a solution. >> Um so you don’t you don’t want the government deciding. You want you want to put that back into the private sector saying, “Hey creators, you know, find something really useful to do. You know, Amazon, find something really useful to do. We’ll just partially subsidize it during this turbulent, you know, window.” >> And then Alex is Dave, you’re describing Canada. Um because in Canada they do a lot of this where they sub subsidize, but the problem is they put so many rules and um uh procedural barriers it becomes uh nonsensical to try and get it. So that’s the problem there.
[00:30:00] >> Alex, over to you. Yeah, I I think there’s another potential interesting model that we’ve started to discuss on this pod a bit over the past few episodes that looks maybe a little bit like what we’re seeing with data centers that are being compelled or are opting into subsidizing electric infrastructure construction because they’re becoming increasingly the largest consumers of of the supply of available power. And in one can imagine a near future, a very near future where data centers and the hyperscalers and frontier labs behind them are essentially subsidizing to the point of offering for free electricity to consumers that can then consume from the same infrastructure that the hyperscalers are building for their own consumption. Um, so I I guess maybe to put that in in question form, Andrew, uh, going back to UBI versus UBS versus universal basic equity versus whatever is behind door number four, what do you
[00:31:00] think of the possibility that a as super intelligence is driving an overabundance of supply that what we see is some sort of basically shadow UBI or shadow UBS wherein as we’re seeing again with data center builders being asked to subsidize infrastructure consumption. We see the hyperscalers being asked to subsidize universal basic services or income for personnel, for consumers, for municipalities in their general area. >> Uh yes, I I think that’s that that’s in the portfolio, Alex, of things that um could be helpful solves. the I I want to underscore just how uh far along in this process we are. I mean, you all remember when the um the the healthcare CEO was shot in the street and then um his killer is lionized. Uh and that was X months ago.
[00:32:00] I think things just continue to deteriorate. um where young people today and this pains me. I was just speaking to a group of CEOs yesterday where it’s like young people now regard a lot of successful people as bad, you know, and and you look at that and be like, wait a minute, like like that that’s uh obviously like a very troubling characterization where, you know, it’s like, oh, anyone who’s done well um must have uh stepped on people or done something um negative or or malignant. Um, and so we’re, you know, you can characterize what inning we’re in of the the deterioration, but it’s one reason why Dave said it’s like, oh yeah, like we got to move fast. I think we really have to move as quickly as we can because the anger is rising and the anger is getting refracted through our two-party system in various ways. So on the left, it’s like, okay, capitalism bad, socialism good. You know, the average age of a first-time home buyer is like 40 years old now. So, if you’re
[00:33:01] 28, you’re out of luck. It, you know, you’re going to get a college degree that is valueless. The unemployment rate for recent college grads is now over 50%, you’re going to be at home with your parents. You still owe these loans like like the the anger is really really um high and rising. And then on the right, it’s taking this other form. This um uh uh kind of reactive um uh like hyper um genderizing of various like roles and conversations and and um things that also don’t in my mind, you know, like solve the problem. Um, and so I’m all about trying to to get there as quickly as we can. Even recognizing that people are going to slip through the cracks. Like even if we were to do a lot of good things like that there there’s I mean this is where Elon’s I I predict universal high income and social unrest.
[00:34:00] It’s like the unrest is unfortunately much closer than we’d like to think. Andrew, let me throw out an idea that I’ve been uh, you know, focused on and trying to work on solutions, which is we have a new pandemic coming and this is a emotional pandemic of fear and anger that it’s going to be spreading especially due to increased uncertainty and concerns over social unrest. And we need to find some vaccination mechanism if you would to protect us against that that growing because the future is a terrible place uh to face from a position of fear. I’m going to move us to a conversation around jobs. This is >> Peter. I have a joke for you um to lighten the mood a little bit. >> Sure. >> Um so I was a CNN contributor and a number of years ago they pitched me a TV show called the future of with Andrew Yang. it was going to be like the future of healthcare, the future of transportation. And then they ran focus groups and said, “Hey, bad news, Andrew.
[00:35:01] People don’t like the future.” So now, everyone listening to your podcast loves the future, embraces the future, trying to make it work for them. >> Well, and and this is this is something we’re going to be announcing at the Abundance Summit. I don’t know when we’re going to particularly air this episode, but we are, you know, one of the biggest concerns is people’s vision of the future is dystopian. Why? Because Hollywood paints every future scenario as killer robots and, you know, dystopian AI. So, if that’s the future you’ve learned, you know, why would you want Xmachina or Black Mirror or Terminator? Uh, and we need to paint better versions of the future. We need visions that are more Star Trek. As Elon said on the pod that Dave and I did with him, we we need more Rodenberry and and less Cameron in that regard. All right, let’s jump. >> I used to have a slide, Peter, saying like it’s either Star Trek or Mad Max. >> Yeah. >> Uh and you kind of veer towards one or the other. >> Yeah, we have two we have these two futures in superp position and we need
[00:36:00] to collapse the waveform in one of those. Right to Alex’s point that we’re speedrunning all >> I think they are both happening and and and also I I want to reach for some sort of Strauss how generation hypothesis type theory that it’s cyclical with some time scale of 80 years like somehow after World War II tail fins are getting added to cars in the ’ 50s and60s and people were were reading the golden age of science fiction but now people are watching Lord of the Rings and fantasy rather than science fiction like fantasy is completely overwhelming scienceiction words. If you look at trends over time, I guess maybe Andrew to put that in question form, how much of generational pessimism do you think is actually generational? How much of it is cyclical versus periodic trends that’ll just people will eventually cycle back to optimism after something bad has happened? Well, I I’m a numbers guy, uh, Alex, and one of the the numbers that really haunts me is that young people socialize, uh, and get together about
[00:37:01] 50% less than we all did in our 20s. >> And and I see gatherings as optimistic events. Like even if you decide to have a little party at your house, uh, you have to assume that uh, people will want to come. You have to assume that they’ll like your food. you have to assume that, you know, your house can accommodate them. Um, you know, they won’t trash the place. Um, and so to to me, like you could go hand in hand with like in real life social gatherings and how good people are going to feel. Um, and um, right now, unfortunately, we’re getting together less and less. >> Yeah. All right. I am going to move this conversation towards jobs. So, here is a comment from the uh co-founder of Morning Brew, Austin, who says, “My friend who works at a large PE firm said, quote, “We just had a firmwide meeting about how we don’t need associates anymore.” That’s the first slide, first topic. Uh second one here, the Fed Governor uh Waller highlights
[00:38:01] unusual growth without jobs. Historic anomaly where GDP is expanding while labor market is fragile. GDP grew 1.4% 4% in Q4 of 2025 despite the weakest job creation since 2022. And the third story here to weave in comes from Jack Dorsey. >> Got to be Block. >> Yeah. So Block his company shares so 24% after 4,000 employees got laid off. So this is what Wall Street rewards uh higher profitability from lower costs. So, let’s paint this picture of uh the growing loss of jobs. There’s a lot of conversation out there from other people in the tech community saying, “No, no, no. We’re going to increase the number of jobs.” I think people get confused about entry- levelvel jobs versus, you know, more advanced jobs. Andrew, how do you think about all this? I talked to uh CEO of a publicly traded tech company
[00:39:01] and he said unannounced he said we’re going to fire 15% of our workers and then two years from now we’re going to fire another 20%. And then two years after that we’re going to fire another 20%. He’s like after that don’t know. Um and I take him at his word. You know what I mean? um uh especially after this block illustration where CEOs u are going to have to be ruthless on headcount if they want to keep their own jobs uh and if they want their stock to be healthy. I will also say something kind of bleak and negative. But if you’ve been inside one of these >> then tell us a joke. >> Yeah. Then may I’ll tell you a joke. But if you’ve been inside one of these uh large corporations, you kind of sense instinctively that 40% of the people uh aren’t really indispensable, shall we say? You know, it’s like uh because I I mean I I’ve worked in startups and in startups uh like everyone is I mean, you know, even in
[00:40:00] startups like you know, not everyone’s indispensable all the time. Um but >> but there’s a much more of a culture of uh of making of finding problems and solving problems in a in a company versus laying back. >> Oh yeah. And I mean it’s one reason why I love startups so much, you know, like like I I find them to be uh pure utilization of uh the soul like energy, talent, um optimism, etc. Um, so I think publicly traded companies are going to fire white collar workers uh very very quickly and the easiest people to fire are the people you haven’t hired yet, you know, so that they’re they’re not going to hire a bunch of whippers snappers and that’s showing up in the numbers where the college premium is quickly evaporating. Um, I do think that uh these changes are going to apply to small private companies too. I’ll use Noble Mobile as an example. We were hiring junior engineers or trying to for the last several months and then our CTO
[00:41:01] came and said, “Hey, I don’t think we need to hire for that role because the AI tools are now good enough.” Like if if you have uh like a strong managerial type. Um the the comparison I make is that you used to have pyramids uh and someone said I would hire three juniors for every you know senior and then now um you have columns maybe so you have like a senior and then one junior and you’re good you know and so if you’re a young person then uh you never make it into one of these environments to get trained and learn and uh develop and ascend. And and so that’s one of the things that’s going to be driving the despair is that for all these young people that thought the way I did, probably you all did too, get good grades, get into a good school, get a good job, have a good >> social contract. >> Yeah. Like you know that the steps three and four are going to be um harder and
[00:42:00] harder uh to find >> and that’s going to cause a lot of anger if I can’t get a job, can’t get a house, can’t get a wife or a husband and you know and can’t have a family. uh that is what causes social unrest and anger towards those you know tech companies uh or those investors that made that future destroyed the American dream that we had. So let’s bring it back. What’s the advice for someone in college today or someone a junior senior in high school? What’s the new strategy? We’ve talked on this pod a lot because we’re all entrepreneurs as are you. That entrepreneurship is ultimately the future career. It’s not working for somebody else. It’s working for yourself. That’s what I would like for my kids. It’s not cut out for everybody. What advice are you giving people? >> You know, it’s similar, Peter, in that uh the only career path you can rely on is entrepreneurship uh and owning your own future and path. But a lot of people aren’t cut out for that. Um, and I’m I’m
[00:43:01] actually going to look at my two boys, one of whom is 13, one of whom is 10. Um, one of them is definitely not cut out for that. Um, you know, and and so you’re you’re trying to guide people on a path that isn’t going to be right for, in my opinion, 80% of people because entrepreneurship’s really really difficult. Uh, and um, so what one thing I say to parents is the success factors for our kids are the same as they ever were. Uh it’s grit, it’s perseverance, it’s coachability, it’s sociability, uh it’s caring about something. Um it’s hustle, it’s believing that your efforts can actually pay off. Um the one of the single biggest factors and whether your kids have have those attributes is screen time. Like you give them too much screen time and their uh self-control goes down, their ability to focus goes down, like all this stuff. Um, so you know the the shorthand for parents is try and keep your kids off of screens and social media to the extent you can.
[00:44:01] Uh, and try and train them to be an awesome asskicking human being regardless of circumstances and then they’ll have a chance. Um, knowing that their course of study might not matter. That’s like the big thing is to be like look um you know to the extent your course of study matters is it just like it’s how to think, how to approach things, how to care about uh you know learning and and development. Um but the actual subject matter it could be anything. um and and knowing too that to the extent that some of our kids can be channeled towards the trades uh and um jobs that we’re going to need because you know the simplest examples I use is and Elon might disagree with me but like you know I’m pretty confident I’m right. We’re not going to have a robot plumber anytime soon. We’re not going to have a robot HVAC repair um person anytime soon. Like all of the old buildings will still need electricians of which there’s a massive shortage. So if if you have like a young person who might be handy
[00:45:03] um and let’s say they’re a guy, you know, like it it like not a bad thing. I mean, you know, like you you skip the indebtedness, you skip a lot of things. >> This is also the women become entrepreneurs and all the men become plumbers. And >> what was the gender angle there, Andrew? >> That’s great. >> Well, it it’s just that it it’s more likely for uh like a man to pursue um like some of these trades like statistically. Um and and what we’ve done is we’ve stigmatized the trades for everybody. Um and then we we should be saying um to men in particular, trades are cool. Uh you know, really good solid steady job. Like don’t worry about >> Well, if you’re a data center builder, you have a hell of a future right now. So there’s all sorts of areas that you could apply this. >> Yeah. The question of when an Optimus or pick your favorite robot is able to do that. Yeah. Elon’s vision is, you know, next three years if even if it’s eight years, right? I mean we the the progress we’re seeing in robotic software and
[00:46:00] robotic agility and progress is stunning what we’ve seen in >> data centers yes I can see robots building them um in like a you know some foreseeable time frame plumber no like uh it’s just that because like the human is just going to have an easier time knocking on your door being like hey what’s the problem coming in like doing the thing >> can we talk time frames Andrew yeah please >> when I think about when I think about the time frames here the challenging time frame uh where UBI stimulus checks capital into to sort of quelch the fear and uncertainty is like the 1 to threeyear time frame you know bringing bringing universal basic services I think is you know starts coming in maybe in 3 years to the 5 8-year time frame right I I I’ve always viewed that uh you know the challenges are the next 3 to 8 years And then on the back side of that is abundance where people have access to
[00:47:01] everything they need. Do you agree with that time frame, that layout? >> Hey, Peter, I love your time frame because it’s actually very very optimistic. Uh, you know, I mean, you’re talking to the preeminent um proponent of UBI. And if you were like, yeah, UBI next one to three years, I would take it a hundred times out of 100. Uh, you know what I mean? like uh even as I’m the guy who’s saying like we should do this and it’s totally possible. Um so I hope you’re right. I I hope we end up heading down this road over uh the timeline you laid out. Um because the truth of it is that uh and this is like the Buckminister Fuller quote uh that the race between utopia and dystopia will be decided in like the very last moment um kind of thing that that um you know that there’s like a race on and um the dystopian march is uh is going on along at a pretty nice clip, shall we say? And then the utopian march, it’s like uh um
[00:48:01] fits and starts uh in in my view. Um but it’s one reason why I would urge people who have the capacity to to do more to do what they can uh to do what we can. Um because like Utopia is like a deliberate choice. Uh and it’s going to require like a group of innovators like you all and the folks that we collectively know um to do what we do and and build But may maybe Andrew just to press this point, what is your expectation regarding the timeline for humanoid robots making themselves available for plumbing services to the broad American public? >> Oh, so again, I don’t foresee robot plumbers for quite some time because the home environment is like, you know, especially like a home you haven’t been in, uh, like the the rest of it, it’s like, you know, um, you’d rather send a human and the human’s not that expensive in in that context. Whereas like a data center, the whole thing is controlled and controllable and then you you know uh like you’d have
[00:49:02] humans still in there but like you’d also have a ton of robots and I think people sense that. Um can >> can I persuade you to put a number to the not for some time? Is it like 10 years that that you think we get humanoid robot plumbers? 20 years what’s the the precise time scale you envision? I think human plumbers are safe um for at least 10 years and probably significantly longer. >> Wow. Well, isn’t that then the solution to it in your mind at least to technical the technological disemployment? Let let’s just ramp up the trades and the trades will absorb the excess of so-called white collar surplus. Why isn’t that the solution? >> Oh, it’s part of it, Alex. And unfortunately, there’s going to be a lot of competition for those jobs. Um but like the numbers don’t work out. uh to your point it’s like you have a certain number of plumbers per uh like capita and then you know you can’t have like 10x that number >> but but look at the look at the sectors with balm’s cost disease like healthcare like why can’t everyone have one or or
[00:50:02] not everyone but the wealthiest portion of the society and this is a thought experiment this isn’t a policy prescription have like one or two personal health care assistants as one of several classes or you know personal plumbers, personal assistants, and absorb the labor surplus. That way, >> you’re certainly going to see a significant proportion of Americans uh whose job it is to serve the top layer, the top 20%. You’re going to see nannies, you’re going to see um personal assistants, you’re going to see personal trainers, you do now. uh you know and and but I I will say if you look at home healthcare aids as a profession um the turnover is rampant because it’s very difficult isolating work and the average compensation is $35,000 a year for a home healthcare aid. So if you say hey that’s going to be the job of the future like none of the people listening to this right now want to be a home healthcare aid. Um like it it’s you know in one of my jokes in one of my books was like I was a home healthcare aid for
[00:51:00] one day and I wanted to tap out you know and and so if if if you were to ask like millions of people be like hey bathe grandma and and that’s what you’re going to do as like your job forever like you know that it’s very very few people are cut out for that and the people that are doing it right now often are doing it because it’s the only job on offer >> they have to do it. Yeah. Hey, uh, Andrew, you had a book come out last month. Uh, uh, tell us about it, and I love the title of it. >> I’m sure it’s very aptly named, Hey Yang, Where’s My Thousand Bucks? Um, you can see the image. That’s me with some money. Um, the alternate title you’ll enjoy even more. It’s, uh, Hey, Am I racist or are you Andrew Yang? >> Oh, no. So, what’s the book about? Um uh the the book’s about the ins and outs of um trying to make utopia happen over this last number of years. Uh and I sensed that this was going to be kind of a fraught time. So I wanted to write
[00:52:00] something uh lighthearted and humorous um while also trying to get some ideas across. Um uh so it it was uh a really fun process, a lot easier than writing my other non-fiction books. Um and I’m happy to say people are enjoying it. So, if if you’re if you want like a laugh that’ll make you think, um I think it’s a good choice. >> You know, Andrew, you’re going to be joining us at the Abundance Summit uh this coming Sunday. Excited. Can you bring a couple of books with you? >> Um I I think I’ll have a whole crate or your team might have already ordered a crate. >> Oh, great. Then I’m happy, you know, but have uh Yeah, thank you. Every By the way, this is uh this is funny. Peter, have you written a book? >> I have a couple. >> Yeah. So then you know, and I sense maybe the rest of you have too, but if if you want to pray on someone when they’re vulnerable, uh like get to them when they have a book coming out because then they’re just like, “Oh, I have thoughts, you know, and like I wrote them down.” And then if you’re
[00:53:01] like, “I want to hear your thoughts.” Then they’ll be like, “Oo, someone wants to hear my thoughts.” It’s like a very vulnerable >> Alex is bringing 600 copies of Solve Everything, which is a book slash paper that uh we co-authored mostly under Alex’s genius. So excited for both of your works of of art and intelligence to make it there. >> This episode is brought to you by Blitzy, autonomous software development with infinite code context. Blitzy uses thousands of specialized AI agents that think for hours to understand enterprise scale code bases with millions of lines of code. Engineers start every development sprint with the Blitzy platform, bringing in their development requirements. The Blitzy platform provides a plan, then generates and pre-ompiles code for each task. Blitzy delivers 80% or more of the development work autonomously while providing a guide for the final 20% of human development work required to complete
[00:54:00] the sprint. Enterprises are achieving a 5x engineering velocity increase when incorporating Blitzy as their preIDE development tool, pairing it with their coding co-pilot of choice to bring an AI native SDLC into their org. Ready to 5x your engineering velocity? Visit blitzy.com to schedule a demo and start building with Blitzy today. >> I want to take us forward to a tweet you sent out that went viral. Um, which is the end of the office. Um, AI will replace large numbers of white collar jobs in 12 to 18 months. 20 to 50% of 70 million US office workers could be displaced. What happens to all of this real estate? And we saw this over COVID take a a sharp hit and now a a double tap to the head. Yeah. Uh so if you play out block times 10,000
[00:55:00] where not to say there are 10,000 blocks because there aren’t. So um but uh there are going to be private companies again making choices um that are quite similar. Uh and so you’re going to have fewer workers who head to an office. Uh, you’re going to have commercial districts under tremendous pressure, which we did see under COVID. You’re going to have folks questioning the value of a college degree because there’s not like a high-paying corporate job waiting for you on the other side. Um, uh, and it it’s going to get nasty and dark and and I do rely upon some of my friends who are more normal than I am. So, what do I mean by that? It’s like one one friend my age, I’m 51 now. Um, and one of my jokes is like I’m lucky not to get dumber in any given month. Uh, where while AI just gets uh, you know, twice as smart. Um, so like eventually we just have to raise our hands and say, you know what, like asking us all to compete against uh, um, AI is probably not going to work out. Um, but my my friend is u is 50 years
[00:56:01] old, has three kids, has a mortgage, has a corporate job at a bank, and uh, and he uh was recently laid off. Uh, and so then like what’s the next move for him? Um, you know, and and so I’ve been very encouraging. Um, but that that’s the kind of place I turn to see like what is the By the way, he’s got a college degree, you know, six figure job, like you know, educated pillar of uh the BBS. Um, and um, and then you imagine him losing his job and then not being able to find another one that pays him the same. uh and then how how that plays out in his town um and the surrounding suburbs where some people are going to start selling their houses. Um and one of the things I put in this note which uh it was not just a tweet, it was a blog post that went somewhat viral at uh like I have a Substack. Um I said you might want to put your home up for sale first because you don’t want to be last.
[00:57:00] like you know if if you live in Westchester County or some of the peninsula suburbs like people are going to be selling. So if you can get a reasonable price um at the front of the line uh you’d much prefer that than trying to wait everything starts unwinding. Um that’s you know and of course we we one one quick follow on there. We’ve seen in fact uh the bankruptcy rate in colleges uh start to skyrocket right because who wants to get that much of a you know debt and like you said the majority the highest the the group with the highest unemployment rate is college graduates. Yeah. >> Yeah. you’re starting to see um debt delinquency rates rise, mortgage delinquency rates rise, like the the personal financial distress is uh is ratcheting up. Uh and you know, we you’ve probably seen a lot of the stats where, you know, significant proportions, call it half of Americans
[00:58:02] have limited savings, are living essentially paycheck to paycheck. Like I know people who resemble this who are college grads who have had, you know, multi-deade long careers who I think are doing great and then I like have coffee or dinner with them and then you’d like press a little bit and they’re super stressed because they borrowed money to send their one kid to college and I was like, “Oh my gosh, like this much like I thought you were.” It just goes to show too, I mean, you know, it’s like I’m like I’m not normal. You guys are not normal. Most of the people listening to this are not normal. like if you hang out with normal Americans, it’s like a real splash of water. Um and and so uh you’re seeing the distress pick up by the numbers. Uh you know, you can look at any of like the credit card rates like all that stuff like it’s it it’s starting like people are less and less able to meet their um obligations uh financial or otherwise. Don’t you don’t you think though Andrew this whole notion of a life path or
[00:59:00] career path where you go to college and then you graduate and you get a so-called white collar job and then you have a stable life in suburbia or whatever the cliche is is such a modern invention. Humanity has existed for thousands of years prior to any notion of everyone goes to college, everyone si sits in yeah hundreds of depending on how you count uh sits in commercial real estate at a desk job and does some stuff, moves papers around and then goes home, commutes back and forth. This is such a modern 20th 21st century invention that’s in some sense evolutionarily highly unnatural for people to be spending their time on this anyway. and that in some sense it would be far better at least more ergonomic for for most people to be doing something other than this like really cliched life story. >> You know, Alex, I agree that it’s something of a modern invention that’s about to get uh uninvented. You know, the problem is that all of these people came of age uh and u made life decisions
[01:00:02] uh based upon something that was true um during their lifetime. um that’s going to become untrue. And and so again, I’d put you uh in the shoes of either a young person or a parent trying to decide, am I gonna go to college? And it’s like, well, um shoot, like traditionally going to college, I mean, I’m going to guess all of us went to college, just a guess. And and so then >> Alex has like a half dozen degrees. >> Yeah. Yeah. And and so then then um you know, so if someone comes to you and says, “Hey, uh guess what? that entire path got deinvented. So, um like figure it out. Um then are you going to pivot at age 17 18 or if you’re a parent of a 17 18 year old are you going to say hey guess what all that stuff’s obsolete and I I wrote another Substack post about like is college still worth it being honest being like look my kids are going to college almost certainly unless they become so savvant entrepreneurs or shutins um but part of it is that I can
[01:01:02] afford it and to me them going to college is about this social development as much or more than it is the vocational Yeah. Building a network and adult daycare. Yes. But yes, that that’s what I said, Alex. I said my strongest memory of going to Brown was uh my college girlfriend leaving me for another guy uh and then being sad for a semester or two. And so like my major learning from Brown was how to deal with a breakup, which I’m going to suggest is a very important life skill. It served me very well. Like >> on the other hand, simulating a breakup at the tender age can probably be afforded at a much lower cost than brown tuition >> probably. Um but but again like you know we’re in a circle where I you know like and I was honest it’s like look I’m not going to be cuz I think it’s disingenuous to be like hey don’t do the thing that my kids are totally going to do. Like you know what I mean? It’s like I I was honest like look my kids are going to go to college and like like so um but it’s just a much worse value
[01:02:00] proposition. um for most families uh than is being sold to them. Um and and so like I both of those things are true. Um so that that’s really what uh you know I’d like to suggest to folks is that um you know it’s like these paths are still going to be there and lots of people are going to take them. They’re just not going to lead to as steady ground. >> I’m going to move us to another fun and important subject. We’ve sort of danced around this which is the impact on of AI on youth and on populations. So here we go. Population decline in China uh is extraordinary. China’s birth rate reported at 75 year low. Uh the demog this demographic shift is fueling uh trend in particular because AI is being seen as a partner option. Young women in China are opting for AI boyfriends, seen as a real alternative to a life partner. You don’t have to deal with your
[01:03:00] boyfriend’s snarky attitude. Uh, and one in eight teens are seeking emotional support from AI chatbot. 64% of teens use chat bots, 12% of them for emotional support. Andrew, thoughts on this? Um, yeah, one of my kids resembles this where he he u doesn’t interface very readily with other people generally. Um, and so he already is joking about having an AI girlfriend. Um, and then his mom and I are like, “No, no, real girlfriend.” And then he’s like, “Nah, AI, >> your AI girlfriend will not leave you.” >> Um, yeah. So, uh, like this trend is playing out in my household. Um that this is part of my sadness for the death of partying. Um because uh you know like if if you’re at home on your screen uh it’s hard to meet a girl and um easy to meet an AI chatbot
[01:04:00] because AI chatbots right there. Um so uh I see this trend unfortunately growing um more and more and I I wish it were otherwise. >> Yeah. Other comments? But well, so I have to I I guess press on the the point. Andrew, it sounds like in in some sense you’re concerned about it using I I think Peter’s language, a growing abundance or overabundance of romance. It’s it’s artificial romance, but it it’s it’s an abundance of romance nonetheless. At the same time, I I I look to to China. There’s this notion in China of I I think it’s pronounced Tong Ping, lying flat. uh where due to pressures of society many youth are again sort of the the cliche but choosing to opt out of the the so-called rat race uh and instead staying home as as shutins or in Japan the hiko mori again similar concept but isn’t this in some sense a reflection of an abundance of entertainment and artificial romance and
[01:05:02] in in that sense uh why wouldn’t you reasonably expect that as we achieve abundance If you think we we’re going to achieve abundance in other sectors as well, not just sort of the personal lifestyle type sectors that again we come back and have this conversation and now we’re drowning in abundance in all these other areas. And no, I I Andrew, I’m encouraging my my children to stay away from abundance because I want them to to work hard and experience a traditional in some sense scarce scarcity based lifestyle. >> Um you know the word that popped into my mind, Alex, is friction. Um I’m married have been for 15 years. Uh and it’s far from frictionless. I mean um now the AI chatbot uh is there and ever present and ever supportive and all all that stuff. Um and so you have to have a tolerance for a certain degree of friction to get married and have a
[01:06:01] family. And these are things that I see as positives on multiple levels. I see them as positives personally. I see them as positives uh society. I see them as positives for the species. You know, I think reproducing is a good thing. And and it it’s uh you know, to to be a husband and father and and the rest of it. Um or you know, wife and mother. I mean, uh you just have to put up with a lot of Um, and our young people, uh, you know, I think are not used to putting up with tons of like in in their entertainments and interactions. Um, and I talk about my college girlfriend. I mean, you have like a lot of false starts and like trial and error and be like, “Oh, I like I like this sort of person.” Like, oh, maybe that that you know, it it’s um, and so that’s what I want for my kids. That’s what I want for other people’s kids, too. I want them to be out there meeting other real life flesh and blood humans, having misadventures and
[01:07:00] adventures, and then eventually uh settle down, have a family, have kids. Um I don’t think that’s going to be easy at all. Uh I think what what we’re talking about now with work um for men, if you don’t have a steady paycheck and path, then you don’t feel good about yourself and then you don’t think you’re worthy of uh partnering. Um, you know, and by the way, some women might agree with you that >> this is such a a gend I mean just like note for the record seems like a somewhat gendered uh vision for for the role of post scarce economics. One last question if I may. I’m curious about the neither the the quote unquote man nor the quote unquote woman, but the AI side. So, do you have a position or does the forward party, I guess, have a position on AI personhood? Should should the AIs have a a say or rights in this entire discussion? >> Um, right now I’m pre- AI personhood. Um, but I’m open-minded. >> I love it.
[01:08:00] >> See, I want to go to you on this on this subject of AI companionship and and youth. Uh, you know, the dropping birth rate is not just China. It’s Japan’s at an all-time low. South Korea, much much of the world other than Africa uh and parts of India is uh massive decline. But you know, you and I both have boys at age 14. Uh how do you think about about AI and uh in normal relationships? >> So keep uh take into account that I have a radical positivity bias in my in my view of the world, right? I think people will adapt. When we were growing up, our parents were like, “Oh my god, you’re on the phone non-stop. that phone’s going to be stuck to the year. You don’t know how to communicate with anybody else or socialize. It was the same conversation, but something is a bit different now. We saw a photograph. We sent our son to a kind of hang out with his friends. And he sent back a photograph of a dark basement with six kids sitting independently on their phones and all you could see was their cell phones, not talking to each other at all. And we’re like, “Oh my god.” And this was a
[01:09:01] driving Lily to do this uh teenager mindset uh workshop that she’s doing. Uh Andrew, I think you dropped some really deep wisdom there. You know, a lot of the reason we get married is to work out our deepest issues and bring the uh biggest uh trauma that we have to the surface and process it in that intimacy of a marriage over a number of years. And if we um stop having that type of a relationship as adults, then that burden of processing that will go to somewhere else. uh and so this is going to be an interesting evolution to see where this goes. It could be that AI processes that and is able to do that. But that visceral uh human experience, partying, uh falling in love, going through that hassle, etc. is the essence of all of this. I for years was convinced I wouldn’t get married and wouldn’t have kids. Um when I got married, about half the people came just to physically witness the fact that it was actually happening. Um, and the the but the but
[01:10:03] the grounding and the the reality of being a human being that it brings you to deal with a spouse and deal with kids and deal with the the uh process they’re all going through and watching that is such a a powerful one. I can’t imagine now not doing that, right? And so what does it look like if a somebody marries an AI uh and then just switches AIs over time, etc. We’ll just have to adapt to that. That’s what we tell our son. It’s like, look, AI girlfriend can’t have kids. Unacceptable. Uh, you know, need grandkids. Reprogram reprogram or no college tuition for you. >> Uh, >> we don’t go that far, but uh, >> so pro pro-atalism and also pro- UBI. >> Yeah, man. Guilty. Andrew, I I am curious given, you know, this this program here, you know, our focus, you know, is one of the top, you know, if not the top AI and exponential tech podcast out there, isn’t about politics.
[01:11:01] It’s about technology typically. But given the fact that we have you and uh the Forward Party, the American Party, whatever it might be, I’m curious about your thoughts here on this particular article. So pro and anti- AI regulation groups are amassing a war chest uh for lobbying, right? War chest of $265 million. Lobbying spent by AI companies surged 200% in the last 24 months. 170 million were contributed to the 2024 election cycle. Um your thoughts on this uh on this topic here? >> Yeah. Um, I’m not really seeing the the money from the anti- AI groups. Like I I see a lot of money from >> Typically not very rich. >> Yeah. Yeah. Right. Exactly. Um, but by by the way um the folks who are dubious of AI like those ranks grow every day and the polling let’s say if you were to ask a basic question like hey should AI be more regulated than it is that gets
[01:12:01] 80%. And and one joke is that there are more regulations to open a hot dog stand on the streets of New York, definitely New York, um than there are of of launching like a large language model. Um uh now all the money’s on the other side. Um and if if you had a like in my mind a nuanced intelligent conversation, you could be like, “Okay guys, we want to do this, we don’t want to do that.” But like right now there’s this massive divide between what the companies want and the companies want what companies want. The companies want look we just want to do what we want. Like stay out of our way. We’re just going to do what we want. Um and then um the vast majority of elected officials are right there with them because this is where all the money and the growth is. Uh you know if you’re even the governor of Pennsylvania, you’re like, “Hey, we’re opening data centers. I’m pro data center. I’m pro growth.” Like yeah, like I’m on board. Um, and so then there’s this popular sentiment that’s on the other side that has not actually found
[01:13:00] its way into the political system yet because no Republican wants to pick it up yet. Very few Democrats want to pick it up yet, but it’s where most Americans are. So, so that you’re going to wind up with a regulatory regime that’s very, very pro business. Um, and a lot of people listening to this be like, “Sure.” Um, and then most Americans are just going to be looking at it being like, “Yeah, like that happened.” Um, but most Americans are uh going to feel like they’re on the outside of this one. >> I want to bring us back before we uh we go to an AMA section back to the conversation earlier about this idea of an American party. Um, what do you imagine might unfold over the next few months? Uh I think that uh there’s going to be an independent candidate and they’re going to get an outsized amount of support um despite attacks from one side or the other. Uh and then the rubber’s going to hit the road as to whether there are multiple candidates, a primary, a process, like a genuine
[01:14:01] competition. Um I have those conversations um all the time. Uh what’s what’s fun is that among Andrew’s projects, so like I I’m for alleviating poverty at scale via universal basic income. Um I don’t foresee that happening without some kind of political realignment. Um which then makes me pro political realignment. Um >> have you been having these conversations with Scaramucci as well? >> Yeah. Yeah. Anthony and I are in touch and friendly on it. Um uh some of the other figures that you’d imagine. Um but it the ranks are growing all the time. Um even folks who were uh in one party or another now have just thrown in the towel said like I I I’m out. I I I give up. >> Do you think do you think Elon I mean have you had a conversation with Elon about this or or DM’d with him? >> Um Elon and I DM’d I had talked to his team. Um I get the sense that right now Elon’s um on board with uh the administration um and that there are a
[01:15:00] lot of people in his circle that are saying look, you know, we need the administration. We’ve got like too much stuff. Um but I I also think that folks kind of know that he lost his own person and uh and and if he were uh you know if he had his brothers um I think that you know things might look a little different. >> Amazing. You know, the the big conversation here is can AI fix poverty? Uh, you know, the vision that I painted God 14 years ago with my first book, Abundance, and the new book that’s coming out, uh, we are as gods, is in fact we’re demonetizing and democratizing access to food, water, energy, healthcare, education, all of these things. And there is a flip side of of this technological uh challenging societal period uh where we people are godlike and they have access to everything they need. Um you know the biggest challenge on that
[01:16:00] front on on flip side of this is going to be purpose. Can you use that technology to do something purposeful? Can you be a creator versus a consumer? Right? A couch potato is the consumer and the creator is the entrepreneur out there. It’s uh Star Trek versus Mad Max as you said. Um do you think that AI can in fact uplift every man, woman, and child? >> I think it’s uh certainly a possibility and and my goal is to try and get us there. Um AI is going to create trillions of dollars of value for sure. It’s going to completely transform the way we work and live. Uh and the question is uh who wins in that world and who doesn’t? Um when you say can AI fix poverty that suggests that people who are currently poor um will not be and uh that’s where I think we should try and go. Um right now the path of least resistance is that of the trillions of dollars of value that get generated. Uh it’s going to be in the hands of the firms and then the um
[01:17:02] stakeholders in those firms. Um and and then and you know if you do the math like that that’s a very small slice of the population. Um and so the question is how the value gets from within those uh confines out uh to let’s say the broader American public though from the look of this picture you’re thinking even bigger than America which I love. Um the so for for me um you know like I take shots at uh what’s happening in America but I I think there’s a chance that AI does um fix poverty globally. >> Amazing. >> I have a I have a I have a simple thought on this. Um you know if you can use AI to reduce poverty of access like education, healthcare, etc. faster than you can fix uh the poverty of power like rights and ownership. then you uh then you win. If AI boosts productivity while
[01:18:00] concentrating ownership then you get worse and so poverty gets worse and so you can you can solve it by having AI go for poverty of access solve for that and that’ll help >> that so much of this discussion in my mind is focusing on redistribution rather than growing the pie. I’m I’m curious Andrew what is the you talk about Star Trek versus Mad Max. What is the most Star Trekian type scenario that you envision realistically happening over the next 10 to 20 years that radically grows the pie beyond just the separate discussion of how best to redistribute wealth? Oh, >> I mean, Alex, shoot. like everyone can see the pie is going to grow uh like very very quickly because a AI is going to do the work of millions of humans in like hours instead of years and then do the work better like run down all these loose balls that we never would have identified like uh enhance the discovery of life-saving drugs uh material sciences like uh you know like
[01:19:01] everything is going to so the the pie is going to grow I mean it can’t not in in that scenario. Um and so uh you know like the most Star Trekian thing I can imagine is that and this by the way is the vision I’m going to talk about at abundance is that so UBI is like a piece of the puzzle but to me it’s not like the answer because individuals families want purpose community uh values development training like all these a place to go in the morning like all these things that people want and there would be an explosion of entrepreneurship to what See said it’s like if you or what might have been Dave like if you put money into people’s hands of course people are going to start all sorts of new businesses initiatives or going to you know get out more um but this most Star Trekian thing would be if you had um a caring and
[01:20:00] nurturing economy and a health and wellness economy and an arts and creativity economy and then people uh got to do various things on various um um like wavelengths and then get rewarded, get recognized, like self-organized around these things. Like to me, the utopian path is a multivaried economy with multiple currencies around different pursuits of human flourishing. And uh I I played Dungeons and Dragons as a kid um and role playing games. So maybe it’s like a bit of that coming in where you have like different classes with like different strengths and weaknesses and different pursuits. But one of the comps I make is that at this point we should be getting paid to go to the gym instead of paying ourselves. Like someone should be paying us to go to the gym >> and then the personal trainer who’s there whipping us into shape should be getting these like wellness bucks that he can or she can then go out and like use to like go to the game and like uh you know like live a great life. Um, so that’s the most Star Trekian thing and I I do think uh we can get there because
[01:21:01] it’s one of the only um paths that makes sense to me in terms of people living the lives they want to live. >> Just ju just to be clear on that this is this is fascinating by the way your your sort of Star Trek scenario is for different verticals of the of the economy or different sectors like health and wellness versus education. Do I understand correctly that you want sort of nonfgeable currencies with one currency or credit system per sector? >> Well, I mean they could be funible uh you know >> but not between fungeible between sectors like could I trade a gym credit for an education credit? >> Maybe you could. And so there are a couple of really fun things about this, Alex. I have 300,000 American Express points right now. Uh like how much does it cost American Express for me to have those points? zero. >> Zero because I haven’t done anything with them yet. Did I modify my behavior to get those points? I 100% did. Um, and so like you can imagine, by the way,
[01:22:01] it’s also an move if I show you my American Express reward points or the money in my bank account, but it might not be an move if I showed you all the points I got like visiting the nursing home or tutoring kids. Like, it might actually just make me like a person who does a lot in the community. and then maybe I get honored at the baseball game like that there like the way that right now military veterans get honored um you know at the game. So that there are things that we can do that make it just like >> social credit. >> Yes. I mean so what what’s funny Peter is that I was prohibited from saying the word social credit because I’m Asian and uh and people you know look at it and be like oh freaking like you know like dystopian Chinese like authoritarian government like measuring like blah blah blah. Like it’s not like that. It’s like doing stuff that people want to do and enjoy and want to self-organize around. Um, and then >> some some sort of centralized multivariate credit-based scheme for shaping human behavior, >> but it doesn’t need to be centralized to
[01:23:01] your point. I mean, like you you could put it in the hands of like local municipalities, the church, the church can assign it, right? The church can assign what they think are incredible support that their community needs. >> And and there, by the way, there are communities doing a version of this right now. Um, and they tend to be religious communities. >> All right, I want to move us next to our AMA with our mates. Andrew, the way this works is each of us picks a question. Uh, as our guest, I’m going to ask you to go first. Uh, where do you want to hit? >> Well, gez, I have to pick number three. >> Okay. Um, UBI is the most important topic right now. What can individuals like me do to help accelerate its adoption? Yes, you are wise and smart. Uh uh right now >> this is this is law and uh deli delitier. >> Yes. Um so so the best thing you can do is become an individual advocate like uh put on social media to say look like I think we should adopt universal basic income. Um and then to the extent that
[01:24:01] there are a couple of organizers and organizations around that um you should follow them. A guy named Scott Santins SNS is excellent. >> Big fan of Scott. >> Yeah. Yeah. a big fan of Scott and also me. Um, you can come to andrewyang.com and I have a um a Substack with hundreds of thousands of members. Um, and I’m pushing in this direction. Uh, and then just keep making the case. You know, when there’s a candidate who comes around, show up and ask a question to say like, hey, universal basic income. Uh, and to the extent that you know folks in your community that might be able to help others, uh, you know, like u, push them in that direction. But thank you. I totally agree. Dave, >> quick point there. Very quick point. The please when you talk to people about UBS, stress that it is not socialism. >> Yes. >> Okay. Uh, Professor Blondon, your question, please. >> I’ll take uh question number one because it’s so hard. This is really, really tricky. So, I’m a public school superintendent. I want my students to be
[01:25:00] prepared for AI. I use AI daily and I understand it. That’s a great start. But where do we begin? And that’s from Ralph Ceir Jr. Uh yeah, really really tough time actually. I I feel for you and specifically because do you guide your students to go to college or not? It’s a really really tricky question. But the one hard and fast answer is encourage them to use AI as much as you can and get them into groups. You know, as Andrew said, there’s way too little socializing going on between people. So get them into groups that are also experimenting with AI. You know, the new thing is Open Claw. There’ll be something new every single week. keep them on the tip of the spear and keep them talking to each other about it as they use it and the answers will emerge. The more difficult question of like, okay, what do you study next? Where do you go next? Hopefully, that’ll resolve relatively quickly. Right now, as long as they follow the normal path, apply to college, you know, get in, but keep using AI daily and stay on the front end, something good will happen. Because
[01:26:00] remember, the tailwind of abundance is overwhelmingly strong. So even though there’ll be a lot of disruption, a lot of job displacement, a lot of people that are perturbed, a lot of social unrest, the tailwind is still in your favor in aggregate in in macros. So keeps on thing for Ralph, which is uh please, please, please, when you’re encouraging your students to use AI, it’s not to do their ninth grade homework or their tth grade homework. It’s to do something that they would consider impossible to do. It’s like give your students the objective of, you know, designing a starship to go to Alpha Centtory. What’s involved in doing all of those things? You know, basically giving them the superpower of deployable intelligence to go solve a challenge that they’re they’re blown away by their ability to solve. This is about uplifting uh the capabilities they have. All right. Uh Alex, over to you, pal. I >> I’ll take the softball question, Peter. So, question number five. How is debt
[01:27:00] going to be paid in a hyperdelationary AI economy if scarcity disappears, earnings collapse but debt remains? And this is from poetry to song. It it’s such a softball question. The answer is obvious. We’ll hyperinflate and we know how to do it. If if if the cost of everything goes down to zero because or near zero because we’ve solved everything, we start printing money and everyone becomes billionaires or trillionaires. We we have the state capacity both as a country and as a world to to hyperinflate to compensate against the hyperdelation and that’s probably the easiest numerical way to make everyone billionaires. M se >> uh I’ll also take the softball one number uh two uh which is um UBI who decides how much only for citizens is it scale to wealth is human effort no longer a criteria and this is from quiet us six so uh we’ve talked about this already UBI is not really kind of a moral prize it’s a stability protocol
[01:28:01] right and you you find the amount that is enough for people to survive but not be happy. Okay. Um, citizenship is a political choice, but the economic logic is that whoever participates in the economy needs a floor to prevent that collapse. Uh, when you have this type of a demand uh destruction. Um, so you can do it implicitly through taxes rather than means testing the the the benefit side. But the real the scarcest resource these days is not effort. It’s human coherence. And UBI buys human coherence. It buys stability. >> All right. I’ll take number four. >> Nice work, Sem. I approve that message. I’m your biggest super fan. >> Well, thank you. I thought >> See for vice president under Andrew Yang’s got it. >> Yes. All right. Uh from uh at Steve Trisha Wilson, quote, uh as someone leaving the labor market next year for retirement, what economic disruptions should I be prepared for? First of all, I don’t believe in retirement. I think
[01:29:01] retirement is a four-letter word. Uh, I think you should be looking at what you do next. Uh, I think you should be looking at what you enjoy. How do you create something around a passion that you have that can still earn income, keep you in the game? Uh, retirement is the worst thing for your longevity. But what should you be prepared for next? Well, first of all, have you saved enough money if we hit longevity escape velocity, right? uh if you’re if you’re 65 say and and you’re you’ve saved enough to get to 80. The average US lifespan today is 79, health span is 63. What happens if all of a sudden uh you know new protocols hit and you can make it to 120. Uh so that’s something to think about. Uh the second part of this is we’re going to see rapid inflation uh and then rapid uh deinflation as the cost of things begin to drop towards zero. the rapid inflation in the near term is going to come from the government just printing money uh around
[01:30:00] the whole UBI side. I mean I don’t know if you agree with that uh Andrew in terms of this cycle right we basically have a ton of money being printed like we did during co and then as AI and robotics come in and provide over supply of product and services the prices begin to drop dramatically. Thoughts on that? >> Um that makes sense to me. All right, we’re going to do a second round here uh of uh one question each. Uh Andrew, uh you get to go first. >> Wow. Wow. >> Oh, I have to take in the questions. I have to choose one. >> Yes. >> Um I’ll do number eight. Why not? Um, if I if AI replaces CEO, shareholders, shed a major cost, means of production shift to capital owners, isn’t that the extreme version of wealth concentration? Um, you know, people um make jokes about CEOs being like, “Oh, CEO is firing all these people. Why don’t replace the CEO with
[01:31:00] AI?” Um, like I I think this um questioner MGP Star is actually hitting on something really important. Um, which is what I was suggesting too. It’s like look, if you look at these large corporations, they’re overstaffed. Uh, and you you can make a decision as to like who’s deciding who stays and who goes and then people naturally become very hostile towards the CEO because uh you know that that’s um like the decision maker on that. Um I I I think that in most um places the CEO will be the last to go. um and this is within private companies and public companies. Um and one reason why um CEOs are expensive um is because you kind of need someone. Um and in the scheme of the uh like the enterprise that that cost actually makes sense. Um so I do think though that wealth concentration
[01:32:01] will pick up um because these firms will have fewer workers. >> Thank you Dave. Over to you Bill. >> All right. I’ll take uh number seven then. Uh many Americans rely on gig work like Uber for income. Once AI eliminates those jobs, $400 a month is gone. Who’s addressed this impact? Yeah, I I really >> from a Joe Kingtown. >> Joe King Joe Night, >> right? >> Yeah. I I would uh you have to take agency like nobody is thinking this through for you. The the amount of change and disruption is happening very very quickly. I think Andrew on this pod is one of the few guys really really trying to brainstorm through it. But you see all the friction in in politics. Uh so we we meet with governors all the time. The rate of motion is near zero. So no one is thinking it through for you. That’s the short answer. Do not rely on somebody else to give you the path forward. Start talking to the AI. The AI will give you a better road map
[01:33:00] and a better answer to what you should do next than anyone in politics or anyone out there. you know, corporations are going to be cutting these these jobs. They’re not the ones to talk to. So, get your AI agents up and running. Start talking to them. Ask them what you should be doing next. But you’re absolutely right. This is going away. No one’s creating a road map for you. >> I think it’s Joe King Htown and he’s in Houston. So, if I’m right, Joe, thumbs up. But I I agree with Dave. >> Nice. See, over to you. >> Uh, I will go with um number nine. So FSD um full self-driving will tip because of insurance costs. Once people can’t afford EV insurance, adoption stalls. Isn’t affordability the real point to discuss? And this was from JSBGMC6613. Um so insurance for now is absolutely the hidden governor on autonomy adoption, but it’s transitional, right? Because as safety data improves the underwriting drops and you flip from driver risk to
[01:34:01] systemic risk. Okay. Now we there’s a huge shift coming in this because we won’t be purchasing cars, we’ll be accessing cars, right? So you flip from consumer ownership to subscription models. I want to go back to the best model we’ve seen for this is we’ve already seen this transition in the music business where you had seven or eight music studios selling you the cassette, the CD, the DVD selling you scarcity. Okay. Then we digitized music and now you have iTunes and Spotify delivering abundance on a subscription model. That transition that we’ve seen fully in music, we expect to see in transportation, healthcare, education, energy, anywhere, everywhere. Right? So the affordability matters, but it’s the path to the new model from I own a car. Do I buy miles from an autonomous network? >> All right, AWG, over to you, Bel. That leaves me with number six, which is a fun question. So uh six is what’s the role of nonprofits in the AI economy? How can they safely adopt AI when the lack when I think when when they lack
[01:35:02] the tech and financial resources? And this is from Gus45. Okay, so the elephant in the room, the very center, the beating heart of the AI economy was until very recently a nonprofit, Open AI, and it’s worth nearly a trillion dollars. So I I would question the premise of of these pairs of questions. The the the modern AI economy as it currently exists was arguably created by a nonprofit that then transitioned to what it is now, which is structured as a constellation of entities. But it it is essentially a public benefit company. And I I would again in the spirit of questioning the premise that they lack the the financial resources. I I think I I’ll my hot take for this episode is I think the OpenAI transition from nonprofit to PBC is in fact a template for the future of nonprofits in general, educational and otherwise. One of my fever dreams is to take some of the the largest research
[01:36:01] universities in this country, which are right now nonprofits, and with the help of government, transition them over to being for-profit public benefit companies, and then take them public. I’d love to take Harvard, MIT, Stanford public on the New York Stock Exchange or the NASDAQ. I think it would unlock an enormous amount of societal value because >> can’t wait to have that conversation with the presidents of universities. You know, I I’d love to to I I I don’t trade individual public stocks, but I’d love to buy Harvard and MIT stock on public markets if I could. There’s so much societal value, I think, that right now is being kneecapped because we have so many faculty who are doing their best to try to pretend to be basically uh employed at a nonprofit. They’re they’re handicapping their ability to spin out companies that would be society valuable. Why? because many universities, Stanford is is sort of a quasi exception, but certainly Harvard and MIT are doing their best not to look like venture capital. And I think that these universities become the largest incubators on the planet and the faculty
[01:37:02] get ownership and upside in everything they help incubate and all their rockstar students who succeed. >> Yes. >> Yeah. It’s amazing. I mean, universities turning into incubators and and venture um studios is absolutely the only way it’s going to go >> and survive for them to survive. >> But to do that, they need to escape from from the the the sort of damocles that they’ll be taxed as a for-profit, which right now they’re petrified of. >> Yeah. Amazing. All right, everybody. I hope you’ve enjoyed this AMA. Again, we’re putting out at this week three episodes on Moonshot. So, please subscribe, turn on notifications so you can find out when they come out. If you’ve got questions for the Moonshot Mates, please drop them into the comments. We read them all. If you’ve got uh any outro music that you want to send to us, send it to media diamandis.com. And with that, one of my favorite parts of the show, uh we have an incredible piece of outro music called Moonshots 2035 by Manos and
[01:38:02] Seikka. Uh, Andrew, enjoy this. I think uh this one is especially apppropo for our conversation today. 2028 shelves went dry. 2029 cash 2030. We didn’t like it or not. We got a moonshot. 2035 we made it through. Good times, clear sky, something new. Built from the ashes from old decay. >> Was that you, Peter, in that? It’s all of us. This is amazing.
[01:39:02] >> Oh, this is really an appropriate theme for what we’re talking devastation coming here. And then we get to the other side. >> Well, I I for one feel like closing my eyes and opening them to 2035. So, uh that >> it does. You do that, Andrew. You’ll sleep through the singularity. >> I sleep through a great deal. I don’t like >> that was super fun. It >> was amazing. >> That was We have such an awesome community of uh of creators that follow us, support us. Thank you uh for all of you generating extraordinary music, outro videos, and sometimes intro videos. We love you, Andrew. This was an amazing conversation, pal. Thank you. most important. >> Yes, for sure. >> Well, thank you all. Um, thanks for
[01:40:00] having me and look forward to seeing you uh out at Abundance before. >> Yeah, it’s going to be incredible. We’re on together on Sunday. Yes. >> Y >> much appreciated. See you all soon. Thank you in particular. Thank you, Sim, in particular. Bye, guys. >> If you made it to the end of this episode, which you obviously did, I consider you a moonshot mate. Every week, my moonshot mates and I spend a lot of energy and time to really deliver you the news that matters. If you’re a subscriber, thank you. If you’re not a subscriber yet, please consider subscribing so you get the news as it comes out. I also want to invite you to join me on my weekly newsletter called Metatrends. I have a research team. You may not know this, but we spend the entire week looking at the Metatrends that are impacting your family, your company, your industry, your nation, and I put this into a two-minute read every week. If you’d like to get access to the Metatrends newsletter every week, go to diamandis.com/tatrends. That’s diamandis.com/metatrends. Thank you again for joining us today. It’s a blast for us to put this together
[01:41:00] every week.