how much sleep do we need and why is it important there’s really a sweet spot when it comes to sleep duration we know that if you don’t get enough sleep that your incidents of a car crash would will will increase 33% increase for sleep deprived folks and that actually gets dramatically worse the more sleep deprived you are how do you feel when you wake up and if you wake up and you tell me you don’t feel refreshed and restored by your sleep odds are the quality was very high if you don’t sleep well you’re 20% more likely to suffer a heart attack the question is can you get yourself a good night’s sleep without any supplements without any medication it’s concerning because we just don’t know the long-term implications of this breathing um and Counting are are super underestimated in the toolkit because both of those things put your body you know your physiology into a restful State sleep is sort of like this Universal superpower that if you can harness and you can access it benefits almost every dimension of your life
[00:01:01] hi everybody Peter dandis here this episode is brought to you by xprize I want to tell you we’re about to launch the most extraordinary prize ever in human history this is the largest cash prize ever offered and it’s for one of the most audacious goals ever I’m not going to tell you what it is but if you’re interested in being at our launch event it’s occurring on November 29th we’re going to have top scientists entrepreneurs from around the world joining us give us your email we’ll send you an invitation you not want to miss this xprize it is awesome I haven’t been this excited about an xprize since 2004 when Bert Rutan built spaceship 1 and flew it 100 km into space 8 billion people impacted by the largest cash prize ever check it out join us November 29th give us your email and we’ll send you the details everybody Welcome to moonshots and mindsets this session is one of my favorites it’s a conversation about something I care deeply about and
[00:02:00] I talk a lot about and it’s about sleep and I have two incredible people with me uh a CEO and a scientist uh that surround Aura and are all about helping you today uh get a Evergreen toolkit on how to have a great night’s sleep so Tom a pleasure Rebecca a pleasure to have you both so uh Tom where are you on the planet today I’m in San Francisco California sunny and bright nice and and Dr Rebecca Robins uh yourself I’m uh calling in from Boston also Sunny thank goodness so first of all I love my AA ring um and I got my best night sleep ever last night I scored a 97 on my aura ring which I’ve never had before not even close so it was something about prepping for the session so we’ll talk about that in the last segment here um but before we jump into that my goal here is in the course of this hour to give those individuals who suffer
[00:03:00] from um too little sleep or inadequate or or sleep that doesn’t revive and refresh a how to uh on the basics of sleep uh so that they can get that superpower as well so let’s jump into part one here for me which is the basics and uh also the medications around sleep so first of all the basics how much sleep do we need and why is it important let’s get down to that cuz there’s big debate about can I get away with 5 hours 6 hours hours do I need eight hours and why the heck is sleep so important to Health and Longevity Rebecca do you want to kick that off so um great question Peter uh You’ hit on one of the tenants of sleep Health which is duration I um we kind of often lament that it’s kind of the front runner right we’re all so focused on how much sleep we’re getting and sleep duration is part of the equation for the vast majority of adults 99% of us do best get have the best health um kind of through and through
[00:04:01] from mood to chronic disease profiles in the range of 7 to n hours so below that we see risks and interestingly we also see risks when sleepers are individuals are consistently getting longer than the 9 hours so that there’s really a sweet spot when it comes to sleep duration um so unfortunately the vast majority of us are not meeting that sleep need we um do have some some good data to show that only about 35% get efficient sleep so meet their number each and every night now in addition to sleep duration there are also kind of other elements of sleep that are really important to consider and one of them is how do you feel when you wake up and if you wake up and you tell me you don’t feel refreshed and restored by your sleep odds are the quality wasn’t very high and so that could be stemming from a number of different issues maybe you had too much caffeine the day before maybe you had too much stress that you weren’t managing over the course of the day maybe you drank too much before bedtime or had a you know two an extra glass of
[00:05:01] of wine and and we’ll get into that in a little bit but um there are a lot of things that go into that quality equation that and that allow us to wake up and be refreshed and restored so there are a couple aspects that go into that question of what is sleep and the the next question of why is it so important we have so much data to show that sleep is truly the Cornerstone of our truly health and performance when we’re not getting enough good quality restorative sleep we all can attest we wake up and we feel groggy we’re kind of burdened by what we call kind of brain fog we’re less productive we’re less likely to seek Creative Solutions to complex problems um in business context we have good quality data that we underperform but we also make fewer ethical decisions we’re more risk prone as opposed to risk averse and um kind of keeping the longterm in mind when you’re well rested so there are a host of of bare of um kind of adverse things that happen when we’re not meeting that Target need from kind of cogni cognitive
[00:06:00] to uh physical health starts to DET even your immunity goes down right you’re more likely to get sick if you don’t sleep well you know I like to think about it is um if evolution could have done away with one or two hours of sleep you know where you’re not uh foraging you’re not protecting yourself it would have and and we need those 7 to n Tom anything you want to add there you know I would just call out that fatigue is the flip side of sleep right and fatigue you know we know that if you don’t get enough sleep your incidents of a car crash would will will increase 33% increase for sleep deprived folks and that actually gets dramatically worse the more sleep deprived you are it’s almost worse than drinking uh you know many many accidents are thought of as as drunk driving but they’re actually people who are sleep deprived we know that it’s 70% more likely to sustain a workplace accident if you’re not well slept that’s that’s the cost side then you think about the opportunity people who have you know better sleep have better health and I think that’s maybe the the key here is when you think about
[00:07:00] heart health for example you know if you don’t sleep well you’re 20% more likely to suffer a heart attack conversely American Health Association believes that sleep is one of the foundations of long-term heart health you mentioned immunity 30 30% more likely to catch a cold so sleep is sort of like this Universal superpower that if you can harness and you can access it benefits almost every dimension of your life yeah I think of it as a tenant of longevity which we speak a lot about on this on this podcast so 7 to 9 hours sleep it’s important for your health every aspect of it so now the question becomes how do you get it and we’re going to spend the rest of the show having that conversation unfortunately a lot of people turn to drugs to ambian uh to Lunesta to other supplements some supplements are are useful and and um and additive I was having dinner with with Elon Musk last Sunday and he said he finally kicked Ambien he said it was hell on the third day um and you know can you talk a little bit about uh drugs like ambian and Lunesta
[00:08:00] uh and uh just the the addiction and the the detriment of that I want people to realize it’s not a Panacea totally what an audre to a conversation last night over dinner with Elon Musk Peter I love it um so great great point and great question um essentially that’s a classification of sleep aids the pharmacological AIDs that in some cases can literally be a godsend so there’s definitely a time and a place uh individual suffering from grief could be a good example or prolonged stress or um other issues and so of course it’s an issue to to kind of speak to your doctor about if you’re in the kind of um in the zone that would require that time of type of intervention but generally speaking they we want to look at those as a kind of a Band-Aid so they’re getting you through a period of time that is extremely difficult to get through and then when you’re on the other side of that then we can start to taper and then start to think of Behavioral strategies but what’s so interesting if we take individuals that are TR truly suffering from chronic
[00:09:01] insomnia and we take them we do randomized controlled trials where we put one group on the pharmacological intervention ambian Lunesta the like the other group gets intensive behavioral therapy called cognitive behavioral therapy for insomnia what’s so interesting in the clinical trials that have looked at these two components both do very well almost equally as well in the short term but in the long term Behavior wins and has improved efficacy over the farm ological intervention so it’s really this remarkable area of medicine where like so many areas of Medicine of course are impacted by Behavior but sleep so much so and they’re dictates that we could all really learn from the tenants of cbti that we can get into so um the other thing that we’re starting to kind of notice is just the incredible surge in melatonin uh some um data was published in Gemma not too long ago on this explosion in use and I think that even the reports that we have of you know nationally represented surveys as we think are underestimating um really how
[00:10:02] pervasive this um use of melatonin is and it’s concerning because we just don’t know the long-term implications of this um this supplement and it really is a it’s a neutral and so it’s widely unregulated um this market and so we’re really not sure the purity of the Melatonin that is on the market but then again the long-term implications are really in question so we need a lot more science before um we really promote AIDS like that yeah people talk about 1 milligram 2 Mill 5 Mig long duration or you know slow release and and I guess if I were thinking about it I’d rather be using melatonin than ambian but at the end of the day the question is can you get yourself a good night sleep without any supplements without any medications and I think that’s where I want to spend the majority of this conversation Tom you want to add anything before before we jump into that I think it’s really important to understand that melatonin is what your body produces to sort of get you off to sleep melatonin doesn’t
[00:11:00] keep you asleep melatonin doesn’t you know make you calm down or or have any of the agency of a Lunesta or an ambient melatonin is just like the starting gun for sleep and so taking melatonin you know right before bed I think in many ways is the trigger for people to kind of signal to their body that this is time to to go to bed but there’s lots of other levers that you can pull you don’t necessarily have to have an intervention I’m a big believer in melatonin um and and I agree with the the comment about neutral being unregulated but a high quality uh you know melatonin actually I think it can make a difference for folks who want to kind of get into a regular routine of getting sleepy right before falling asleep and one just one important thing to add is melatonin of course isn’t a sleep aid it really the most you know kind of primary use case is when individuals are trying to change a sleep schedule so if you’re you know really out of out of sync your internal clock with the clock you know on the wall or a new schedule that you’d like to start perfect use case for melatonin because as Tom mentioned the Melatonin that’s endogenous inside the body is what allows us us when the sun
[00:12:00] sets when we go into a cool dark environment to calm down and start to kind of prepare for sleep and then the floodgates of melatonin stop as soon as we wake up and we get sunlight exposure in the morning and so um I think it is being marketed is this Panacea this you know sleep a this miracle drug but it really isn’t so um well I think there’s a lot more education we can do on um how to use it how much when um and all that with efficacy sure and we’ll talk about sleep hygiene which is you know sort of the how do you get yourself ready how do you get yourself into the proper it’s not just close your eyes and go to sleep before we do while we’re still talking about um chemicals Pharmaceuticals let’s talk about caffeine and alcohol first so uh talk to me about you know your advice for everybody’s favorite caffeine and alcohol I actually have gone off caffeine uh for now two months since the start of the year and it’s been amazing um I miss it a little I miss I miss the
[00:13:02] the routine of it but uh where people who are drinking caffeine who are drinking you know two cups three cups four cups a day what’s your advice for them if they’re not getting a great night sleep and that last bit is the key right because if it’s not broken don’t fix it I think sometimes we have a tendency to kind of over medicalize everything and over you know prescribe and um you know introduce health tips when they’re you know it’s again not broken don’t worry but essentially the the key thing is as you’re falling asleep is your mind racing that’s you know one sign that you’re just having too much caffeine um and one thing to cut out if you are struggling with falling asleep and if you have too much caffeine though your Sleep Quality can take a hit so just be mindful and this is where just keeping a little diary about what you do over the course of the day can be really helpful and Powerful from the standpoint of behavior change just being mindful was it three or four cups that I had and maybe thinking about pulling down to two or you know maybe
[00:14:01] three at the outset but caffeine is the most widely consumed drug in the world and it does have a halflife and so it stays in your system from anywhere between five to 9 hours and there are genetic differences in how we metabolize caffeine so some people are lucky and able to metabolize it quickly and able to go you know to go to sleep shortly thereafter um but keep in mind how much and importantly when you’re drinking so many people will say oh you know I have a ventti from Starbucks in the morning at 7:00 a.m. and I chug it and then I have one last coffee after lunch and then I’m doing the you know the math and that’s a lot of caffeine so um be mindful of of how much and you can and you can find out if you’re a slow or fast metabolizer from your genetics uh whether your liver is processing it rapidly or not but I think you know when you had your last cup of coffee is really the single most important um uh metric here Tom you want to add anything there absolutely I mean look I think from personal experience I spent most of my career waking up to you know a couple
[00:15:00] of jolts of coffee and then maybe having a drink at night to to put myself to bed and and having changed that behavior completely it’s been transformative for me it’s like it’s like coming out of a black and white movie into the Technicolor world uh by by stopping caffeine um I’ve learned that my body wakes up and does fine in the morning I don’t need the jolt of caffeine now that that to be clear I do use it on occasion because it does Focus the mind and give you you know kind of a burst of like focused energy but I and keep it before noon and I try and limit the consumption and maybe we’ll get to alcohol in a second but like the other thing is that alcohol which I think many people view as sort of the the antidote you know what you would take after you were you know your mind’s racing you’re heading off to bed you take a a glass of wine to kind of take the edge off thing is is that that is a poison for your body and it ruins the quality of your sleep yeah so let’s jump into that because that is amazing you know people historically I think this is sort of social norms and you know what we see in the movies that you know I’m going to have a that night
[00:16:01] cap that glass of of wine or Scotch whatever to help me get to sleep and it does it if you have an aura ring which I do I can tell you know it decimates my deep sleep um you know what’s the what’s the science here because you think of it as a sedative um but it does just the opposite for you totally my college students I feel like push back on this you’re like you’re wrong Dr Robbins alcohol is great I’ll go right to sleep and it will put you to sleep because it has some sedative properties so it can maybe help you fall asleep but as you you mentioned from your experience you’re exactly right beer it starts to destroy the quality of our sleep it virtually starts to pull us out of the deeper stages as our body tries to enter them so you might notice on your oral ring you have more Awakenings you have more fragmented sleep lower kind of Readiness scores and that’s all um and there’s kind of a stepwise function um with alcohol’s implications for our
[00:17:01] sleep so the one dose one glass wine beer um could maybe give you about a 10% hit on your overall Sleep Quality according to the literature but then a second glass gives you about a 25 or 28% hit and then kind of so on and so forth from there and your body mass does factor in a little bit here but the most powerful thing when you this is one of the best um reasons to have a Tracker is it kind of can help you do this n of one experiment where if you’re willing to try if you find that your sleep is suffering and you’re desperate for your coffee in the morning you’re desperate for a glass of wine at night just consider yourself of at this little nend of one experiment what if I go off for two days and see how I feel just cold turkey no coffee no no alcohol and just notice how you feel during the day and then if you have a Tracker the data that you’re getting from that device and that behavior change is the most powerful because then you can really see how these things really um have big implications for our sleep yeah absolutely it’s like I do that for
[00:18:00] myself I mean I look at I the first thing I do when I wake up in the morning is I look at my AA ring data and I’m looking at you know how much deep did I get how much REM did I get how what my my duration was what my sleep score is so funny I was with a group of EX prise individuals uh in Panama last week for an adventure trip Tom you like this and I turned to uh uh to one of the individuals uh on the trip and I said so how’d you sleep last night he goes 93 so that’s it was like you know it was like it was perfect it said so much like to have a single number that was able to like convey so much the key right right if you if you actually have some data as opposed to just how you feel I mean you probably know when you feel terrible you had a hangover you drank too much you stayed up too late you know that you feel it but you know what we’re talking about is optimizing on the margin and really if you know that you can actually optimize your sleep by changing your behavior you need something to reinforce that and data is the key I I my personal experience was you know when I started seeing seeing my sleep scores change you know when I made
[00:19:00] some very sort of basic sleep hygiene changes I was really amazed at the degree to which I didn’t realize you know what I was losing by not sleeping well everybody I want to take a short break from our episode to talk about a company that’s very important to me and could actually save your life or the life of someone that you love company is called Fountain life and it’s a company I started years ago with Tony Robbins and a group of very talented Physicians you know most of us don’t actually know what’s going on inside our body we’re all optimists until that day when you have a pain in your side you go to the physician in the emergency room and they say listen I’m sorry to tell you this but you have this stage three or four going on and you know it didn’t start that morning it probably was a problem that’s been going on for some time but because we never look we don’t find out so what we built at Fountain life was the world’s most advanced diagnostic Centers we have four across the us today
[00:20:00] and we’re building 20 around the world these centers give you a full body MRI a brain a brain vasculature an AI enabled coronary CT looking for soft plaque a dexa scan a Grail blood cancer test a full executive blood workup it’s the most advanced workup you’ll ever receive 150 GB of data that then go to our AIS and our physicians to find any disease at the very beginning when it’s solvable you’re going to find out eventually might as well find out when you can take action Fountain life also has an entire side of the Therapeutics we look around the world for the most Advanced Therapeutics that can add 10 20 healthy years to your life and we provide them to you at our centers so if this is of interest to you please go and check it out go to fountainlife decom back/ Peter when Tony and I wrote Our New York Times bestseller life force we we had 30,000 people reached out to
[00:21:00] us for fountainlife memberships if you go to Fountain life.com back/ Peter we’ll put you to the top of the list really it’s something that is um for me one of the most important things I offer my entire family the CEOs of my companies my friends it’s a chance to really add decades onto our healthy lifespans go to fountainlife decomp it’s one of the most important things I can offer to you as one of my listeners all right let’s go back to our episode so I want to get into the now so you know the summary here sleep’s important 7 to 9 hours it’s critical for your health on every aspect of it you know sleep aids in in case of emergency fine but it’s actually changing your behavior that’s going to have the best long-term uh benefits for it uh caffeine in the morning um not after lunch alcohol is going to really do you damage at night now the question is your sleep highy hygiene getting yourself ready for
[00:22:00] a great night sleep and let’s jump into that and I want to hit on a number of different things and uh you can tell me what I miss here but there’s a circadian rhythm and I when I think about it probably what got me to a 97 last night which I’m so proud of right it’s like the highest score I’ve ever gotten and it’s just appropriate for on the day of this podcast um was I got to sleep at my perfect time I wore uh you know blue light blockers and I prepped a half an hour getting into sleep so let’s talk about circadian rhythm about what time you go to sleep what time you wake up uh for a second and then I want to talk about the different elements of it I want I want to give people the the tips and tricks to get a great night sleep Rebecca you want to talk about this Arcadian side of this sure so um our sleep is governed by two primary forces the first we refer to in the field is the homeostatic drive for sleep and it’s just your overall feeling of sleepiness
[00:23:01] so that simply starts to increase with each additional hour you’ve been awake but that’s not all of the equation we can all attest to this if you ever recall a time where you’re like oh I’m going to get on track and go to bed three hours early you know I’m going to go to bed early and people you know oh this is a good thing but wrong because the second force that governs our sleep is something called a circadian rhythm it’s Latin for about a day Circa Das and it refers to processes in the brain and in the body that operate in approximate 24hour fashion we’ve all adjusted our rhythms over thousands of years to the pattern of light and darkness on Earth which is about 24 hours so what’s so fascinating is if we put individual cells and Petri dishes they actually demonstrate the Circadian fashion so there are these tiny clocks that govern when things should be firing over the course of the day which makes so much sense so we’re not you know going at a million miles an hour the entire day we have a period of time as human beings where we can rest and then other cells and organs in the body can do the
[00:24:00] same so this circadian system is housed in the brain in a tiny region called the supermatic nucleus I love my favorite if you want to impress someone at a cocktail party say that 10 times fast right supermatic nucleus and it um refers to this tiny little region of the brain that sits above the optic kaym and so light comes in from your environment enters the brain through the eyeball triggers the on switch to the Circadian rhythm telling the brain to stop the floodgates of Mel tone in and then it’s time to become alert and awake and then sun sets in our environment and it’s that setting of the Sun that we perceive through our eyeballs and then triggers the secretion of melatonin it’s not instant there’s actually something fascinating that happens um right after Sunset we actually have the strongest drive for wakefulness think about that right after Sunset which is kind of counterintuitive when you think about it but we think it played this evolutionary role of hunters and gatherers running out to you know forage for the night before they go in to hibernate so then
[00:25:00] we about 90 or or a little bit longer minutes thereafter we start to become sleepy and if we weren’t in an environment with fluorescent light bulbs we would have no light to keep us awake and so we’d fall asleep and then sunlight again in the morning would trigger the on phase of that circadian rhythm so sleep is a circadian rhythm our heart rate operates on a circadian rhythm our body temperature es and flows also um and again virtually every part of the body so what that means for our sleep is the timing of our sleep is incredibly important we recently went through the time the painful time change of the hour lost during daylight saving time and we can all probably attest to that one hour making a huge difference but there were a couple things going on in the spring um spring forward transition the vast majority of Americans don’t prepare for that so they just generally take that hour hit from their sleep duration and Americans aren’t getting enough sleep so that translates into a very sleepy country more heart attacks more car accidents um more something we called uh this is my
[00:26:00] another favorite science term called cyberloafing employees show up at the office but slack off by surfing the web um so all these bad things happen um but in part is that loss of an an hour and we’re shifting our clocks also and so that one hour Believe It or Not makes a big difference and that has implications for sleeping in on the weekends so um we want to try to resist that as best as possible and really be laser focused on your target fall asleep time and your target wake up time and that will allow your circadian rhythm to know when it’s supposed to be tired and when it’s supposed to be alert and then organize itself with within those windows yeah mine I interesting I fine-tuned it when I was in medical school and I was at at HMS where you are uh uh faculty at Harvard Med School I remember I was 2 a.m. was like when I I was I would hit my stride between like 10 p.m. and 1 a.m. and and uh until morning rounds and that shifted everything again but today
[00:27:01] I need to be in bed by 9:30 I need to be in bed by 9:30 to get my score and to and then I’ll wake up at about 6: a.m. uh on my on my own typically and it’s interesting as you’re that changes throughout life doesn’t it it does so Peter your your schedule in medical school sounds a lot like my college students and medical students that I Mentor they’re traditionally owls true owls we we’re not sure why this happened this is research at Stanford um but we for some reason around puberty transition collectively by and large to being more evening like so our youngsters after PR puberty until the early 20s does this change really persist there’s this strong preference for eveningness or you know being productive in the evening hours coming alive in the evening hours generally speaking after that you can that was basic basically to get away from your parents to go find your mate and reproduce I mean I I can imagine that function like that it’s a good
[00:28:02] hypothesis Peter Tom how about you when do you wake up and go to sleep yeah you know it’s funny I’m I’m uh sort of 10 pm to 5 5 AM or six six you know between five and six and I’ve actually been experimenting with a blood glucose monitor and the thing that I learned that was just fascinating from that was that the beginning of my you know circadium rhythm in the morning is a cortisol Spike they call it the dawn Spike uh and anybody who’s worn a a glucose monitor might know this but it’s basically your body um when you’re waking up you know your temperature starts to elevate a little bit coming out of sleep you get this little blast of cortisol which is there to sort of wake up your uh wake up your body and it starts the production of glucose being released into the blood which gives you energy in the morning and the thing is that if you if you time that right that little Spike of cortisol and that glucose spike is something that kind of launches you into your day it’s actually I think in many ways what’s responsible for me feeling like I don’t need to drink coffee in the morning because I’ve got that little uh jolt of
[00:29:01] energy coming in from from waking up so the Circadian rhythm it defines so much on the other side the night they going to bedside for me the factor that mattered the most was eating late because if if I eat late and and particularly since I have a fondness for for sugary desserts you know it would have an impact on my sleep if I wasn’t careful so I have now made a real habit of making sure I give a nice window before bedtime of not eating and I try and avoid the sugary sugary desserts at night and it’s made a huge difference again in the quality not necessarily just the quantity but the quality of my sleep yeah let’s let’s talk about those specific getting ready for bed the dos and the don’ts there and one of them is eating for sure um you know those of you who’ve been my podcast we talk about intermittent fasting uh and it’s basically can you eat dinner at 6 6:30 and then fast till the next day and get a good 12 to 16 hours of fast time that helps the body in different ways but one of the other ways it helps you is to get a good night’s sleep if you are snacking
[00:30:03] um and people who take ambient for example one of the things that it does is it lowers your inhibition to eating and a lot of people are snacking late at night uh when they’re on ambient um which has a lot of detrimental effects um in terms of obesity and and others but the impact of eating late uh on your quality of your sleep let’s talk about that a second and the two things that kind of you know what you’re eating and um and when also but U one of the things that that I love to talk about in this um on this topic is the old adage from nutrition of a breakfast of Kings a lunch of princes a dinner of poppers actually been tested from the standpoint of our sleep and that also is better than much better to structure your nutritional intake a little bit heavier in the morning heavier in the afternoon and then lighter in dinner I think that’s kind of a good across the board kind of you know guid poost to keep in mind for all of us but then the intermittent fasting literature is
[00:31:00] amazing this is all s and Panda’s work at the sulk Institute um and his work is just so compelling it shows that we can move people from being pre-diabetic this you know Health trajectory and the direction of type 2 diabetes and pull them out of that nose dive really with these small changes that are you know also I think really powerful because Behavior can become a little bit mindless at night we’ve been processing information all day we’ve been doing we’ve been responding and then your day suddenly comes to a and then maybe you want to spend some time with your spouse and then you’re watching a Netflix episode and then maybe one more and so our Behavior can kind of start to spiral and then maybe enjoying some popcorn with that movie but I think one of the single things about intermittent fasting that the science is so cool but it’s also just helpful to have guardrails around Behavior you know try to be done eating by a certain time and at least give yourself an hour and a half two hours and then any more would be better of a buffer between the last time you finish eating and your bedtime time but 2 3 hours would just be would be terrific
[00:32:00] going to Ritual of getting ready for bed um and and Tom I’m I’m curious your your thoughts here my ritual just to share it and then we can comment off of that is um I try and give myself a half hour windown uh where I’m off computer I’m not watching TV I’m wearing my blue light blocking glasses and uh I’m typically actually using audible to listen to a book like a bedtime story and then I’ll put on my uh my uh eye shades I love my Manta mask uh and I use a mouth guard we’ll talk about that in a minute for sort of like not you know getting good good uh Airway and that is a ritual that gets me off to a great night’s sleep and I’m then I’m out um talk about rituals and what that sort of uh uh approach to Landing so to speak as I’m I’m a pilot I think about getting
[00:33:00] ready to get your airplane prepped and get down on to the runway of sleep Tom yeah I mean obviously not staring at a computer screen is so key uh you know the the kind of light that comes off of a a you know a lead display uh is is blue light and blue light is a signal to your body that it’s not time for bed and that you shouldn’t have that surge of uh melatonin which is the Starting Gate so um absolutely that’s probably you know first and foremost uh the second one I think and Dr Robbins can can confirm this but your your body temperature actually uh you know when you go to sleep your body temperature declines a little bit about a degree and so setting that up and getting your body into that cooling cycle is really important and you can see that there are products that actually help cool your bed or taking a hot shower at night which actually forces your internal thermostat to adjust lower these are all factors that kind of ready yourself uh and ready your body for for deep sleep in particular there are other things of course um as you said like something that’s calming or soothing and takes your mind off of
[00:34:00] the cares of the day whether that’s a reading a book or listening to a a soothing podcast or a sleep story those are all uh demonstrated obviously dark uh you know going to a dark room um the other one I think that’s really interesting is just that the the nature of how you use your bed and using your bed not for other things besides sleep makes it a place where it trains your brain to expect that when you go to bed that this is the time for sleep you start to build this kind of Association all of those factors I think come together I think the key is everyone’s different and so you have to kind of experiment with each factor to see which one is is maybe most powerful or most impactful for you as you’re optimizing your sleep over the years I’ve experimented with many intermittent fasting programs uh the truth is I’ve given up on intermittent fasting as I’ve seen no real benefit when it comes to longevity but this changed when I discovered something called prolon 5-day fasting nutrition program it harnesses is the process of autophagy this is a cellular recycling process that
[00:35:01] revitalizes your body at a molecular level and just one cycle of the 5-day prolong fasting nutrition program can support healthy aging fat focused weight loss improved energy levels and more it’s a painless process and I’ve been doing it twice a year for the last year you can get a 15% off on your order when you go to my special URL go to prolon life.com p l n l.com back slm moonshot get started on your longevity Journey with prolon today now back to the episode yeah let me let me hit on something you said and then I’ll turn turn to Dr Robbins here uh I have to have my room set at 64 deges or 63° Fahrenheit right and I have also have a you know uh an eight sleep a chilling mattress if you would that brings the temperature down and a lot of times if I W ever wake up it’s because I’m too hot um and I haven’t turned the mattress on or I haven’t set the proper environmental controls but cold is my
[00:36:03] dear dear friend for getting a great night’s sleep Dr Robbins what are your thoughts on all of these these sort of the prep mechanisms the hygiene of sleep here that’s all right on um temperature of the bedroom is a key consideration and there’s some individual preference and difference within uh the range but generally you’re really right on target uh what we generally re recommend is somewhere between 65 and 68 that keeps you in what’s called a thermal neutral zone because in certain stages of sleep we’re not able to thermally regulate our body shiver if we’re cold sweat if or hot and so we want to keep you in a Zone where you’re not going to be susceptible to those swings and if that in your environment where you live if that does you know the colder mattress pad or if you’re able to turn your thermostat down in the warmer months uh some data came out last summer that looked at sleep in the UK where air conditioning isn’t as common as the US and there were a couple heat waves and Sleep Quality was just abysmal across the country um so
[00:37:01] temperature really really matters the other dictates of a great a great room for sleep are quiet and cool uh or sorry dark dark quiet and um and cool so our eyelids are very thin I love that you’re you’re wearing an eye mask if you have any light that comes in your doorway in the morning or through your curtains then an eye mask is you know a great way to go to make sure that you’re doing your best to create a really dark and kind of cavik environment you really want to walk into your bedroom and be able to turn everything off and just literally have a hard time getting around because it’s so dark because that can again help trigger the secretion of melatonin and I think we all are maybe a little guilty of spending in other areas of our life than our bedroom um I one of my kind of jokes is I I love asking people where when they got their mattress and where because very few people can actually articulate those things they’re like oh you know Uncle Jim gave it to me 10 years ago and so we’re so much more likely to go you know buy a pair of shoes then invest in our our our you know sleep environment and I
[00:38:01] think that’s starting to change we’re kind of collectively waking up is a society to the importance of sleep so I think that it’s a really it’s just an exciting time in sleep tech and and sleep science for that reason invest in your sleep critical invest in your sleep I mean there’s so many tools and there’s so much education available now right that people can people can draw on the thing is is again everyone’s a little bit different and some people’s lives don’t actually lend themselves to you know having a really really great sleep routine maybe you’ve got young kids or maybe you have a demanding job whatever it is but there are definitely things that can work so for example if you do have to stare at screens as you said Peter having blue light blockers you know which are uh glasses that that will you know keep the blue light from getting to your you know optic nerve and then affecting the production of melatonin like that is actually really you know that’s a great solution and and I I will admit that sometimes I do check my phone after 9 um you know just to for for a last minute look at the day and I when I do that that I’ll wear blue light blockers and and and you know my sleep scores and the experiments that I run to
[00:39:00] sort of see what the impact is illustrate that those kinds of things work so it I think the key I think is that there’s lots of tools available and you need to find what works for you and having a tool that allows you to measure and track your outcome can’t yeah if you can’t measure you can’t manage it exactly is not everyone’s the same these are all great pieces of advice but the thing is you’ve got to find what works for you and your life and where you are and your and your you know in your existence because you know folks like you know who have young kids they it’s hard for them to get good sleep that’s just the nature of the business yeah I have 11 year- olds now and and you know when they were young but there are different phases in life and um you should always be trying to do your best Dr Robbins you going to say oh I just wanted to chime in I love your comments Tom around how individual especially the pre-bed time is um and whether it’s an eye mask I love your routine Peter the IM mask you know the couple things you can really think of that as your checklist what are the two or three things that soothe you and I I love the question you know what is the most relaxing thing to you is it the idea of
[00:40:01] being at a spa and if that’s the case maybe get some really nice hand creams or an aroma therapy a smell that you love and make sure to you you know integrate that into your routine and so whether it’s a warm bath and then you take off your makeup or wash your face and brush your teeth and then you turn off your iPhone these these steps they sound trivial but they’re actually really important because then you start it’s classical conditioning from psychology you start to train your brain brain to understand okay it’s a warm shower a couple pages in a book I turn off my phone and then I I meditate for 5 minutes or I do the 478 breath technique or alternate nostril breathing or another one of my favorites is progressive muscle relaxation a really easy one to do in bed crawl into the sheets turn off your phone and then clench and release different muscle groups and as your inhaling kind of Imagine a like a part of tension or you know a place where there’s tension and then as you’re exhaling you let that that go from your body and if you just do that and you know work the way up up
[00:41:00] the body you might you know find yourself sleepy by the end so whatever it is think of those things as your toolkit and I’ve used that word because that toolkit gets you to fall asleep but then that toolkit is also there for you if you’re having middle of the night insomnia so if you’re up for whatever reason you had to use the bathroom or you’re stressed then go back to that toolkit that Playbook that gets you to sleep next on my list let’s talk about that it’s it’s 3:00 a.m. your eyes pop open and you you know you’re hoping it’s 6:00 a.m. in the morning but it’s not it’s 3:00 a.m. in the morning and you know you can’t go just get up right now um and so the question is what do you do so you were saying go to that toolkit um I’ve heard people say if you’re really in insomnia get out of bed and go and um and change your environment for a few minutes and just don’t lie there and then go back to bed and try and reinitiate any advice on for people who have that bout of insomnia well the first thing is to
[00:42:01] notice that this is part of the fabric of The Human Condition Awakenings are actually not something necessarily to worry about our ancestors were sleeping in two periods they were up for you know a stretch of time in the middle of the night so number one think about just notice how you’re talking to yourself if you wake up and are you kicking yourself like oh not again and as soon as you do try to change that narrative and just tell yourself no big deal I’m up I’m going to think about doing whatever maybe got you up if it’s using the bathroom go do that and this selft talk is really important just I’m up no big deal I’m going to go back to bed and then crawl back in the covers and give it a shot and go back to that Playbook 478 breath technique think about happy thoughts maybe read a couple pages in a book and then try again turn on you know slip into and close close your eyes and then if that little voice comes on again it’s like ah not again that’s when you get out of bed as soon as that little voice voice comes on and go to your floor do a meditation technique do some gentle yoga poses um maybe read a couple
[00:43:02] pages with the light slow and then try it again come back when you’re tired and if you’re really experiencing insomnia that um that dictate of really being diligent about this leaving bed as soon as you toss and turn because there’s really this kind of old wives tale that if you stay in bed any sleep will be better than no sleep or um you know leaving the the bedroom and um or kind of leaving bed is really key to kind of set yourself and set yourself up actually for your best shot at getting back to sleep um I’ll mention something Tom I’ll ask you if you have any other advice a lot of times what wake me up is my mind is racing um I’ve just thought of something and what I typically have learned to do is go get out of bed go to my desk with the lights low or my my uh uh blue blocker uh lenses on and do a brain dump I’ll write down everything I’ve been thinking thinking about and the list of things I hope I remember in the morning and it will feel complete
[00:44:00] when I get it out of my head and then go back and try and reinitiate Tom any other advice on insomnia that I would totally Echo what you just said Peter because I think that uh sort of waking up and you’re mind racing and you’re starting to kind of process information maybe formulate some strategy like writing it down one it it saves you the need to sort of store it in memory so you can kind of Let It Go and then two I I think actually as you said you kind of say okay good you know now I’ve I’ve kind of taken care of that I I I will say this I think breathing um and Counting are are super underestimated in the toolkit because both of those things put your body you know your physiology into a restful State and if you can you know work deep nostril breathing you know long breaths uh whether it’s box breathing or 47 you know how whatever approach works for you breathing is so powerful especially if you if you couple it with sometimes uh like a sleep story something that takes your mind off of the you know whatever you’re is causing your mind to race and so breathing
[00:45:02] distraction um and having having something that allows you to sort of you know ex export the information from your mind so you don’t have to store it in memory I think those are those are all really good tactics and just the the relaxation response just to add a colleague here wrote a book on this topic and it’s not inate and so really thinking of our ability to relax is kind of a muscle that you need to build and whether it’s a breathing technique or the progressive muscle or a prayer Whatever Gets you into that state it’s something that though as human beings we really have to work at any mother of a new child you know screaming baby coming out of the womb can attest to this there’s no natural reflex which is interesting when you think about right so it’s something we have to kind of ever work for let me touch on two last subtopics um then I want to turn to the uh to The Sleep Tech these days um which is naps during the day and dealing with jet lag all right we’re back in our travel schedules again Tom I saw you in uh in Saudi Arabia last October you know
[00:46:01] 12h hour time zone change the worst um so uh do you uh think Dr Robins naps are okay if so when how long and then any advice on dealing with jet lag or you just you know are you just stuck with an hour change per day so knps in many cases can let’s start with kns um knps Can in many cases be a part of of a healthy sleep routine if you’re a healthy sleeper and you’re you maybe feel a little bit groggy in the afternoon totally fine to go for what we call a power nap which is about 20 minutes it’s going to get you a little bit of rest you know not a lot but it’s enough to kind of power you through and a much better solution than coffee I um it always makes me laugh that people will literally do anything but the one evidence-based thing that pays off sleepiness which is sleep and everyone’s like no what’s the 10-hour energy drink or you know whatever it’s sleep guys it’s not rocket size um and so can be a godson a lot of companies are waking up to this putting
[00:47:00] um nap pods and things like that in work sites um so they can be a part of a healthy sleep routine the one I’m so sorry my dog is snoring I hope you guys can hear this seven right now very on brand for the Sleep podcast I am so sorry um so uh but okay so the one exception is anyone who’s suffering from insomnia we want to build what we talked about earlier that homeostatic Drive sleep and give that person the best chance of hitting that peak in their homeostatic drive and then coupling that with their circadian rhythm and their target fall asleep time so that’s the one exception but otherwise again you know indulge in an NA if you’re feeling a little bit groggy you know I no I just I’m I’m about to have a chat with uh with Chris Paul basketball player and or Ambassador and one of the things that he swears by is the afternoon nap especially for the night game you know you think about uh for someone who has to play a game at night they can’t control their bedtime because who knows how long the game’s going to go and then you take a bus back to the hotel all these kinds of things the nap before the
[00:48:01] game in the afternoon is like it’s a standard in high performance athletes um and and again it does go back to like it is your natural thing if you’re retired the natural thing to do is to fall asleep um I think the other thing to call out and we didn’t really talk about this yet but it is about daytime Activity one of the most important daytime activities that contributes to good sleep is exercise right just just keeping your body uh both moving and active particularly not you know not close to bedtime but during the day it gives you that opportunity both to you know wear off the mental stress that you might have but also it does help prime your body for better sleep so when I’ve exercised at night that has done had a negative impact on my sleep so I I do exercise first thing in the morning I’m like usually a 7 to 8: a.m. uh Weight Workout person is that true in general that exercising at night has detrimental effects well the science is a little bit mixed on this I think we need more studies but it it kind of depends on the population I think there’s been some studies with endurance athletes that
[00:49:00] have shown no detriment um there have been other populations but I think one of the key things is just noticing what works best for your body uh we talked a little bit about C about ciran rhythms and we didn’t um get too too much too far A little bit into uh chronotypes which basically refer to your preference for being alert and productive and more a true morning person will tell me I want to get up Peter this sounds like you often type A individuals are this morning type you know morning workouts I’m up I’m you know ready to go and then you’re winding down at night and then evening people will conversely tell me that they they become alive at night and so evening people might do well to have an evening workout have a dinner and then wait two or three hours set themselves up you know shoot for a 1:00 a.m. bedtime but then their challenge is going to be keeping the morning light out of their bedroom so really investing in thick curtains so that they can sleep in their optimal window and not be disrupted let’s talk about jet lag which destroys a lot of people and you know I’m not immune to it typically it hits
[00:50:01] me on the second night and the third night um any advice I mean the old adage is uh it takes you an hour to shift uh an hour I mean a data shift an hour time zone is that still correct Dr Robbins I believe so and essentially the all refers to modern day air travel and the amazing ability to wake up you know in Australia rocket lab yeah but our of course our internal rhythms are lagging behind in our home um in our home location so the key question for me with this is how long is your trip are you going to be there for two days then I’d say rip off the Band-Aid do you’re going to be in survival mode it’s not going to be pleasant but I’d say it’s probably not worth adjusting to your new time zone and then having to readjust back because if you do want to adjust to the the new Destin the destination time zone in a perfect scenario you’re really being thoughtful and preparing so using that you know one day per hour and then thinking okay if it’s London from Boston I’m going to start preparing a week out and move my my bedtime methodically in
[00:51:02] the Direction one of the kind of the myths as people say oh I’m going to take an overnight flight I’m going to wake up in London and I’m G to walk around uh you know best thing walk around in the morning but what that’s actually doing if you think about it from a circadian rhythms standpoint I’ve landed in the middle of my biological night and so if I expose myself to light what I’m actually do is extend doing is extending my rhythm B basically putting myself on California time and so think about where you’re moving towards and then how you’re shifting your internal Rhythm and I I’m telling you we’ll get circadian scientists together and be like wait which direction again it’s so confusing to think about this you know light and rhythms and time and the directions but do use blue light to your advantage but if you’re going from say New York to London the key time to expose yourself to light is actually in the afternoon so wear sunglasses in the morning and then try maybe get a small nap and and then sunlight exposure and you’re really going to be on kind of a modified schedule for the first you know night or
[00:52:00] two anyway and then hopefully adjusting thereafter you know this is the hardest problem of being kind of a global business traveler is that there really is no perfect solution honestly I I I do find that um light exposure is really powerful for sort of you know sort of setting that trigger and if you’re intentional about light exposure you can make a you can make a big difference in the feeling of jet lag you know you can give yourself that sort of feeling of wakefulness um I I uh I’ve often used a product called time shifter uh which is basically a scheduled uh set of activities whether it’s drinking coffee or going to bed later or uh light exposure to start to to to shift your time particularly for long trips that’s actually what I used when I went to to uh Saudi Arabia and and it you know it it did make a difference but it was not a perfect solution um there is just some amount of Shifting you’re going to have to go through with your body adjusting to a new time zone and a new Rhythm hey everybody this is Peter a quick break from the episode you I’m a firm believer that science and technology and how entrepreneurs can change the world is
[00:53:02] the only real news out there worth consuming I don’t watch the crisis News Network I call CNN or Fox and hear every devastating piece of use on the planet I spend my time training my neural net the way I see the World by looking at the incredible breakthroughs in science and technology how entrepreneurs are solving the world’s Grand challenges what the breakthroughs are are in longevity how exponential Technologies are Transforming Our World so twice a week I put out a Blog one blog is looking at the future of longevity age reversal biotech increasing your health span the other blog looks at exponential Technologies AI 3D printing synthetic biology AR VR blockchain these Technologies are transforming what you as an entrepreneur can do if this is the kind of use you want to learn about and shape your neural Nets with go to demand.com back/ blog and learn more now
[00:54:00] back to the episode all right let’s go to the third part here um I’m a geek uh I love Tech uh and I love my aura ring I think I was one of the earliest users of Aura when it was you know really huge and you know I’m holding my ring here and it’s just an Exquisite device because of the tech that’s packed into it uh let’s see if we can uh rattle off Tom one second what first of all the or rings become beautiful uh you beautified it uh nicely uh but what is inside we got we have a we have Bluetooth transmitter to get to your phone we’ve got batteries in there and a bunch of sensors infed LEDs you’ve got red LEDs you’ve got green LEDs those LEDs are different for different kind of wavelengths of of of and also their resistance to noise so green LEDs are great for heart rate during the day um red LEDs are great for continuous measurement uh during during the night so if you’re measuring SP2 and you’re using or a ring you’ll often see a red a red light around around the edge of your ring um there are negative T negative
[00:55:02] temperature coefficient sensors um Advanced calibrated sensors there’s finger detection an IR sensor there’s uh SP2 sensors there are there the the sort of photo photo receptors that are reading the light that comes back from the light that’s shining into your body uh battery life is very very effective where you know we kind of expect to be able to get you 5 to seven days under heavy usage there’s memory on board the device 16 me to store data so that you can go you know for a couple of days and not have to copy the data up to your up to your phone or into the cloud um all of these things will enable you to track your heart rate your temperature your respiration your blood oxygen your sleep including sleep onset and sleep stages we’re just about to introduce a new sleep staging algorithm which is on par with you know the most accurate gold standard that there is uh we’ve got things for U for Women’s Health so being able to look and see how your cycle is affecting all sorts of aspects of your physiology your temperature of course is uh hugely implicated in where you are in your cycle so we can see very clearly
[00:56:00] when you’re about to have the surge of of the hormones that that that regulate your your uh your cycle we can see those things on your temperature changes and then content of course you know all of these things are in the app to help you understand your data and your experience translated into Data in a way that you can understand it really easily through three score sleep activity and Readiness and and sleep is of course how well did you sleep and you know congratulations Peter on your 9 seven that may be an all-time high I don’t think I’ve gotten anywhere near that I’ve pressed 90 a few times yeah it’s it’s I was was really shocked by it uh I want to come back to that in a minute but uh for those of you who have not or ring.com is the uh is the website um uh it’s amazing what’s been packed in this I mean again just from a tech standpoint it’s a beautiful packaging and if you’re watching this this podcast on on YouTube you know this the ring looks like a wedding ring it’s not so it used to be the early versions had a very large uh head on them that had the tech but the tech has become
[00:57:00] super micr miniaturized um and you have it in gold and silver and black and stealth and a whole slew of different different designs and I I know a lot of people who actually use it as their wedding ring uh which is which is pretty cool um and it just to again it’s measuring uh those LEDs the red and the green and the blue LEDs are looking at waveform in the little arteries on the underside of your finger is that correct that’s right yeah that’s important by the way because I think many people think about um you know the The Ring Of course is being very small and very light it’s four gram so it feels great it’s actually a great tool to go to sleep with because it’s the one thing you don’t take off your body when you get into bed you know you’re just it just sort of goes with you but it is really important to understand that this this site on the body is a really uh excellent sight for measurement um and the reason for that is is twofold one is it’s on the Leading Edge of the pulse waveform so when your heart pulses and blood shoots down your arteries down
[00:58:01] your arm it goes straight through the Palmer artery right underneath the sensors and there’s you know a not very much flesh in between that pulse and your uh your sensors plus that flesh is very uniform you know you’re talking about basically you know kind of very you know very little muscle and a little fat that’s that’s basically the tissue so the signal that comes back from this site on the human body when you shine light into it and what what light is refracted back it’s it’s 50 to 100 times better and more accurate than what you might get on the outside of your wrist and why is that well C first of all you’re receiving the signal on the the trailing edge of the pulse waveform you’re getting capillary action as it’s returning to your heart secondarily the tissue here is not uniform you’ve got bone you’ve got sen you’ve got tissue you’ve got hair your skin may be darkened by by light and and melanin this is a famous court case right now Apple’s being um uh accused that that their measurement for people of color is actually not as accurate simply because the light that’s absorbed into the skin
[00:59:00] based on on different profiles of melanin actually changes the the the readings that the the device gives back so all of these things add up to a a really great site for measurement and you think about it when you go to a doctor they put the pulse ox monitor on the tip of your finger and shine a light into it that’s where they put it they don’t put it on the outside of your wrist so that accuracy is really key and that translates into accuracy around sleep as well because the way we interpret sleep is we’re looking for these changes in things like your temperature uh you have accelerometers and Gyros on the on the uh device so we’re looking for motion we’re looking for uh you know changes in your heart rate and respiration and your HRV which turns out to be a really interesting predictor of moving between moving between uh different stages of sleep so the accuracy is really critical because it means that really that the software and the sensors get to know you personally and rather than sort of giving you some average it’s really personalized to you your experience of your physiology yeah and for me this is about when people say what does your O ring do for you um it’s about gamifying
[01:00:03] my sleep right I know when I go to sleep at night I’m shooting just for fun cuz that’s who I am I’m shooting for my best night sleep and I know if I get to sleep at 10: versus 9:30 or if I have that glass of wine in the back of my brain it’s going it’s going to impact your sleep and that becomes a trained Behavior Uh uh for me and uh it it works I mean if you if you can’t measure it you can’t improve it we’ve said we said that before and it’s it’s true um and you know I guess does can anybody get to 100 if you’re ever seen a hundred a score on this thing it does happen yeah it does happen it’s it’s very rare um and we you know we we we we think it’s pretty pretty amazing that people can do that but there’s you know a slew of factors that if you really drive you you can get there it’s not necessary uh you know just making incremental improvements in your sleep will yield
[01:01:01] major improvements in the quality of your life and as you point out your your mindset your mental health is tied to it but also your longevity um I I I go back and forth on the gamification and actually philosophically at the company I think we’re mostly about giving your body a voice and allowing you to really you know understand that voice and how it changes from its Baseline that is the key it’s about saying you know give you an example one of one of my colleagues has a a body temperature that’s actually about a degree below 98.6 and so when he’s goes to the doctor and he has a temperature reading that says 98.6 you know what he’s got he’s got a fever and that’s because he is different from everybody else and the thing is like giving your physiology that kind of Baseline so you can understand the deviations from it that’s the key because as you change your behaviors you can see the deviations and understand how you can improve or how that affects your physiology so sleep would be one example heart health would be another Fitness would be another all these things are are are measured from your Baseline because you know what for some people 10,000 steps is great for other
[01:02:00] people 2,000 steps is is way too much so it is important to to think about it as a as a personalized experience for you which is really the future to think about just how personalized the advice because when we give people these um you know to almost bring it back to sleep duration if we give people these you know ranges or a number like eight hours go for that um and then that’s hard if someone’s you know that’s not their target number and then they feel uncomfortable and then can spiral kind of into some sleep difficulties so the personalization is is really exciting it happens all the time I mean people are always HRV is a is a metric that in some sense it’s not as well understood or well known I think by the common public you know heart rate variability it’s maybe where heart rate resting heart rate was in the 90s you know people didn’t really know if it what was what was good or what was bad or you know what zone they need be we’ve all become I think really attuned to that because largely I think Fitness wearables have have educated people HRV is one that it’s great for Recovery it it measures sort of the degree of change between heartbeats and that degree of change
[01:03:00] between heartbeats is a good indicator almost of the tension between your your nervous systems your parasympathetic and your sympathetic nervous system so HRV is one of these metrics that as you get educated about it you learn how important it is and you start to see how sensitive it is a bad night’s sleep uh a glass of wine um a big workout two days ago like you’ll see that in your heart rate variability and it becomes something that you start to really change your behavior around as you as you learn it I I think it’s so important to recognize though because we get this question all the time what’s a good heart rate variability and the answer is there isn’t one it’s what’s good for you and by the way it does change over your life and men and women have different ranges but it’s not there’s not one answer um it’s it’s a set of guidelines and frankly it’s about your physiology and the voice of your body talking to you you just need to know how to listen to it and what to do about it amazing well Dr Rebecca Robbins uh and CEO of or ring tomm hell thank you for this hour uh I hope those of you listening um realize sleep is a critical superpower for your
[01:04:01] health uh for your peace of mind uh for those that you love and those that love you um I love my aura ring just going to put it out there uh if you haven’t played with one uh they are relatively inexpensive and they’ll change how you spend a third of your lifespan in sleep so uh check it out and guys thank you so much for our time together [Music] today