[Music] I can go to Panama to Costa Rica to Mexico to Antigua and get stem cells as an American citizen but I can’t get them in the United States when are they going to be legal here you know that is a great question that has been plaguing all of us in the industry for decades now I think the United States is sort of behind the times on this there’s been a lot of controversy over the years about stem cells if your baby was born with an extra set of kidneys extra set of lungs and an extra heart would you throw them out of birth and that’s what you actually have when you have a supply of stem cells that can be used in these purposes let’s do a stem cell 101 so folks understand why folks are excited about stem cells just like you renovate your home to keep it in perfect operating Condition it’s best to renovate with the original materials that were used to build it in the first place everybody Welcome to moonshots Peter dandis here we’re about to have a conversation about a disruptive techn te
[00:01:00] ology in the longevity and health space it’s called stem cells and you probably heard about it but this is a deep dive in stem cells 101 with one of the extraordinary leading figures in the field Dr Bob herui Bob is the chairman founder and CEO of cellularity uh he’s an mdphd 170 patents one of the leading thinkers on using stem cells for autoimmune disease for fighting cancers for other conditions uh he’s an adjunct professor of neurosurgery he’s is a co-founder of Fountain life with me one of the most extraordinary thinkers on the planet uh and he’s going to walk you through where they are today where they’re going why you should consider them uh what you’ve heard about them in the past and why you thought they might not be safe but what the Science and Technology shows us for the future uh for me this is a critically important tool in my longevity and therapeutic tool chest uh I just finished a book called Longevity guide book that talks about how to slow stop reverse aging how
[00:02:02] I’ve used these Technologies to reverse my aging you can check it out in longevity guidebook.com or in the show notes below all right let’s jump into this incredible conversation with Dr Bob hurri welcome to moonshots hey buddy good to see you so I have a question for you off the bat uh I can go to Panama to Costa Rica to Mexico to Antigua I can even go to Bali where uh Genting just created a stem cell facility and get stem cells as an American citizen but I can’t get them in the United States uh when are they going to be legal here uh when are they going to become available you know that is a great question that has been plaguing all of us in the industry for decades now it’s a it’s really a phenomenon related to the very conservative regulatory nature uh of of the FDA and the systems it it at work
[00:03:00] behind testing validating and proving the safety and efficacy of of of Therapeutics and so I personally believe that we’ve been working with stem cells in one form or another for over 30 years in fact bone marrow transplantation is stem cell transplantation so sure this has been around a long time I my personal perspective is that cell therapy in almost any iteration in the unengineered form is intrinsically safe and so that’s why a lot of jurisdictions very very active in Asia you’re going to see more activity in Eastern Europe and in the in the Middle East they are very receptive to at least providing an abbreviated Pathway to approval right and so when you say are they legal which you really asking is have they been approved by the regulatory Community I think the United States is sort of behind the times on this and what it needs is it needs a little bit of Courage it needs to needs a little bit of willingness to accept the fact that the value of the therap itic potential
[00:04:00] to these things outweighs outweighs the potential nominal risk of some uncertainty about long-term safety we’ve been doing stem cell treatments in patients for decades and decades and decades they we do not have that long-term safety signal that should concern people but I do believe that there are other forces behind why there is this very kind of resistant approach to approving and making these products available to patients you know and we’ll talk about this because we know so many people who have had significant positive impacts from cellular medicine from stem cells and I think of it as one of the fundamentals of the prolongevity regenerative medicine decade ahead of us and it’s just sad to have to actually you know flee the country to go and have access to this Tech now I’m biased right um I’m your Vice chairman of of
[00:05:01] cellularity and cellularity is a cellular medicine company full disclosure Bob is in my mind the leading figure in this field he’s the first person to ever really give me what I would call uh you know massive enthusiasm or even religion on stem cells um so I I want to get I want to get into it um I want to do a a stem cell 101 for folks to understand what are they why are they valuable why are folks like flying you know in the in the book behind you Tony Robins photo there uh where you and I co-wrote this I mean the opening chapter talks about him having this massive accident and and going down for stem cell Therapies in in Central America and instead of going you know down the street to do this so let’s do a stem cell 101 so folks understand why folks are excited about stem cells I mean you are
[00:06:00] one of the original Pioneers in this area and I want to get into that but what are stem cells why are they important what’s cellular medicine so look I think everybody understands that at the moment of conception when sperman EDG come together a single cell is created that is the first primordial what we call a totop potent stem cell and from that single cell every cell that ever ever occupies your organs and tissues in your body is derived all 40 trillion all 40 trillion cells that make me up but 40 trillion cells that are being renewed and recycled over and over and over again in your life think about the replication Fidelity of taking one cell and making maybe 20000 to 300 trillion cells in your lifetime from that single cell so think of that’s where the power of stem cells really resides so let me take a step back and try and explain in a in a broader way the significance of this bi olc Al so we
[00:07:01] all come from a single cell that is the first stem cell that ever ever exists with our DNA composition to it and then those cells divide and then some of them specialize to become brain cells hair cells bone cells heart cells and that specialization process is called differentiation what’s what’s really cool about stem cells is they reserve the right to specialize or make a copy of the s that’s what keeps our system capable of going through this constant renovation and renewal process now what’s important to keep in mind is think about the stem cells in every tissue of your body as being your natural repair kit for your body so after birth after I’m sorry after conception from that original totop potent stem cell numerous other versions of these cells including some some cells with take on characteristics of a
[00:08:02] certain tissue type that’s called a tissue lineage they will actually go to build the final tissue and organ they’ll go to build the heart or the brain and some of them will remain in stem form and they St they sit there in what you and I often call the regenerative engine that regenerative engine resides there to participate in the renovation process that keeps us healthy and young so let me slow this down a second so you’re saying okay start with one cell it replicates eventually to form a full embryo um my niece is delivering today so excited uh she has a life Bank USA kit there to uh to store her placental stem cells we’ll get to that in a little bit um but um it becomes that original Tod potent stem cell versus plur poent stem cell we’ll Define that in a minute becomes every tissue type so it becomes skin bone ligament cartilage uh neuron
[00:09:05] hocy lung everything yep um and so those are when a cell differentiates into a tissue type correct but within and you taught me this within every tissue in our body are these uh stem cells that can then differentiate into lung in the lung into liver in the liver you have brain stem cells that can differentiate into brain tissue um you know you used an amazing analogy that I love and I’ve used often and I just wrote about in my uh longevity guide book of the repairman in the Mansion would you would you give that analogy again so what I’ve often said is that just like you renovate your home to keep it in perfect operating Condition it’s best to renovate with the original materials that were used to build it at
[00:10:02] at the first in the first place and it’s one of the reasons why good contractors will often leave you a supply of tiles and countertops and plumbing supplies and so on so that as you’re going through the process of repairing over the years you’re repairing it back to perfect condition nature does that for you by keeping a little supply of stem cells in every organ and tissue of your body and those stem cells get called upon to do the repair process it’s for it’s the natural repair kit now over time you exhaust that supply and we often think of the aging process one of the Hallmarks of Aging being that you simply use up your stem cell Reservoir and it kind of makes sense right just like you would use up the tiles are left over for renovating your your bathroom you can use up the stem cells as well now it’s important to keep in mind that what makes a stem cell so valuable and useful is its ability to specialize in a
[00:11:00] versatile way meaning that it doesn’t necessarily have to be fate directed so stem cells in your liver have the ability to become hepatocytes actual liver metabolizing cells but they can also become biliary tract cells they can also become blood vessel cells they can also become cells that are that are support cells and so that they choose their fate based upon demand yes and that’s really critical we actually know now that a lot of that choice a lot of that fate Choice occurs um directed by where the cell is and so we we know that every every tissue in our body is a combination of a structure a template occupied by cells that template provides chemical signals that tells the cell where it is I often say it’s like you walk into the mall and you look at the map and it says you are here and now you know how to go find you know abian fit or whatnot the truth of the matter is
[00:12:01] the same thing happens in the body and in our tissues the different cells the different stem cells on the tissue know where they are and they specialize in an appropriate way that’s why if I give you if I inject stem cells into your bloodstream and they get to the liver but they don’t yet become liver cells they don’t eventually make a mistake and become a brain cell that’s that that specialized maturation process is very much orchestrated by the environment did you see the movie Oppenheimer if you did did you know that besides building the atomic bomb at Los Alamos National Labs that they spent billions on biod defense weapons the ability to accurately detect viruses and microbes by reading their RNA well a company called viome exclusively licensed the technology from Los Alamos labs to build a platform that can measure your microbiome and RNA in your blood now viome has a product that
[00:13:01] I’ve personally used for years called full body intelligence which collects a few drops of your blood spit and stool and can tell you so much about your health they’ve tested over 700,000 individuals and used their AI models to deliver members critical Health guidance like what foods you should eat what foods you shouldn’t eat as well as your supplements and probiotics your biological age and other deep Health insights and the results of the recommendations are nothing short of stellar you know as reported in the American Journal of Lifestyle medicine after just 6 months of following biomes recommendations members reported the following a 36% reduction in depression a 40% reduction in anxiety a 30% reduction in diabetes and a 48% reduction in IBS listen I’ve been using viome for 3 years I know that my oral and gut health is one of my highest priorities best of all viome is Affordable which is part of my mission to democratize health if you want to
[00:14:01] join me on this journey go to vi.com Peter I’ve asked naen Jane a friend of mine who’s a founder and CEO of viome to give my listeners a special discount you’ll find it at vom.com Peter so I think one thing that’s important uh to discuss here is what happens as you age to your stem cells and I would call you know stem cell exhaustion and again this is research that you’ve done um and you brought to the uh industry here is uh how many stem cells you begin with as a newborn and where do you end up at the end of life and it’s like another version of your Mansion story is imagine you built a giant mansion I’ve heard you present this and um in the beginning uh your Mansion has a whole bunch of repairman and it has uh perfect instructions and as the repairmen are keeping things going following the instructions the
[00:15:01] Mansion stays in great shape but eventually the repair men or women start to die off and the population of people being able to repair the Mansion begins to um uh degrade and eventually fall away and the instruction set begins to blur and tatter um your ability to keep the mansion in good structural Health uh disappears um and you’re getting that as well with stem cells so talk to us about the uh the change populations so um every stem cell has the I always say every stem cell retains the fully transcribable genome what that means is we know that our biological software is is in our DNA in our genetic material and that software is used to make all of the necessary chemicals and proteins and and and signaling molecules that drive the functionality of every cell in our body body and those
[00:16:00] functions differ based upon the organ or tissue liver cells have part of their genome dedicated to liver functions and in the process of becoming a liver cell part of the genetic material gets silenced so that it’s very efficient in what’s in what it does the stem cell in contrast retains all that versatility the ability to read the whole genome you you know that when we were when we first bu started to build our interest in this field we created a company called human longevity and human longevity was dedicated to reading interrogating the Genome of longlived people to better understand what might be a Hallmark of long life well if you remember um our our our former partner Craig Venter the first scientist sequence the human genome always spoke about DNA as biological software and I always spoke of stem cells as the mini computer yeah that the software resided in the nucleus and all of the all of the reading and writing of that software took place in
[00:17:00] the cell the cytoplasm of the cell and the surface of the cell acted like a keyboard and so if you think of it in that model then what a stem cell is that is so valuable to us is it’s like a perfect uncorrupted reboot disc Master boot disc that as long as you keep it in good condition anytime your software gets damaged and your software gets damaged by mutation it gets damaged by exhaustion gets damaged by chemical adulterant anytime that happens if you can reinstall the software with this master boot dis you can get back to a state of of High Health High functionality by the way anybody under 35 may not know what a boot dis is but it was what what you would what you used to get with your computer that would boot up the computer um and uh install the yeah the initialization of your of your disc drive anyway but the analogy still still holds so one of the things
[00:18:01] you mentioned to me is like between birth and death um you get something like a 100 to a thousandfold reduction in the number of stem cells in each of the tissues of your body is that is that true we know that a Hallmark of Youth is a very abundant to use a term that’s important an an abundant healthy supply of stem cells so if you look at one organ system let’s look at bone marrow okay and people know bone marrow makes makes the blood the blood cells the red blood cells are white blood cells the platelets bone marrow is filled with stem cells that do all that MH at the T early in life early after birth if you were to measure the number of stem cells in the bone marrow of a of a eight-week old about one in 20 to 30,000 cells in the bone Mar of of a newborn is a stem cell over your lifetime that number
[00:19:00] declines it declines exponentially so if you look at the bone Mar of an 80-year-old it’s one in 20 to 30 million soell thousandfold reduction thousandfold reduction now it should be obvious to everybody that the more stem cells you have the more you’re able to respond to the need for repair and renovation and as you get older if it’s harder to find it harder to find a stem cell to do that work you’re not going to repair back to the same state of function and health so think about it as you’re using up your your toolkit supplies you know you you’ve talked about this uh with the stem cells again I love the term it’s a regenerative engine of your body and um that we have the ability now to just not accept that right so people whove heard this conversation on these podcasts with me about longevity know that we are in Peak condition typically in our late 20s like 27 to 30 years old and it’s a slow decline of loss of muscle a loss of
[00:20:00] immune function a loss of hormonal balance and very significantly a loss of stem cell capacity um and you can accept that and accept your fate or you can fight against it and I think one of the things that that you have been leading the charge on and uh I remember the first conversation you and I had about and I was like oh my God this is incredibly exciting is the idea of stem cell supplementation um and the idea of being able to store um uh store your own stem cells we’ll get to that but also to utiliz uh placental stem cells right um so I want to talk about um and and use those to augment your stem cell populations and even augment your immune system uh and so not accepting what is
[00:21:00] uh and saying no I want to restore my level of of regenerative capability in my body um and that is the vision and I feel confident for what you the work that you’ve done and others have done that it is definitively possible and we we’ll get we’ll get to that why I got into this field yeah that’s why you into the field right I want to talk about how you got into this field but but before that let’s talk about the different types and origins of stem cells because there are lots of different types of stem cells and um let’s define them uh their utility uh when people say they got stem cells what do the where might they have got them from yeah so if you don’t mind walk me through that so there’s two important Concepts you just touched on one is that if we could augment or supplement our reserve of stem cells with a supply of stem cells out there that’s good that’s a good thing right we already know it’s well accepted in the in the scientific
[00:22:00] community that a Hallmark of Aging is exhausting your stem cell Supply and it makes sense right it’s intuitively logical to everybody if I if my body repairs itself by stem cells and I run out of stem cells I stop repairing myself right that that’s obvious to everybody the first concept is that if you can supplement or augment your stem cells that’s a good thing now 30 years ago I said well wait a second since I know I can get stem cells from The Leftovers of a of a healthy pregnancy and it’s easy for me to isolate those cells and put them into a state of suspended animation by cryopreserving them freezing them at ultra low temperatures if I need them later in life can I just th them out and use them and the concept there is true you can do that and that’s the whole foundation for the newborn cell banking industry which has been around for over 30 years the second concept you before we before we go there can I just mention
[00:23:01] um you you mentioned the The Leftovers of pregnancy uh so just to be clear about this um for folks to to get an image here uh when when an when an embryo is in utero um uh it is getting a supply of cells from the placenta right which you know I use the term uh and thank you for crediting me for it of it’s the placenta is a 3D printer that manufactures the baby right right and and so the placenta has like all of the stem cells in it um the original boot dis which is your term I utilize um and so you normally in the labor and delivery room pay for your uh expelled placenta to be burned in the incinerator and you pay pay a a fe
[00:24:01] there yeah but it’s crazy because it’s like one of the most powerful materials it’s like throwing away an extra set of of organs for your child that’s a it offended me it offended me to see this beautiful tissue being discarded and by the way people say Bob why is a why is a neurosurgeon you know chasing placentas you know they thought thought I lost my mind but the reality is that um uh you know I recognized that that this was a pristine tissue right it’s the age of the newborn it has structure function and cellular content that is about as good as you can it’s going to get um and most importantly these are these are as you said these are just paid to be disposed of when they’re readily available all you needed to do was come up with an industrialized process to utilize those materials and cells so so to your to your point um the the placenta is an ideal place to get
[00:25:02] leftover cells it all started when we recognized that you could find blood blood bone marrow and blood stem cells left over in the circulating blood of the umbilical cord at the time of birth and you know you clamp the cord you cut the cord baby in a little piece of cord goes one place the placenta and the umbilical cord goes into the waste basket my concept at the beginning was why let it go into The Biohazard Waste basket collect it process it and use the benefits of our what we know about cryopreserving cells to store them away forever and so that’s that yeah I just I just I want to break that down one second because there uh first of all uh one of the divisions that uh that cellularity has is life Bank USA and a lot of folks might have heard of Cord Blood banking where you actually take the cord blood um which has uh hepato heaty stem cells right hetic stem yes
[00:26:03] thank you blood stem cells and um and that has always been the biggest industry but it’s missing the point because what you really want is the stem cells that make up all of the tissues of the body and and that’s in the placenta so uh so life Bank USA is someplace where if if someone listening is having a baby like my two 13-year-old boys now 13 years ago we stored their placentas uh uh well the the cells out of the placenta with with you you have a you have a a room full of cryo cryo freezers and I’m saying Bob where are my kids store and I go over and say hello to uh to their stem cells and now 13 years later my niece Christina is having her baby today and they have a life Bank USA collection kit well they’ll collect the placental the placenta and some cord blood and that gets sh sh to you and then processed and then uh her newborn
[00:27:02] will be on I think it’s a moral uh obligation for any parent uh to to save that for their child I I couldn’t agree with you more look 30 some odd years ago and I give you I give my older daughter Alex credit for this right when I when I was a young surgeon and she was in utero um and I went down to see the first trimester ultrasound I tell you the story all the time and I looked at her little peanuts SI embryo but the placenta was already a big organ I said to myself well wait a second in medical school we were taught that the placenta was a vascular connection between the mom and the developing baby as an engineer when I looked at that it didn’t make sense to me because if because if she was just a peanut size and the placenta was already a big organ it suggested to me that the placenta played a role in making that embryo become a fetus and Beyond right it was it was participating like a 3D printer in printing the baby and you said
[00:28:01] something very important which is if you look at an embryo there just aren’t enough cells in an embryo even at the maximum rate of division to build a baby in N9 months some of the additional cells necessary to build that baby have to come from somewhere and they come from the Supply Depot and the Supply Depot is the placa yeah so I just want people to recognize that the placenta is valuable um a valuable asset to a family listen listen we’re talking to government leaders in certain jurisdictions this should almost be a a a medical imperative because if you have this supply of repair and starting material you may in fact be able to to to prevent and interrupt disease progress and and we’re in the a we’re in the era of G of of cellular engineering you can fix things if I have your stem cells from your placenta stored that’s the perfect blank canvas to to subject
[00:29:03] to all these new ways of editing the genome making you a better Superior healthy individual creating immune cells that now Target your disease fixing your immune cells that give you autoimmunity I mean all these things are possible if you have the raw material supply and you and you remember almost 20 years ago I did that little Skunk Works experiment where I collected stem cells from the placenta from newborn rats processed them and stored them and gave those rats back their stem cells as they aged and the animals live 40% longer than the untreated animals right so we you and I both know this is a potential Cornerstone of the of the Technologies that’ll allow us to live healthier longer lives everybody I want to take a short break from our episode to talk about a company that’s very important to me and could actually save your life or the life of someone that you love company is called Fountain life and it’s
[00:30:00] a company I started years ago with Tony Robbins and a group of very talented Physicians you know most of us don’t actually know what’s going on inside our body we’re all optimists until that day when you have a pain in your side you go to the physician or the emergency room and they say listen I’m sorry to tell you this but you have this stage three or four going on and you know it didn’t start that morning it probably was a problem that’s been going on for some time but because we never look we don’t find out so what we built at Fountain life was the world’s most advanced diagnostic Centers we have four across the us today and we’re building 20 around the world these centers give you a full body MRI a brain a brain vasculature an AI enabled coronary CT looking for soft plaque dexa scan a Grail blood cancer test a full executive blood workup it’s the most advanced workup you’ll ever receive 150 gigabyt of data that then go to our AIS and our
[00:31:02] physicians to find any disease at the very beginning when it’s solvable you’re going to find out eventually you might as well find out when you can take action Fountain life also has an entire side of Therapeutics we look around the world for the most Advanced Therapeutics that can add 10 20 healthy years to your life and we provide them to you at our centers so if this is of interest to you please go and check it out go to Fountain life.com Peter when Tony and I wrote Our New York Times bestseller life force we had 30,000 people reached out to us for Fountain life memberships if you go to Fountain life.com Peter will’ll put you to the top of the list really it’s something that is um for me one of the most important things I offer my entire family the CEOs of my companies my friends it’s a chance to really add deck decades onto our healthy lifespans go to
[00:32:01] fountainlife decomp it’s one of the most important things I can offer to you as one of my listeners all right let’s go back to our episode I love this okay so I want people to realize that you can get stem cells from the placenta uh some companies will give you stem cells from the umbilical cord um and then the ability cord blood right in Cord Blood but there’s a few other options for where people get stem cells can you run through those yeah so so in an effort to make stem cells available to people um Technologies like induced plur potency was created yamanaka won the Nobel Prize for figuring out how to take one of your mature specialized cells and reprogramming it so it acts like a stem cell that was because not everybody had their placenta stored at Birth or their cell stored early in life but I’m here to to tell you as phenomenal and exciting as that technology
[00:33:02] is it’s going through a lot of acrobatics to make an adult cell behave like a placental cell and even though you might turn on Pur potency you don’t change the age of that cell and there are other parts of the cell besides the parts that get reprogrammed that age mitochondria age cell membranes age Etc and so I am here to say the placenta is the ideal alternative even if you don’t have your own sales banked and that was one of our seminal breakthroughs and discoveries early on which is that lo and behold aside from the fact that the placenta is the stem cell Factory the cells in the placenta are nature’s universal donor cells and you’ve heard me talk about this pet absolutely so I often I often say Mom and Dad contribute 50% each of the DNA of their offs so the fetus and its placenta growing inside mom’s womb is
[00:34:02] only a 50/50 match to Mom yet she doesn’t reject it and it doesn’t reject her that’s pretty cool right well what about surrogate pregnancy in surrogate pregnancy mom’s not even related to the placenta or the fetus that is being developed and she doesn’t reject it so it’s proven by nature and I often say mamalian Evolution could not have occurred without the placenta becoming a perfect universal donor tissue able to tolerate the existence of a different Ser phenotype a different serotype and so that’s the Elegance of having the placenta is I can use those cells in an completely unrelated recipient so um there is those and then let’s talk about where so there’s autus and allogeneic can you explain those explain those Concepts right pus means the cells come from you Auto auto self
[00:35:02] you can get stem cells from your blood from your bone marrow from your adapost tissue there’s lots of places you can get stem cells that are your own or you can take a mature cell like a like a fiber Blast From Your Skin you can subject it to yamanaka’s methodology and you can induce Pur potency and that’s now a stem cell that has the Versa versatile ability to divide Etc so that those are two of the types you can get stem cells from parasites from the from the not parasites but parasites these are the cells that line blood vessels okay you can get stem cells from bone marrow from peripheral blood that you mobilize the stem cells from bone marrow into and you can get stem cells from virtually any tissue if you’re willing to take a scalpel to that tissue in contrast there’s no risk to collecting cells from the placenta it is it is waste material the baby’s already born
[00:36:01] and off enjoying it its life when the placenta is expelled goes into the waste basket comes to our Laboratories and gets processed and from one placenta we can produce tremendous quantities of stem cells and then allogeneic um is refers to allogeneic means the cells come from somebody else and it you in those cases you have to you have to if if they’re not derived from an allergenic placenta you have to make certain that there’s no immunologic conflict between the donor and the recipient yes now allergenic therapy is really the Hallmark of efforts to create off-the-shelf Cell Therapy products autologous Cell Therapy products like for example immunotherapy for cancer means you got to collect your own cells process them and then get them back at some point in the future so Bob there’s been a lot of controversy over the years about stem cells a lot of fear
[00:37:01] and concerns where did that originate from what what have people heard uh about that’s caused this concern um that you can assuage their fears about well you remember from Medical School embryology is the study of how we originate from a single cell into an embryo and then form a fully functioning human being um it was that original work that led to scientists looking at the leftover um uh embryos from invitro fertilization program these are the ones that are going to be discarded because they’re not used to see if they could isolate some cells and then grow them up into a population of cells that could potentially be used in therapy that means you have to destroy an embryo um and early on the controversy that that erupted was that at the stage of of of when you can isolate stem cells that embryo still has the potential to go on
[00:38:02] to become a human being does it constitute a a life that you you should not be allowed to to compromise or sacrifice that was that was the fundamental origins of the controversy then because you can get stem cells from a few stages down in development from the fetus and as a byproduct of abortion scientists showed you could isolate stem cells from The Leftovers of the the abortion process these put a very very significant part of the community um uh under great concern that there could be a very perverted incentive to create human human life in the form of an embryo or a fetus just to destroy it yeah and so the pro-life Pro pro-choice um uh uh debate was the was the foundation upon which the controversy around stem cells really
[00:39:00] emerge and I’m very happy to say that that our discovery of the placenta as a as an ideal alternative to that and by the way the placenta is pro-life and pro-choice right yes so so there is no there is no objection to using the leftovers of a full-term healthy pregnancy to derive stem cells it’s abundantly available the economics are better and if I can get a dozen cells from an embryo I’m lucky I can get a billion cells easily multi-billion cells from a placenta so the sheer the sheer logistical convenience of using the placenta all of the characteristics I’m telling you about the the immune tolerating ability of the placenta the universal donor characteristics all that make the placenta just an ideal source to obviate the need to use for embryos or fetal material yeah so I just want folks understand the original controversy um and concerns originated from the idea
[00:40:01] of using embryonic stem cells from an abortion from a fetus and um today the stem cell industry uh under Bob’s leadership and and others has matured far past that where we can now uh identify we can give you back your own stem cells we can we can extract them we can concentrate them we can manipulate them a number of ways we should talk about that again because that’s not yet FDA approved hopefully undering new Administration it will be um or we can give you placental or umbilical cord uh stem cells allogeneic from somebody else which are safe and have been done how many how many total allergenic stem cells uh treatments do you think your best guess have been done around the world oh millions millions okay so yeah so I mean I just this is not like a a wild frontier of idea someone came up with in their garage and is is trying on
[00:41:00] you exactly here’s here you new bad news travels fast okay yes if Cell ther and I make this argument all the time and and and and I sometimes pit myself against others in the field if if bad things happen from Cell Therapy if bad things happen from using stem cells in in treating different diseases the bad news would travel fast now there have been a few isolated situations where people with with ireverse ible hopeless diseases sought cell therapy from let’s let’s let’s admit it from certain unscrupulous um opportunistic providers and as a is a as a therapy of Last Resort for them because they’re trying everything that’s right and and and and and listen I have such a lot of respect for the FDA the the current head of the the uh the division of the FDA that oversees self therapy Dr Peter Marx um has an incredibly complicated difficult job and he has done an amazing amazing job in
[00:42:00] focusing attention he wants to see these therapies approved he wants to make sure they’re approved the right way and he wants to make sure that that there’s never a shortcut in producing the products I I I salute that completely and I celebrate that completely yeah I mean it’s important that people know there are a lot of mom and pop shops around around the country that will promise you stem cell treatments and um and you need to really understand the origin their experience because they’re not legally doing it let’s begin with that they’re operating in the gray zone between a fully developed regulated therapeutic that meets the high standards of safety and efficacy prescribed by the FDA they kind they try and they try and go around that um groups like hours do the hard work of taking these um candidate Therapies through the process of clinical development clinical trials where we are
[00:43:01] controlling the treatments we’re controlling the analysis we’re controlling the manufacturing because that’s the best way to ensure that no one takes a shortcut to to transforming the way a disease is treated but I’ll tell but I’ll tell you this much I do believe that there is room here I do believe there’s room here and and I’m in the dialogue there’s room to be more receptive and more open to accelerating the process of review for cell therapies and also and this is a little little pet peeve of mine taking advantage of the long safety track record of cell therapy and allowing some of the evaluation to take place on the run in other words have Prov some form of a provisional approval process where cell therapies that meet a high standard for safety okay yeah are allowed to be tried particularly in some of these hopeless diseases let’s let’s talk about ALS right Lou Garrick’s disease nothing
[00:44:01] works there you’re going to die if you have ALS I don’t see a downside to using a number of cell therapy products that meet that safety standard and then collecting rigorously collecting the data it’ll actually do do us a big favor to open up the number of programs where we’re where we’re very rigorous about collecting data in order to make better decisions about what’s what is acceptable or not acceptable to be moved into the therapeutic armamentarium of doctors let’s talk about the social proof here there have been a number of success stories right um again I mentioned the opening of The Life Force book where you know Tony calls me up and he goes man I’ve just had the worst uh snowboarding accident and I have just massively injured my shoulder uh what should I do and I say Tony um you need to talk to Bob herui he says okay say Bob is you know for me my world’s expert
[00:45:01] in stem cells and uh I think you know these types of injuries could benefit and he called you and at that time uh he you know we were both recommending utilizing the Panama Stell Institute I think now we’ve seen the emergence of uh down in Costa Rica uh RMI the regenerative medic medicine Institute um under Vince gapa and most everybody that we recommend uh who needs this level of allergenic stem cells goes down there until we have them operational here in the US perhaps at Fountain um but uh take the story from there and I’d like to hear some other success stories that you could share so Tony is a example and by the way you and I fall into the same category we’re at that age where we break stuff you know we tear stuff and um our body makes a great attempt to mobilize our own stem
[00:46:00] cell populations and get them to the injury to participate to participate in the repair but sometimes it’s too little too late and so in Tony’s case and and and let’s face it Tony’s like a professional athlete times 10 right aside from being 68 and 260 270 PBS you know in a physical specimen he taxes his body to the absolute limits right I mean you and I you and I are blown away when we’re with him at his house and he’s got he’s got basically a professional gymnasium where he works on like like like a maniac when he tore up his shoulders tore up his hips and his and hurt his back um he either he either had to go for prosthetic replacement type surgery or or he had to attempt to turn up the regenerative P power of his body and the only way to do it because his own cells were either too limited too little or too late was to augment with newborn cells and we all know as as is
[00:47:00] covered in the book he had a life-changing response I’m I too I have had I have had 30 some OD Orthopedic procedures in my life my shoulders have been torn up I have no rotator cuffs the only thing that keeps me active is I have range of motion and I can do so is I’ve have used cell therapy and the byproducts of cells to stimulate the repair process and Tamp down the inflammation that causes the function decline yeah I’ll give a quick side there for myself I had I ran an experiment not on purpose but in retrospect where I had uh the same surgeon do the exact same surgery on my two shoulders um about 10 years apart and it was a I had a bone spur and rotator cuff injury and pain I couldn’t sleep and uh on one side my left side originally um that had no regenerative uh medicine impact on the right side after the surgery uh I had two
[00:48:02] injections of exosomes um and I was 10 years older and my recovery time was a fraction and my pain was a fraction of what it was my other shoulder now listen this is subjective but it was like wow that was different yeah yeah listen me too I mean when I tore my uh my shoulder up and um and I couldn’t sleep the pain was unbearable I couldn’t move it I I couldn’t load the uh the the bicep um when I went and got first placental cells injected into one shoulder and within a matter of days had considerable reduction in pain and Improvement in function and then when I tore the other one up I used exosomes just like you did and got very noticeable quantifiable relief and most importantly it it it’s turned off the processes that
[00:49:00] would lead to long-term dysfunction like scarring yes scarring like like changes to Bone and cartilage and all that so look we’re we’re we’re we’re proof in proof in practice that this stuff actually does work and and by the way people wouldn’t be seeking these therapies if they if there wasn’t enough evidence from other people as well as growing evidence in individuals themselves that this stuff actually is an alternative to other forms of therapy you know Bob two things one first off can you explain what an exosome is yep and secondly um why haven’t the clinical trials been done yet that allow the FDA to say yay verily this is safe and efficacious well first of all let me say this there have been a lot of clinical trials that I don’t necessar thly agree with how the data has been analyzed and
[00:50:00] interpreted um the I believe the bar for um for proving efficacy in cell therapies has been unusually high um uh the best example are in the is in the treatment of of of heart failure after myocardial infarction where you know again once you damage your heart it’s damage and you don’t you don’t you can’t turn it you can’t fix that unless there’s a regener event that’s taking place so I think the bar has been very very high I think we’re using we’re using 20th century methodology to evaluate clinical trials in cell therapy that’s a 21st century technology and so the metrics have to be re-evaluated and I think the time course of looking for changes has to be lengthened and by the way you know what the rate limiter for clinical trials is it’s and exactly it’s the time and cost of the trial and so if
[00:51:01] you need to have a lens that’s looking at the results of cell therapy that’s 6 months a year two years down the road and is also 6 months a year two years and over multiple treatments down the road it becomes cost prohibitive for the companies who are in this field to do those studies listen there are no big companies doing stem cell clinical development work they’re all developmental stage biotechs developmental stage biotechs can do only as much as the capital they raise to do those studies so the the the the the O the odds are against uh you know getting to the point that you’re going to meet those very high regulatory standards but I do believe I do believe in partnership with The Regulators we have to say look let’s let’s agree that an no no doubt Quality quality products that are assured to be made under the Quality Systems of GMP and go through the right
[00:52:02] kind of release specification testing and so on with the right kind of evidence of safety acute and and and even long-term safety should be allowed to be introduced into the treatment regimens Because by the way here’s the other thing it there’s there’s probably a very high likelihood that cell therapy in combination with some other elements of convention itional therapy is where you get the real return on investment okay the real benefits patients need we’re not doing that because the regulatory system isn’t designed to look at things that way yeah um but but I I personally think we’re at a point we’re at a stage right now where Regulators can be more permissive allow for realworld evaluation of the long-term benefits of of cell therapy in products that meet a high quality standard and that have the fundamental Assurance of safety acute
[00:53:01] safety that is necessary to get into the clinic if we did that we could build the database and by the way we live in the world of AI and machine learning what does Ai and machine learning need it needs big data sets yep not 10 patients not a 100 patients but 10,000 patients with so Bobby Kennedy’s confirmed is he Pro stem cells and pro regenerative medicine so you know I know that there’s a great of concern you know Bobby Kennedy is a very outspoken proponent of looking at Therapeutics differently than conent than the conventional views views out there um but he is very much a proponent of the us having having to advance and innovate in Therapeutics among which cell therapy is one of the categories and I do believe that he will find the way to work with Partners in the FDA uh and NIH and so on that will be willing be willing to be far more um
[00:54:06] uh inclusive and receptive to to development models where you have a longer lens on the on the patient’s results that you are looking at a a range of different outcome variables and that you’re testing in the context of finding ways for these these Therapeutics to fit the conventional treatment regimen and that may include using with drugs and other components and so on and so forth real quick I’ve been getting the most unusual compliments lately on my skin truth is I use a lotion every morning and every night religiously called one skin it was developed by four PhD women who determined a 10 amino acid sequence that is a cytic that kills scile cells in your skin and this literally reverses the age of your skin and I think it’s one of the most incredible products I use it all the time uh if you’re
[00:55:01] interested check out the show notes I’ve asked my team to link to it below all right let’s get back to the episode all right exosomes give us a one-onone on exosomes real quick people have heard about them they’ve heard about them treating for your skin for your hair for all kinds of things so an exosome think of an exosome as a packet of materials that include signaling molecules growth factor s micrornas all the all the ways that cells communicate with each other chemically gets packaged in what’s called an extracellular vesicle it’s it’s a membrane Wrapped Little delivery package and and that that contains important molecules that can be anti-inflammatory pro- regenerative and even help stimulate the expression of certain Mo certain genes in an individual’s genome and the way they work is that they are released by cells they can be processed and collected in a
[00:56:01] manufacturing system and then when administer to an individual because they’re a membrane bound they they fuse with the membrane of a person’s cells and deliver that information into the cell it is like a it’s like a special delivery package of a anti-inflammatory growth factor or a pro pro regenerative uh peptide that’s what you the way to think about it okay so I want to continue you know Tony’s a great example you and I have both benefited here what are some of the other stories that you’ve uh been involved in or seen in this in this stem cell success story just for folks to have some sense of the broadness here well people would be surprised to know that many of our um most celebrated uh uh theater and and movie celebrities who are aging but are
[00:57:00] still facing the demand the the demands of very active physical life and so on and so forth have sought out cell therapy in one form or another some go to clinics in Europe leie for example has been a clinic that has been delivering Cell Therapy it is not human cell therapy it’s a it’s a uh it’s Cell Therapy derived from other species but they know that the benefits for anti-aging for preservation performance for aesthetic benefits are there so people have sort it out I have taken you know a number of well-known people uh to uh to different clinical environments in in Central or South America um uh even in Mexico Bahamas uh and and these these folks have have seen very tangible improvements in a particular need they have and the most common I’ll tell you right now the most common thing people go to is for joint problems right yeah arthritis um and and we’re very very
[00:58:02] active in advancing these these approaches to treat something that plagues us all as we age which is the loss of muscle mass so sarop I think let’s talk about that because you’ve you pointed out to me uh the kolinska studies that muscle mass and Longevity are highly correlated you know I worked diligently on putting on 10 pounds of muscle mass last year really through your inspiration and encouragement so please talk to me about that so people don’t recognize how important skeletal muscle is it’s kind of like a forgotten organ people don’t think of it as an organ right but muscle makes up 50% of the wet body mass of the average individual and that means it’s the largest synthetic organ in the body the cells in your muscle make up a whole array of chemicals called the myome and those chemicals influence every cell and tissue in your body including your brain and so that’s why exercise and getting those muscles working actually is good
[00:59:01] for your brain health for your immune Health Etc now in addition in addition muscle is the largest Venus capacitance organ which means it’s got the largest network of small blood vessels low flow blood vessels low pressure blood vessels and that’s where a lot of our stem and immune cells take up residence they sequester there laying in weight to be to be to be called upon to traffic and do their job now I for you you probably remember 20 years ago I said that muscle is the is the Forgotten Frontier for the Therapeutics and pharmaceutical industry and if you remember I got very active at finding ways to modulate myostatin A protein that is designed to to control how much lean muscle mass you make and I I saw that as an opportunity to enhance muscle quality and growth with this blockade of this of this negative peptide and we actually were able to do
[01:00:01] that with nutritional products and there’s even a number of pharmaceutical approaches as well it turns out that this is incredibly important because of the study you just quoted The kolinska Institute which is the Mayo Clinic of Europe okay The kolinska Institute followed 9,000 men for 25 years and what they found what they found was that men who maintain healthy lean muscle mass and strength even if their body mass index was considered to be obese had a higher resistance to dying from cancer or heart disease than any than any other indicator so muscle mass is a better predictor of longevity and health than body mass index weight any of those metabolic uh markers yeah I I and I I love that the um you know for me I I
[01:01:00] keep on saying any company that will increase muscle mass is a company I want to look at in investing in you know uh Bob you and I uh are co-founders along with Tony Robbins and Bob and and Bill cap of Fountain life and uh Fountain life uh you know has done an amazing job in the diagnostic side right we upload about 200 gabt of data through full body and brain MRI uh dexa scan coronary CT with an AI overlay low dose lung CT all the blood biomarkers your full genomics metabolomics microbiome a lot and that’s been great and the goal is can we answer two questions is there anything going on inside you right now you need to know about and what’s likely to happen to you that we can prevent by optimizing you but that’s half of the objective all
[01:02:00] right it’s it’s finding disease at the earliest stage when it’s most treatable you and I have always had the vision we had this back in hi but it didn’t materialize there so it’s materializing in fountain that the Diagnostics are important but the Therapeutics are as important uh so how do we deliver our Fountain life members the highest reward lowest risk Therapeutics um and really search the world for those and then deliver them at the centers so I want to talk a littleit about that I want to get your your thoughts because I think we’re just at the brink of a lot of these very exciting longevity Therapeutics I mean that’s the goal is to restore function and and you’ve taught me it’s you know are you thinking clearly are you looking good are you moving well right that’s that’s what people want through their through their 99th birthday um and uh uh so you know
[01:03:01] the question is you know are we going to be able to you know deliver some of these therapeutic stem cells exosomes and other things uh through Fountain life what’s your what’s your vision there well listen you and I have talked for a long time about what’s what’s meaningful the concept of anti-aging and Longevity has been a bit perverted over the years right it would seem seem to be kind of the um the Folly of the wealthy and you know not necessarily you know there weren’t um in some cases um morally justifiable reasons for wanting to live to 150 and so on and so forth when I was a kid there was a TV show called The Immortal and I used to love that show you might remember it guy had blood he had blood to live forever and so he was hunted by the billionaires who wanted to you know take his blood Etc so look here here’s the bottom line um sure meaning ful long life requires preservation of performance and I always
[01:04:00] say it’s about high performance Mobility like you said high performance cognition you got to think high performance immunity and Youthful Aesthetics those four things in my mind constitute meaningful long life those are all achievable using many different approaches nutrition exercise Etc maintaining muscle mass but it is the perfect Target for the regenerative therapies available through cellular medicine and when you and I first built human longevity and we went and then we decided that we were going to now perfect it in Fountain life our objective was to do two things we wanted to use a proactive approach in healthcare like you said identify and eradicate causes of premature death that’s the obvious loow hanging food you know and I know life expectancy is an average lifespan
[01:05:00] of everybody which means that if it’s 80 if it’s 78 or 80 years of age and we know people live to 95 100 Etc a lot of people are dying early so y step number one eradicate causes of pre premature death what are the causes of premature death that get away from us um they’re cardiovascular they’re cancer okay the cardiovascular ones are the explosive things like aneurysmal ruptures right like cardiovascular failure due to electrical issues um that cause sudden cardiac death uh uh undiagnosed cancers that before you know it and when you first find out you have them they’re so Advanced they can’t be managed so anything that can identify stuff early enough to be intervened with that’s a principal Target of fountain in life and we’ve already proven it works right we know it works we’ve saved hundreds and hundreds of lives hundreds of lives and and and we’re saving lives in in the First Community who are making access to this which are the informed educated
[01:06:03] affluent people who are already getting the best health care look how many people do you and I both know people we know who have religiously pursued Health Care with the best physicians and they have a clean bill of health they come into Fountain life and we identify a I mean Samarian who’s made this public who’s one of our new partners building out centers around the world um I I you know said listen Sam come down and see the fountain light facility I was taking them through uh to meet Richard Branson at neker island and we stopped through and he went through an upload uh he and his wife and this is a guy who has has built the greatest hotels in the world he is you know I don’t know how close he is or how much of a billionaire or multi-billionaire he is but best physician and he comes through and at the end of this upload we find two brain
[01:07:02] aneurysms and he’s in surgery a week later and he’s cured now but those were ticking time bombs and it’s like really it’s like your other doctors didn’t find these that have been around for so long that’s insane yeah yeah I mean look the truth of the matter is we now have at our disposal high resolution imaging technology which the cost has come down with with the Advent of AI and so on and so forth the ability to interpret is going to improve and aneurysms are relatively easy to spot as long as you have the Imaging study yeah and so if for for a relatively modest amount of money you can you can ensure yourself that you don’t have one of these ticking time bombs it’s worth it right likewise if if if the same Imaging study can tell you whether or not you have a a smoldering malignancy in your thyroid or in your or in your kidney you know pancreas your brain how many how many of
[01:08:01] our friends were in perfect health living the dream and we they found out that they had a a a subclinical kidney cancer which which fortunately is easily addressed when you catch Things Early by the way this is not new the American Cancer Society said 30 40 years ago early detection is the key to survival in cancer right so the faster you find something the more options you have to treat it and excisional procedures for cancer we know are life life saving and so just what Fountain life does in identifying and eradicating these premature causes of death is is enormous but more importantly more importantly and this is our Aviation background is coming out what have I said to you for 25 since we’ve known each other I said the reason we fly airplanes that can be 20 years old uh is because we go through a process that that was developed by engineers and that’s why I like like you know having that engineering background where because of root cause analysis we
[01:09:02] figure out what is the source of a mission critical failure and if it’s an mechanical component you inspect and replace at 50% life lifespan so that you never have a mission critical failure and you learn over time what those are we already know what the mission critical failures are in in in biology we can we can we can use the same proactive approach and we can I believe prevent the in tremendous cost of care look we identify a kidney cancer and somebody pre-clinically and treat them you have saved you have saved potentially millions of dollars in care that they yeah right you the misery it needs to be said as well um you know we have a couple of friends in Dean Cayman and Martin rothblat um who are doing something extraordinary magical and you’ve spoken about this and you did a lot of the early work as well which is
[01:10:02] regrowing organs or remanufacturing organs right going from a stem cell um or even going from a skin cell to a plur potent stem cell with the yanaka factors growing up billions of those cells differentiating them uh into heart liver lung kidney and and remanufacturing a brand new organ with your own DNA and your own C surface ANM it’s like it’s the reason that airplanes and and Ford Model T’s 100 years ago are still operating today is you can replace the parts I I often tell families who are thinking about banking their kids stem cells at Birth I said look if your baby was born with an extra set of kidneys extra set of lungs and an extra heart would you throw them out at Birth and that’s what you actually have when you have a supply of stem cells that can be used in these purposes and by the way Peter you know I was the first guy to actually take an organ yeah tell this story by I love it so over 20 years ago um I was the first guy to take a solid
[01:11:01] organ and remove all the living cells from the or what organ did you choose uh we originally started with the placenta we did with we did it with hearts as well yeah basically wash out all of the cells the living cells in that organ leave behind a beautiful three-dimensional architecture template of the organ and then inject can I can I can I can I one second just to give people a visual here if you have a heart and you use a detergent right this is a detergent it actually will desize the heart words the cells are falling away right but what’s left is and it’s hard to imagine this but there is a uh a a a massive structure oh it’s collagen structure right it’s a combination of different structural proteins but it is basically the architecture of the organ so it looks like a ghost organ there
[01:12:00] that is translucent they’re beautiful they look like they look like a like a glass cast of the of the actual organ and it has all the blood vessels structures in place it has all the mechanical structures the valves and so on and so forth but you know when I first did this with a placenta I basically washed out all of the cells of the placenta and then I could repopulate the organ any any way I wanted to based on the stem cells i i i implanted into it so my original invention my original patent which was entitled The renovation and repopulation of cavic organs and tissue matrices with stem cells was the road map for what’s being done now by Martine and Dean where they’re basically using that that approach to create a repopulate template and then using cells that are either fate driven cells from ipscs or or their donor cells and here’s the really cool thing if you inject plur
[01:13:01] poent versatile stem cells into a perfectly preserved Matrix of a tissue they actually know where they are and they differentiate appropriately GPS locations BPS yeah amazing uh buddy I want to wrap with a just a a quick conversation about uh cellularity um people who look up your bio and and you are one of the most brilliant scientist entrepreneur Engineers that I know and I I love you as an older brother um I’m always I’m always thankful that the fact that you’re a couple years older than me so that you know you’re the one that’s going to be pushing harder than I am on the regenerative medicine side um but uh uh so you used to run uh the cellular medicine division at cell Gene uh which was how big was Cene 100 billion 100 and something billion yeah we we grew to$ 1220 billion do market cap at our Peak and um Selene was a remarkable place the the best people I I got to tell I I was
[01:14:00] blessed to to be part of that organization the best leadership science-driven and and and courageous um and uh you know uh it was a great environment to to to be um risk-taking risk tolerant and Innovative yeah well so at one point I remember our conversations uh and we said listen it’s it’s great environment but you would Thrive better if we could spin out the cellular medicine Division and that became cellularity and folks it’s uh can look it up it’s now a public company celu um and you built an extraordinary manufacturing facility that you’re in the midst of right now in New Jersey um but it’s it’s worth taking a moment to say when you harvest a placenta and I do want to put in the show notes Here folks can go to lifebank
[01:15:00] usa.com uh because again I’m just shouting this from the uh from the mountaintops as I was as we’re recording this this podcast I got a text from uh my my sister and my mom that uh Christina has delivered so her daughter congratulations you know welcome to planet Earth uh I’m gonna let I’m gonna let the lab know that the placenta will be here shortly yes and so and her the the placenta her placenta and her child’s placenta will be there and you’ll um what do you do with the placenta once you get it and what are the products that you create take a second to speak about that so the placenta is procured under very rigorous controls transported under uh controlled Logistics and then in our Laboratories um it is processed to separate the cellular side of the organ from the tissue side of the organ and from the tissue side of the organ we make a whole range of surgical appliances these are these are um products that are used in wound healing
[01:16:00] Orthopedics Opthalmology and they are basically using the natural architecture of the placental tissue itself to come up with with replacements for skin uh ligament tendon cartilage Etc uh and they are um increasingly popular as the basis for treating diabetic foot ulcers venostasis Burns Etc the cells go on to be used to produce immune cells um plur poent stem cells and a whole range of other products and people can go to our website cellularity dcom c l a r ity.com and see all these programs and and products but the bottom line is is that we’re a leading company in cellular and regenerative medicine uh and uh we we are we are perfectly poised to deploy all these Therapies in the future of longevity Therapeutics amazing amazing
[01:17:00] Bob I am grateful for you in my life thank you for the work that you’re doing um and you’ve been an incredible uh scientist uh CEO engineer and and brother for me uh I hope folks will check out uh what cellularity is doing what Fountain life is doing and uh you know start to understand the power that stems cells have uh and uh that it is part of our regenerative toolkit it is part of our future um and it’s you know we hear about uh the idea of adding Decades of Health to our life this is Health span extension right and we hear of epigenetic reprogramming uh but the other big area is cellular medicine stem cells we even talked about really supplementing your immune system with NK cells and t- cells and so forth we leave that to another episode but uh love you brother and thank you uh always for our time
[01:18:00] together Peter I love you thanks so much for having me and You’re the Inspiration that has gotten us here so keep it up man thank you pal see you soon see you [Music]