[Music] if you want to solve a massive problem you have to ask a different question than anyone else has asked before we need to go deep into the biology and in order to go deep into the biology we need to collect massive amounts of data from a very broad population we have collected one quadrillion biological data point just with the oral microbiome it’s like going from black and white to color you basically are living in the analog world until we can digitize the human body we as humans are walking talking ecosystem there’s no reason we shouldn’t be thinking of food as a medicine can we actually use food as a medicine to change the underlying expression of both the human genes and microbial genes and bring the body back into homeostasis everybody Peter here welcome to moonshots I’m here with a dear dear
[00:01:01] friend naven Jane uh the CEO of viome and a new friend Guru who’s the CTO and head of AI for viome gentlemen uh so naen are you up in Seattle today I am pet I just got back last night from Germany but you know this podcast is so important I would miss it for the world fantastic and Guru how about yourself where in the planet are you same I’m I’m I’ve been hanging out with uh navine in Germany and then uh just got back here in well well welcome back on your Global trotting so we’re going to Let’s dive into the subject of artificial intelligence and healthcare because I think it’s one of the most important topics that we’re in the midst of you know when people look at the US Health Care System we rank something like 23rd in the world despite having an extraordinary budget and I think about the fact that you know it’s so expensive to get a medical degree and there’s so there’s such a need for doctors nurses
[00:02:01] health coaches and the question is how do we raise health care and make it actually affordable and effective because it’s not right now and I think AI is the means by which we do that and there’s without the question when I think about Ai and Medicine Ai and health uh viome is near the top of the stack there I mean this has become Central uh to biome uh but let’s let’s begin really very quickly nine with what is viome and then let’s jump into AI of it all sure so I think Peter we set out to solve one big problem 97% of all Healthcare dollars are spent on chronic diseases and they’re not spent on infectious diseases right and our whole Health Care system is primarily designed for acute care for infectious diseases and it manages the chronic disease dises
[00:03:00] because if you think about it in the last 00 years people did not live that long and there were not very many chronic diseases and people just needed to take care of hey I broke my leg I have this infectious diseases and we solved that problem in 1950s when we got the antibiotics right but now we have this massive epidemic of chronic diseases and most people who may not know what I mean by chronic diseases these are the metabolic diseases obesity diabetes heart disease right the these are mental health issues depression anxiety addiction neurodegenerative diseases cancer or even aging because aging is just another disease and we fundamentally start to think about and saying what changes at the onset and during the progression of these diseases if we can find exactly what changes in the human body we’ll be able to solve this problem and Peter you and I have talked about in the past also if you want to solve a massive problem you have
[00:04:01] to ask a different question than anyone else has asked before and that is the fundamentally what we see look the whole world is so focused on understanding the genes and DNA and we realize that especially in the chronic diseases your DNA doesn’t change at the onset or during the progression of these diseases so if you do my DNA test today and I gain 200 lounds my DNA is still the same I have become diabetic my DNA is still the same I get heart disease depression anxiety and then I die 100 years after I die you do my DNA test again yet identical DNA so if DNA can’t tell you you’re dead or alive how will it ever tell you you’re healthier or sick I love that I love that in the and it’s so true right you know we get 3.2 billion letters from our mom 3.2 billion letters from our dad but your DNA is not your destiny and as you’ve talked about before it’s which genes are on which genes are off it’s your control of your
[00:05:01] DNA and I I think one of the things that you discovered in viome is we have the ability to understand not just our DNA but the expression of it in the form of RNA which is actually what’s going on in your cells in your body that’s right just so that’s one part is understanding RNA the second part of the thing that was puzzled was 99% of all the genes that are expressed in our body don’t come from a mom and dad and that’s a f mental problem right they come from microbiome they live in your gut they live in your mouth they live all over our body they live on nasal cavity in the ear cavities 99% so think about that until we understand how they are in a symbiotic relationship with we us as human host and this is the part I want people to understand we as humans are walking talking ecosystem we are in symbiotic relationship with these organism they are not parasite on on us in fact the many of the foods we eat
[00:06:02] cannot be digested by the human body in fact they are digested by these microbes and in turn they release the nutrients that our body can’t produce such such as short chain fatty acids and many of the metabolites that are signal to our immune system and our immune system is being trained by these microbiome so much so Peter 70% of all of our immune cell is along our digestive in think about that for a second 70% of immune system is along a gut lining being trained so the fundamental problem of AI that needed to be solved and here’s why healthare has failed so Peter first thing is the healthare failed for many reasons number one was they completely ignored this idea of 99% of the genes that are expressed by microbiome so they look at these organisms as a parasite something to be killed that came from our whole philosophy of infectious
[00:07:01] diseases every time there was an infection it was a bacteria or a virus so they basically waged the war on microbiome they Wag the war on this right so it’s it’s a war on you know organism that caused many of these symbiotic relationship to break down and with this disbiosis came the body not being at ease that we call dis ease is a disease right so the the solve the problem Peter to use Ai and a digital tool I just wanted to get to the AI part that you wanted to ask me the reason AI has not been so successful is our whole medical system despite us talking about electronic medical record is still is more or less an analog system right you basically are living in the analog world until we can digitize the human body we can’t use the digital tools that allows you to dematerialize demonetize and democratize
[00:08:01] all of the healthare that we need to do so bringing the cost down understanding what is happening and that was the first thing we did so digitization was how do we get the RNA of the human body from every place that matters and what we did at w was very unique was we didn’t come up with the hypothesis and this is where a lot of the early science was broken people come up with the hypothesis I think this is what causes Alzheimer and we’re going to go attack that we say we don’t know what causes what why not collect the data let the data tell us what is going on so let the AI come up with an idea well of course I mean that that’s brilliant but in the old days when we’re talking about a physician or a nurse or the Health Care System there is no way in the world that a human being could possibly process all that data I mean the medical exam was you know a reflex hammer on the knee was
[00:09:00] listening to your heart and your lungs coughing maybe it was a sputum sample to see if there was something going on there but the amount of data you can collect right now is awe inspiring and in that data is the truth yes and so we decided that there basically your body is really has three I mean if you look at your body we start from there a tube that goes through us the top of the tube is our mouth and by the way most people ignore this completely so far because your mouth has 2 trillion microbiome oh my God I ignore I ignored it and I got into so much trouble when I had an a Tooth dental procedure and I ended up in a sinus infection and I was I was like I’m not going to take antibiotics I’m not going to take antibiotics I don’t want to screw up my microbiome you know in the fourth night when I was literally in bed in pain and I started to get a fever I was like oh my God the reason
[00:10:00] humans are living as long as we have is because we invented micro you know antibiotics 50 years ago so I finally took the antibiotics and it clear it up but then then I’m playing catchup on my microbiome to fix it for the next six months and so Peter what we realized was now there is so much data that we have collected we have collected one quadrillion biological data point just with the oral microbiome total we have now we 52.5 five quadrillion biological data points put that in just to put that in perspective Peter this is the 16 Z this is the largest database on Humanity ever collected by humans right I don’t know and we don’t know Peter what aliens may or may not have done on Humanity but this is absolutely the largest database on Humanity ever collected and this is a dynamic data so that means what are your microbes doing
[00:11:01] what how your immune system is reacting to you so what we do is we analyze your saliva looking at your oral microbial gene expression and looking at the human gene expression we look at your bottom of the tube which is your gut microbiome and epithelial cells how are they reacting to it because there the immune system that is going on and then we look at the finger prick blood looking at your mitochondria looking at all of your cyto kindes right and then we’re looking at all of this intera and they be saying hey what is going on when we people have diabetes what is going on when people have heart disease what’s going on people have IBS or IBD because you can imagine be when you have a you know remission or relapse of IBD your DNA is the same and your microbiome is the same something changes that have a relapse or remission so Guru you were at IBM Watson uh which really was the first AI system to make a splash you know Watson winning against uh the top
[00:12:02] players in the game of Jeopardy was like an epic event I remember on every stage I would speak about how it well it did and then you know the IBM team under your leadership started differentiating uh into medicine and other fields so the question I have for you is how long has it been possible now to actually process this level of data and extract wisdom or knowledge or you know decision out of this data how has it been like the last 2 or 3 years has it been 10 years and what’s making it possible to process quadrillions of data points great great question Peter so I want to sort of start from that big economy picture that you were talking about and say that you have the health care delivery part of the system and then there’s the actual biology and the medicine part of the system okay so even when you think about the humongous amounts of data that has been generated in The Med medical system or the healthare system it’s been on the
[00:13:00] healthcare delivery side of it and this is a crucial point because the healthcare delivery part of it is very shallow it’s looking at what happened what are the symptoms what are the treatments what happened and so on for example claims data right there’s a ton of claims data there’s a ton of medical notes and so on turns out in the world today we generate something like 10 to the 23 or 10 to the 24 uh bytes of data uh today but the majority of the healthcare data is on the delivery side not on the biology side so 10 years ago when we did the Jeopardy system and all of the other AIS in fact I remember making all of the big decisions we made at IBM to acquire data we were thinking about acquiring the delivery system data which is the claims processing and yes there was a you know there was a ton of image processing data but that was still
[00:14:00] one modality of data and it wasn’t going deep into the biology so what’s changed in the last maybe 5 years is that we’ve started getting into the biology and that I think is a GameChanger because you’re now getting deeper and deeper you’re looking at what the cells are doing you’re looking at what the molecules within the cells are doing you’re looking at how the molecules are interacting with each other you’re looking at how the molecules from the microbes and the molecules from the human are interacting with each other that data is relatively new and I I’m happy to say and in fact that was one of the reasons I decided to join naven to start viome is that we need to go deep into the biology and in order to go deep into the biology we need to collect massive amounts of data from a very broad population can’t be just you know one segment of the population or the other segment it should be across the world different demographics different geography and we need to get biological data which means we need to collect multiple samples from each human being in different parts of their body that’s
[00:15:01] what you know when we talk about top of the tube bottom of the tube around the tube and so on we want to collect as much biological data and we need to make sense of the biological data so that’s what’s changed the last I I I get I so I get this that access to uh uh to robust data sets um connected to outcomes is the very first um the second question though is uh hasn’t there has there been uh substantial increase in computational power per dollar that you can that you can invest in this right and then the algorithms I think about it I think about its its its data its computational speed and its algorithmic improvements that are making this possible those those those are the three real elements and and I just want to I just want to make the point that in the Last 5 Years there’s been breakthroughs in all three areas right uh in the data side we got biological data and this is absolutely critical because even today a lot of people don’t understand that without biological data we cannot do much in you
[00:16:01] know really understanding but on the on the algorithmic side there’s also been a breakthrough there’s been a breakthrough with this new um Transformer architecture which has been the basis of all the generative AI but you know that’s one of actually multiple breakthroughs that are that are going on and we can talk more about any of those things and of course and video’s chips uh and it’s massive computational Farms that are available you know I don’t think people realize that the kind of data viome is collecting is not the data you get almost any place else let me just to talk about this one second you know you might typically go and get a uh genetic analysis of your stool sample and what they’re doing typically is looking at the DNA of the organisms that are there and you know they’ll say you have this organism whether you have one copy or trillion copies of that organism and and that and all organisms are not the same and they don’t behave the same
[00:17:00] but when you’re actually looking at the RNA of the organisms you’re actually saying well these organisms are actually have these genes turned on and are processing you know this kind of uh food in this particular way it is it’s like going from black and white to color when you’re looking at um at the situation so it’s the first time really this depth of biological data for analysis has ever been possible you know n this in our moonshots program a lot of my focus here is helping entrepreneurs go big um and to tackle huge problems uh and I just want to take a second um and Define vom’s actual moonshot and then in a in a brief moment to talk about the Arc of what you did here cuz it’s amazing the entrepreneurial journey of where you
[00:18:01] started and where you’ve ended up and then I want to come back to the AI of it all so what is vom’s moonshot if you were going to Define that absolutely one simple our thought was what if and that always every moonshot from starts with what if right what if we can understand the changes in the human biology at the onset and during the progression of chronic diseases we should be able to prevent stop the progression and God forbid outright reverse these chronic diseases using potentially the nutrition as a medicine uh because at the end of the day there’s no reason we shouldn’t be thinking of food as a medicine and that is a fundamentally moonshot was can we actually use food as a medicine to change the underlying expression of both the human genes and microbial genes and bring the body back into homeostasis and understand what needs to be changed once
[00:19:00] we understand what changes when people have these diseases right and that was our moon sh was fundamentally preventing and reversing chronic diseases by understanding what happens at the onset and progression of these dis let food be thy medicine is uh is dates back to ancient Greece it’s uh it’s it’s and it’s true your fellow fellow Greek hypocrates um and and so what you know it’s interesting the origin story of Amon shot is always fascinating and I love your origin story in the labs of New Mexico do you mind just very briefly summarizing that because and as as people are listening to this I want you to hear about the Brilliance of of what a a moonshot entrepreneur does when they see something and go fascinating I could build something from this so take me back soet as I started that once we realize that it’s not the DNA it will have to be the RNA for us to solve this
[00:20:00] problem and the question was how do we do the RNA analysis as an entrepreneur once we realize we have to do the RNA and I you know I first thing was I went to NASA trying to figure out since they’re going to the Mars they must have obviously figured out what these organisms are doing turns out no so went to all NASA headquarters in Houston went to Kennedy Space Center went to Lawrence Berkeley Lawrence liverm and finally found the technology and as most people have watched the movie open himim realize that Los Almos National Lab is really where the atomic bomb was developed even though it was called Manhattan Project it was never done in Manhattan it was done Los right and to me when we were there we found that they were working on a next generation of technology to actually understand the biolog biod defense that what would we do if there was a biot terror in our great country how would we actually protect ourselves we didn’t care what organisms were there we cared about what they they are producing so we can create an antidote for it right and that
[00:21:02] fundamental technology was RNA technology so just just just to slow this down a second so you’re shopping for Technologies and one of the things most people don’t know is a number of Our National Labs and our government institutes are developing they’re doing lots of R&D they’re creating things and they sit on the Shelf they don’t get commercialized that’s not their job they aren’t they aren’t entrepreneurs they aren’t businessmen they’re researchers and so here L Livermore lab is saying you know if we ever have biod defense Warfare we need to understand uh what the weapon is and how it’s impacting us and uh you know DNA isn’t going to cut it we actually need because there’s a lot of biod Defense uh uh viral viruses which are RNA viruses and also how is it going to affect you so what they had in their developed in their lab what a a way of act actually looking at the RNA
[00:22:00] expression in human cells wasn’t it that’s right both the biological both the microbial cells viral cells fungi anything they didn’t care they needed to see what organisms were expressing and how it is impacting the human a human host because that’s how they needed to know what what Terror was being caused here right and that’s literally but Peter I want to emphasiz just one more thing every single one of these lab and every NASA you can go to NASA website they literally list down all the inventions that they have done that you as an entrepreneur can license it today amazing amazing and and and so and so uh what was the moment where you said whoa there’s something valuable here that I could build a business on so the minute we found that they were working on this technology that could analyze RNA it suddenly everything made sense now if I can get access to this technology we can create a great company right so point was the person who was a uh you know Pi
[00:23:00] who was a you know primary investigator we actually convinced him that this is the way to change the humanity and once he got on board we able to get the license of this technology uh from L alos toome and that was a fundamental change once we did our job as an entrepreneur was how do we build this technology to be automated how do we scale it how do we create a massive amount of data set and to do do that we realize you know most other entrepreneur will say oh let’s do a research on a coloral cancer or pick a disease you want and we will spend collecting a million sample will cost a billion dollars and we’ll go out and do that we say no that is not how entrepreneurship is done what if you can build a consumer product that is so good that every single person would want it oh oh my God you’re going is into a b tooc business uh going direct to Consumer is epic it is so hard and you know I was just
[00:24:00] talking to some friends here who said you’ve built one of the most extraordinary uh directed consumer Brands and and congrats it is one of the hardest things to do especially in the health space to go at scale so you’ve invested I think it’s like almost $200 million of capital you’ve raised to build viome um uh let’s talk a littleit about what the what were the elements of the business that had to be built in order to get to where you’re going and now of course the most important part where Guru is your Guru is the AI of it all yeah so the first part was uh is make making sure that we collect massive amount of phenotype data and massive amount what is phenotype what is phenotype data so basically so every time you do a a test so it’s called a full body intelligence test you give us a spit of your saliva Touch of your stool four drops of your fingerpri blood and now we do a complete RNA analysis
[00:25:00] but we also ask you because we are making a recommendation for you so the way it works is you give us the sample we analyze the sample we tell you what’s happening in your body from your biological age and I think Guru will explain to me this is the best biological age tool ever created and we can go back and tell you why right biological is it is it the best tool because it makes you to be really young the pain no so because it does not use one simp Le Point of data so people measure biological age by looking at the telome length they look at some of the epigenetic marker instead of looking at 5 1050 epigenetic marker what if you look at all epigenetic marker which is gene expression so we literally look at everything not just one thing everything that’s happening in your saliva everything that’s happening in your sto everything that’s happening in your and how old are you intervene how old are you intervene on this EP I am chronologically 64 and biologically 52 okay all right well I I know uh you’re also a teenager in many other respects
[00:26:00] too so there you go so P so continuing on that part idea was once you build this consumer tool that gives you biological a your cognitive Health your heart health right your gut health your oral health then we see this is what you need to do don’t eat broccoli because your sulfide production is too high causing inflammation or you are trying to eat too much protein is not being digested is being fermented by the microbes releasing ammonia causing inflammation so you need to take digestive enzyme with this protein if you’re going to be eating it don’t eat spinach or kale because they are not being digested by your microbes because your oxalates are not being metabolized don’t eat avocado because your uric acid production is too high so now by doing that we ask consumers this is where phenotype comes in is every single symptom you have every single disease you have every single drug you are taking and instead of asking you do you have a depression we ask we have you run through all the phq9 questionnaire so we
[00:27:01] have a clinical gold data about your depression similarly we have you run through the questionnaire on IBD so Crone colitis where IBS and we have these hundreds of these what I would call clinical questionnaire so we know exactly what is happening in your body and the reason you tell us is because this is what we use to make the recommendation so we are not interfering with your drugs we not interfering ING with your any of the diseases you have so we able to collect this massive amount of clinical data now we have all biological data and then we now tell you hey you also need 22 mgram of mlas every day you need 19 milligram of lopen every day you need 17 mgram of elderbury every day so we tell you every vitamin mineral herbs digestive enzyme amino acid probiotic Prebiotic and Peter the first time this is another thing I learned from you once you build Ai and Robotics the
[00:28:01] robots don’t care if you make the same thing million times or you make million times something totally different and we actually implemented that and say what if we can custom make the capsules for each individual every single month because we’re going to have a robotic compounding pharmacy it says this is coming for Peter diamandis go to bin number seven get 22 milligram get to bin number eight get 18 mgram and then we make the powder shake the powder up put them in a capsule put them in a sachche and literally Peter just like this here this is made just for me and look at the date it’s made 10 days ago so it literally just what you need nothing that you don’t so what I love about what I love about you’ve done and I mean full disclosure my Venture fund bold capital is an investor at every stage we’re on the board of viome and it’s cuz I care about the company care about you as an incredible moonshot entrepreneur and uh
[00:29:02] and someone who I care about deeply but I I I want those listening to to realize the journey you’ve been on in building the components one at a time um building the brand building the adjacencies right because and asking that what if question over and over and over again and so understanding RNA and understanding first in the stool but saying that’s not enough we now need to look at the oral microbiome and look at the blood and get a full picture and once we have that full picture when we start to understand what it is that is in disbiosis or disease as you said what can we provide to you um and what you get on the app and i’ I’ve been a user I probably it’s time for me to do my next quarterly checkup um uh in the in the uh total uh body intelligence here but it’s like these are the foods you should eat uh
[00:30:01] you know the green light Foods this is yellow this is red this is what you should not eat and then here’s the supplements and so and I think one of the things that’s important in health and I I talk about this in in Fountain and uh in other companies is the is you’re constantly fine-tuning your body’s always adopting and changing um and and so this this iterative cycle of fine-tuning it and making sure you you understand uh you know I think the AI element of this has really it’s phenomenal just about to I just want to tell you one more thing here about as an entrepreneur the Brilliance of what we did was we were moving towards our goal but to get there we couldn’t have gotten there on day one so this is really setting up the underlying framework and the data right now ultimate goal was to be able to diagnose the disease early to be able to cure them by having the intervention so we did supplements and
[00:31:01] then we said look we don’t know how to adjust oral microbiome so now we launch guess what the oral biotic speeder right so we just call now look at the name vrx vomee prescription for your oral microbiome personalize toothpaste to adjust your oral microbiome the reason we are doing it is to understand what is working and what is not working and when we make a particular change does it change the disease or not so now I I don’t want to say this but you understand now we are able to do the human clinical trial understanding the changes that are happening so we say look these people have this thing and if we change this we believe the disease should go away and we change it and God when they do the test and we say look the symptoms are gone now we not preventing any disease we are not curing any disease we not making any claims of doing it but now we have a path of what changes using these
[00:32:01] nutrition elements now based on all this data we collected then we utilize Ai and then I want Guru to explain the Brilliance of what he did is he’s able to now look at all this data and say no you know what naen we are able to detect stage one cancer in your mouth or throat this is so good we should take it to FDA and when we took to FDA FDA said this is such a breakthrough we received a breakthrough device designation from FDA for detecting the oral cancer and throat cancer for stage one cancer at 95% specificity and 90% sensitivity and Peter here’s what I’m going to ask you that’s amazing yeah here’s the thing in 21st century Peter we can land on Mars and you know how we detect our cancer your dentist rubs the finger on your gum says I don’t feel anything so you’re feeling the cancer in the 21st century
[00:33:01] is a standard of care yeah no it’s it’s pretty sad uh so so Guru talk about um uh how this data and the analysis and the feedback loop to actually know that you’re you’re what you’re reporting what you’re finding is is validated talk about that yeah so um I have a a concept in my head which I’d like to convey to your listeners which is the concept of a digital twin so imagine that every single person on the planet has a digital representation which is kind of like a model of their biology and it’s not just you know one model it’s actually a collection of many models you know there’s a model of what is going on in your mouth there’s a model of what’s going on in your gut in fact there’s many models many algorithms that together forms a twin of you Peter Guru before you go too far Peter did that 15 years ago and he started a company that
[00:34:01] whole idea was to create a digital twin yeah but you is this is this a biological is this a biological digital twin and if yes I would like to know how far you’ve come so far because I’m going to make the point that we’ve come the farthest I’m actually presenting next week in um in a conference at uh you know of the digital twin uh you know community in the US and I would I would make the point that you cannot do a digital twin on unless you get to the dynamic part of the biology which is what you can get with RNA right so now we I believe we have a digital twin and without the digital twin we would not be able to predict right I can ask the question what is the glycemic response of Peter’s digital twin to a piece of bread bless you thank you to a um you know to to to a banana to a you know a uh a rice pudding right so I can ask all of these questions of the digital twin and I get get back answers because I know what your digital um you know RNA
[00:35:01] expression is not only of the human cells but also of the microbial cells number one number two I can then create these risk profiles I can say what is the risk of Peter to get diabetes down the road what is the risk for Peter to end up with you know let’s say colon polyps or whatever whatever else I can ask all of these questions of the digital because I know what the dynamic biology is doing today I can fast forward that or I can look at very large populations I can ask these questions that’s number two number three we can say what might happen to the digital twin if we were inter you know if you’re providing an intervention and adding supplement AB or C you know what if I add more berate what if I add you know more anti-inflammatory or anti you know you you name it right so anti- um
[00:36:02] uh you know insulin type of you know type of um you know ingredients then I can see what’s going on so this is the point about experimentation so when you have a digital twin that is true to the to the real person then you can run um these experiments digitally figure out what’s likely to work and then you can feed that back into the actual person so those are the kinds of Concepts that we built I I I I I I get it but there’s there’s another part which is super super important that I really want to make sure is understood it’s the fact that when you have someone uh on the viome system um providing this phenotypic data asking these questionnaires and then taking the full body intelligence and then and then modifying their diet and then wash rinse repeat uh you’re getting a lot of closed loop data here you do that’s what I mean by experiments yes which and that longitudinal data is so fundamentally so
[00:37:00] how many uh how many members have gone through this so far naine and how many you know longit how much longitudinal data do you have because that’s got to be fine-tuning the system massive so we have analyzed over 600,000 samples collecting I told you 52.5 quadrillion and there is a massive amount of longitudinal data from these people and we have in fact shown that when we tell you this is what your biological score is in fact it is true so in fact we do every time we do we reverse we do two things if we tell you for example your but rate pathway is this and next time you say hey now this has gotten better or worse then we should be able to say what other symptoms would have changed if it got better and we prove it so we have proven that when we say your butter score is high that means lot of these symptoms should go down that would actually be impacted with a high but rate and if
[00:38:00] they don’t match we say look our algorithm is wrong right same thing we do in terms of longitudinal data when we say hey do these scores actually improve when we give them these nutrition and Guru if you I don’t know if it’s okay to show slides or not but unbelievable that in 3 to six months let let me hit let me hit on a couple of points first um and and that is someone who’s Used viome 2 years ago right and got data and said okay um the it did or didn’t work for me uh it the food recommended uh didn’t change or whatever the system is is brand you right now right and other words the system is constantly updating the more data you get the more accurate it is and so and so um like how long has the whole body intelligence uh element been there how long has that been two years about two years two years and and then um your how you know are how often
[00:39:03] is is are the algorithms being updated how how um you know uh what do you say to somebody who was like well I tried a couple years ago um you know why should they try it again now for for two reasons Peter number one thing is remember we start with the N of millions to apply that to your biology based on the ecosystem what we know that based on other patterns what should work for you and then we go n of one you see what’s working and what’s not working keep fine-tuning it for you so the point is even if it did not work for you two years ago remember first of all we now have 10x more data points so it may work and secondly by constantly allowing us to F tune we are able to make it work just for you so we say oh you know our algorithm say that your but rate should have been high and your I mean polyamine production was this and your uh production for puton was this you should
[00:40:01] have this should have worked but something about you did not work oh because we were not taking into account the LPS or the flag assembly great now we figured it out now we apply that to everyone so every s yes we con we con yeah so we’re constantly learning and we also constantly running clinical studies we are study we doing studies with external populations we’re clinically validating it we incorporating the results back into our system and we are retraining our algorithms based on the learning from the clinical study so it’s it’s happening multiple times every every year you know I’m super passionate about longevity and health span and how do you add 10 20 healthy years onto your life one of the most underappreciated elements is the quality of your sleep and there’s something that changed the quality of my sleep and this episode is brought to you by that product it’s called Eight sleep if you’re like me you probably didn’t know that temperature plays a crucial role in the quality of your sleep those mornings when you wake
[00:41:00] up feeling like you barely slept yeah temperature is off in the culprit traditional mattresses trap heat but your body needs to cool down during sleep and stay cool through the evening and then heat up in the morning enter the Pod cover by eight sleep it’s the perfect solution to the problem it fits on any bed adjust the temperature on each side of the bed based upon your individual needs you know I’ve been using pod cover and it’s a GameChanger I’m a big believer in using technology to improve life and eight sleep has done that for me and it’s not just about temperature control with the pods sleep and health tracking I get personalized sleep reports every morning it’s like having a personal sleep coach so you know when you eat or drink or go to sleep too late how it impacts your sleep so why not experience sleep like never before visit www.sleep.com that’s EIG HT moonshots and you’ll save 150 bucks on
[00:42:02] the Pod cover by eight sleep I hope you do it it’s transformed my sleep and will for you as well now back to the episode so I I one of the things I was so I’ve been so impressed by is the science the science the science the Publications um uh the work that you’ve done uh Beyond just you know proving it to yourself but going into peer reviewed journals and getting FDA approval can you talk a little bit about the the areas that you’ve been um been publishing in and the work that you’re you’ve achieved and where you’re going after FDA approvals let me let me take that so the the very first Foundation was in the glycemic response area Peter and so you know all of the sugar response stuff starting with um just for foods and for supplements but also for you know diabetic and pre-diabetic situations right and then we went into a number of microbiome Pathways so we looked at you know the oxalate the berate and the you know putene Pathways
[00:43:02] and so on so we have a bunch of science around that then we went into diagnostic biomarker so we talked about the cancer biomarker but we also have other biomarkers for IBD we have it for uh every disease in the spectrum of the mouth like dysplasias uh you know periodontitis and so on for the gut we have IBS we have you know the precursors of uh chical Cancer all of all of the full spectrum of all the things that happens in the gut and now we’re getting into metabolic disease we getting into non-alcoholic fatty liver disease we’re getting into autoimmune type diseases like rheumatoid arthritis and so so on so we have these biomarkers and we have one by one we are publishing those and then finally we are doing this big systems biology view of biological aging right knowing everything we know about you top to bottom in this Dynamic biology digital twin of your yours we can ask the question what is the the the
[00:44:00] correct way of thinking about this biological human being which is what is the age of this person and you know we’ve developed these models we’ve just published that in I science and U you know we’ll continue to do this across the board navine what’s the where are you going next with viome what is the next element of your of your moonshot here or is it cancer detection throughout the GI track is it uh age reversal is it uh handling of all chronic diseases can you give me a sense of what you think is possible as you gather this data so first of all Peter and you know to us a consumer business is first of all is our way of getting to a person who has suffered so much from our current medical industrial complex because our you know again it’s I’m not saying that our people in the medical industrial complex are bad people but the in incentives are not aligned with the it is you know I think my my mission
[00:45:02] has been I want to crush and reinvent Healthcare and education both systems have misaligned incen absolutely and I think Peter one of the thing is that imagine no others uh no other industry benefits from keep making you suffer right so in medical industrial complex they only make money when you and I are sick so your doctor makes money when you and I are sick the in hospital makes money when you a pharmaceutical company and no one makes money when we are healthy right and the person who really wants to be healthy is the person who suffering so our thinking was why not go to the consumer and this is by the way Clinton Christian said the same thing you do not want to go head on with the system you want to go around the system to the people so we did the d2c to show people that they have they can actually become the CEO of their own health and empowering them and they go to the doctor and say Hey doctor can you explain to me this why aren’t you doing something about this so really creating
[00:46:00] that consumer push ask your doctor right so then doctor calls us and say what the hell is going on how do I can how can I be part of this right so our goal really is to do and then using food as a medicine both nutritional and otherwise and continuing to personalize the product for you so we did the thing for gut we did the thing now for oral microbiome so your oral law and is personalized toothpaste is skin microbiome we are able to personalize you know skin cream for each individual scalp microbiome we can personalize a shampoo and conditioner for each individual so really looking at personalization is one but our ultimate goal really is find hard to detect diseases in the early stages while they are still extremely curable and so we really looking after the diseases that really have not been detected early right so the things that we went after oral cancer and throat cancer was because these are detected in stage three stage four and I say to say that a lot of these pan cancer test that out
[00:47:02] there and it’s a great first step but the problem is when you’re looking for cellfree DNA like whether it is freenome or whether you’re looking The Grail in stage one they are just not enough cell-free DNA in stage one so they get really really good in stage three stage four but even for Grail the stage one sensitivity is by the way stage one sensitivity is 24.1% on average that tells you something that when you get the negative result doesn’t really mean much right and that’s a fundamental problem we set out to solve because your RNA changes even before you develop a cancer you can see in displasia you can or lopia something is changing in RNA that is going to become a stage one cancer right so our goal is to look at cancer is obviously detecting them early and Peter I hate to say that this was driven I lost my own dad to pancreatic cancer and today brutal disease and it’s not detected in early stage and we are absolutely
[00:48:01] committed to solving this problem for everyone else Nash nafer is never detected in early stage right Alzheimer is rarely detected in early stage can we develop a early stage molecular biomarkers not someone’s feeling but early stage molecular biome and that’s really where we going and then using both the food inter ition or working with our partners in the pharmaceutical companies to develop a vaccine or a drug to actually solve and cure the disease not maintain or simply maintain the suppress the symptom and maintain the disease I am curious um you’re a strict uh are you vegan or vegetarian uh mostly vegan I would say mostly vegan and there’s a debate constantly about you know whether I should be on a keto diet or a vegetarian or a vegan diet and so forth if anybody’s got enough data to talk about the impacts of uh of one
[00:49:02] extreme or the other it would be viome so what are you what are you seeing first of all Peter what we see is not what you want to hear what we I I’m not sure I want to hear anything tell me what extreme none of the extreme diets are good for you so in fact a keto diet ages you faster than anything else right P diet does the same thing and just because you don’t vegan diet doesn’t mean you are having healthy food almost all the poison comes from plant all the drugs come from plant the spinach may or may not be good for you so fundamentally the goal is to personalize to you just because it worked for your wife or your neighbor doesn’t mean it’s going to work for you I can’t I can’t stress that enough right it’s like these all these diet books I mean probably there’s more diet books printed than any other category of book out there and it’s it’s one to many they generalize this but there’s I mean there there are a few
[00:50:00] things that we know right whole plants are are important minimizing sugar is important but uh you know I sort of stick to a Mediterranean diet as best as I can and I think Peter it’s not just mediteran so there are some foods that are bad for everyone so processed foods are bad for everyone there is sugar that’s bad for everyone but there’s no such thing as universal healthy food there’s a universal unhealthy food but guess what some people spinach is going to cause problem if they’re not able to digest oxalate and they’re going to have a you know teric can harm them if they have high bile acid right so point is you have to now you can hyper personalize for each individual it’s not just if if you don’t mind I I I I want to also say that it’s the the same food can be bad for you one day and good for you 6 months later and so on so even for the same individual you need to know when it’s okay okay for you or good for you and it’s actually desirable for you so you want to keep you know just like
[00:51:00] you you’re exercising and you know how you can handle you know various kinds of physical stress you want to be able to test yourself and know what you can eat on any given day you know I can’t wait for Jarvis um you know I’m an Iron Man Fan and Jarvis is my favorite in vision of a of a co-pilot where it’s through the day it’s been measuring everything on my body in my body and it’s saying no no stay away from that food eat that food over there and it it brings it closes the loop uh from a quarterly uh you know testing to constant testing and we’ll get there we’ll get there so actually did you see the last movie that was his artificial womb movie there in fact they talked about wyome in that movie they literally says good morning Peter you you everything is fine we just did your gut intelligence test you are all of your food that you’re eating are good that’s great I love it I I I I I do do love that so here’s another question for you um you know one of the challenges of
[00:52:00] course of measuring uh your full GI intelligence here is that you’re measuring uh uh your stool sample uh mostly from the large intestine and not from the upper intestine or stomach and so forth so uh what do you you know is there an issue there of not being able to get the uh you know samples from the dadum and and so forth and answer toeter is if we could do everything we should but the point is we’re trying to see if you can look at the top of the tube by looking at the oral microbiome and in general um we swallow about 1 and2 liter of saliva in our uh stomach every day most of the time these things will die in the stomach because of acidity unfortunately too many of us are taking the anti- acid R like Nexium and or as you age your your hydrochloric acid level goes down and you’re not K you’re not killing your oral microbiome what what happens when that happens so Peter
[00:53:01] some of these oral microbiome end up settling in your gut where they don’t belong and for example it’s very a fusobacterium nucle atom is an oral microbiome when it settles in the gut it some of the time when it activity becomes high or when it start to express some of the toxins like fap2 fap2 or fda2 then suddenly it is starts to call cause inflammation in the gut and that is IBS IBD and coloral cancer number one cause for coloral cancer is a Fus oactive nucleator you know I just want to point out that that naven does not have a medical degree but he probably knows more about medicine than I do at this point you know I keep on saying nine you know I’ve got International Space University and Singularity University and if I could issue a medical degree I would give one to you uh but I’m just blown away by what you learned um I want to just turn the subject slightly for a moment because listening to this obviously are a lot of
[00:54:02] individuals interested in their health and their longevity but a lot of entrepreneurs looking to build successful uh b2c companies consumer facing companies what’s your advice for an entrepreneur looking to build a consumer facing company what did you learn through this process so I think Peter one of the things that a lot of entrepreneurs go wrong is they start to focus on what would generate the most amount of Revenue and I think what I realized was if you focus on what would make the person better that means making money is a byproduct of doing things that actually improve people’s life that means focus on what will improve your customer’s life every single day and if you stay focused on that rather than trying to make a quick box you can create an amazingly great company so we constantly focus on would it actually improve people’s lives would it actually improve their symptoms would they actually feel better we do more survey
[00:55:01] on our customers than anyone else are they actually getting better in fact we published them on our web page 84% of the people tell us they’re more than one of their symptoms actually got better which is to me is mindboggling is that people come to us and say this is what I came to Y for and they got better if not we want to understand what is it that we did not do right to make it better right so to me in the healthcare especially you have only one shot at making sure people trust you so in any business you can get away with lot more things in healthcare business you have to build the trust that you’re doing the right things by them right and and you’re going to still make mistakes as you said the things that we knew two years ago are different than we know today so we can only make the decision based on based on the data we have at that point as the new science is coming along we ingest per 20,000 latest research into our things right so as a new research
[00:56:00] comes out we integrate that into our algorithm no human being no doctor would ever do that our AI I like to joke and say listen there were 5,000 medical articles printed or published in journals this morning how many is your doctor read today and that’s literally the point is that so to me building get your AI assistant yes that’s right and I really think Peter what I think you and I want to acknowledge this this company would not exist but for you Peter I mean watching learning from you learning what H the human longevity actually this would have been their mission they set out to solve this problem and I’m not going to go and you know saying but this is when I became the customer and you know Anu and I paid $50,000 we were super excited about solving this problem around longevity and we realized that it wasn’t actually living up to it is potential we say you know what this problem is worth solving and we’re going to go out and solve this problem right
[00:57:00] and to me your encouragement I mean as we we have been friends for two decades now your I think you have had more influence on my life or more influenc in our children’s life than any living individual right thank you buddy Anor is doing unbelievable things thanks to you prianka is running a women’s health company thanks to you I mean an Neil I mean you took all three of them under your wings and I want to acknowledge you how much you have contributed I I think I think you in a new uh your DNA and your home and your tutelage had a lot to do with it I I was blessed to be able to Mentor your your three kids um and I and I really um uh you know one of the things I find a blessing is to share your thinking with the entrepreneurs here who are listening because um you go deep um and and one of the you’re you’re a passion driven individual uh I mean you wake up with this in the morning and
[00:58:01] it carries you through the night and you’re monomaniacal on this which is which is extraordinary which is what it takes this is literally What It Takes and if someday if I could give you one advice that would be that focus focus on one thing that you’re willing to dedicate your life to for the next 10 15 years dedicate your life to solving that one single problem that you wake up in the morning thinking about it you know go to sleep thinking about it and you jump out of the bed every morning oh I do jump out of bed I do jump out of bed what time do you get up in the morning I I was up 5 4:00 a.m. I was up at 5:30 I was I was slacking um uh in that and what time do you go to sleep pal H latest by 9 99 yeah and it well you know we’ve talked about sleep on and all of the elements of one people people don’t realize that sleep is all about getting the quality of sleep and I think if may have few minutes here I can tell you
[00:59:00] that for me the longevity so just like the hierarchy of needs I have come up with this hierarchy of needs for longevity and there are five parts to it right one is nutrition without proper nutrition nothing matter this is the base you you can have a Ferrari and you don’t put the right fuel on your Ferrari it is just not going to dry well once you get the nutrition right the second thing you have to do is reduce the stress in your body and here is what people don’t understand when you have a stress your body is into fight of flight response and then your body in the fight of flight response you all the non-essential system that body things are non- essential shut down so your digestive system shuts down your immune system shuts down and that’s the reason people who are stressed get sick more often so what we do some of us will say let’s do the prayer before we eat let’s go do the Gratitude before we eat and the reason is so your body moves away from a sympathetic mode to parasympathetic mode so you can digest
[01:00:01] your food right but point is you have to fundamentally get rid of the stress stress was only when we evolved was only when we’re being chased by a tiger and at that point body says look you don’t need to worry about digesting your food because you’re going to be lunch for someone else right and that’s the reason it does that so to me now we live in a society where there’s a constant stress at work your boss stresses you out sometime when you go home your spouse stresses you out right so we got to find a way to reduce that stress in your life the third really is exercise and I cannot emphasize I’m not talking about you and I becoming a gym rat and pumping iron but what I’m talking about is taking 60 Minutes every single day to do both fast walking and building muscles there is just no alternative you got to do some strength training and you got to do some movement whether it is walking fast for 30 minutes 45 minutes and getting a 20
[01:01:02] minutes of even a body weight muscle training but you got to do that at least four five times a day if you cannot get all seven days in a week right the fourth part is sleep and again the quantity of sleep is important but not as important as the quality of sleep so even though I sometime I get 6 hours of sleep but I have managed to get 2 hours of ram sleep and 2 hours of deep sleep and I wake up really really fresh so it’s really that is what you need to focus on is how much of ram sleep and deep sleeps can you get and what I found Peter even if I take two sips of alcohol in the evening my sleep is toasted if I eat after 600 p.m. my sleep is toasted right and so I tend to at least get 3 hours before eat no eating 3 hours before I go to sleep and these are the things and you need to figure out for yourself by measuring uh you know what
[01:02:01] is going on in your sleep so I have Peter I use eight sleep I use aing I use also have a wiing thing underneath me I want to measure my sleep every possible ways the fifth one is purpose finding the purpose in your life people who live a life of purpose tend to live 10 to 15 years longer than the people who have no purpose and finding your mtps Peter would say if you have not done that that’s the first thing because that will allow you to live longer healthier and actually push the humanity forward that will bring the joy in you that will reduce your stress and if you can’t find your P MTP Peter if I may say so there is no better place than go to abundance and join Peter’s abundance thing and come on Peter I have benefited more from that and a platinum trip taking your children not just yourself you take your spouse and take your family having those
[01:03:00] conversations at dinner so you don’t sound like an alien when you have those conversation people that you collect with so you are able to have intellectual discussion even with Neil Peter I sit down with Neil and I explain what I’m doing and he would tell me but Dad you forgot to look at this bapti that is the conversation you want to have that’s beautiful it’s a beautiful conversation I would like everyone who’s listen listening to it to take their themselves their spouse and children to abundance and platinum trip there is no better way to actually educate yourself find your purpose and do something about it thank you buddy I I I do appreciate it uh abundance 360 comes from my heart and uh it’s an amazing amazing Community it’s sort it’s the highest level for Singularity University um I’d like to talk a little bit more about the Platinum trip as well because I know I’m going to be speaking there in the next few day in couple of weeks that is another unbelievable well it’s it’s it’s not for everybody but it’s amazing uh every year I take uh
[01:04:01] uh 80 people 40 in September and 40 and October uh we go to the West Coast one year uh to the east coast the next year uh we visit the top 50 life scientist entrepreneurs CEOs who focused on extending the human lifespan this year we’re in uh Cambridge and Boston uh New Hampshire with Dean Cayman and New York uh next September and October we’ll be doing the trip in San Diego and San Francisco uh yeah and that’s the Platinum longevity trip I mean I think people anyone who can actually do that I would say highly recommend they go there with their children and spouse everybody I want to take a short break from our episode to talk about a company that’s very important to me and could actually save your life or the life of someone that you love company is called Fountain life and it’s a company I started years ago with Tony Robbins and a group of very talented Physicians you know most of us don’t actually know what’s going on inside our body we’re all optimists
[01:05:00] until that day when you have a pain in your side you go to the physician or the emergency room and they say listen I’m sorry to tell you this but you have this stage three or four going on and you know it didn’t start that morning it probably was a problem that’s been going on for some time but because we never look we don’t find out so what we built at Fountain life was the world’s most advanced diagnostic Centers we have four across the us today and we’re building 20 around the world these centers give you a full body MRI a brain a brain vasculature an AI enabled coronary CT looking for soft plaque a dexa scan a Grail blood cancer test a full executive blood workup it’s the most advanced workup you’ll ever receive 150 gbes of data that then go to our AIS and our physicians to find any disease at at the very beginning when it’s solvable you’re going to find out eventually you might as well find out when you can take
[01:06:00] action Fountain life also has an entire side of Therapeutics we look around the world for the most Advanced Therapeutics that can add 10 20 healthy years to your life and we provide them to you at our centers so if this is of interest to you please go and check it out go to Fountain life.com back/ Peter when Tony and I wrote Our New York Times best seller life force we had 30,000 people reached out to us for Fountain life memberships if you go to Fountain life.com Peter will put you to the top of the list really it’s something that is um for me one of the most important things I offer my entire family the CEOs of my companies my friends it’s a chance to really add decades onto our healthy lifespans go to fountainlife decomp it’s one of the most important things things I can offer to you as one of my listeners all right let’s go back to our episode pal and and Guru I want
[01:07:00] to dive into the future 5 to 10 years from now uh I’d like to to shift the conversation because I’m in the middle of writing my next book um scaling abundance it’s the followon from my first book abundance uh 10 years ago what a great book Peter what a great book thank you I loved it and it’s the the story’s gotten so much stronger and I’m in the right now of writing the chapter about AI human collaboration in different areas and in particular medicine and I mean chat GPT passing the US medical licensing exam last February was like amazing and it’s gotten even more amazing but I’d like to dive five to 10 years from now let’s talk a little bit about what you imagine is going to be possible um what is medicine and healthc care going to look like um you know it’s nonlinear it’s not just doing more of what we got right now there’s
[01:08:00] going to be some reinventions uh Guru do you want to take a second what’s a a vision are we going to have doctors are you know is your I’m guessing your AI is going to be your diagnostician Aid driven robotics will become your surgeon uh we’re going to be constantly updating you on you know Peter you’ve got 30 minutes in your schedule you know drop and give me 50 push-ups or stay away from that you know that apple pie in front of you um give me some concrete examples of what you see coming and possibly when yeah you know what uh my dream is that we are going to have an angel on our shoulder who is always sort of whispering in your ear and saying what is the right thing to do at every point in time where you have to make a decision you know what you want to eat where you know how much you want to walk or not walk you how much you know how you’re sleeping Etc all of those five things that the is talking about you
[01:09:01] know don’t get stressed you know because of that conversation do this you know in order to distress right so imagine a an angel on your shoulder or you know since we have so much integration you know somebody speaking through your headphones or maybe you know neural a neural chip yeah a neural chip or or or some kind of actually I I want to go a step further here I really think it will change your brain Peter so you won’t even want it I mean the fundamental thing is what we are learning that even I mean what surprised me pet I don’t know if you saw the latest research that came out on gp1 it is actually reducing the people’s desire to drink alcohol the addiction right so think about it they’re able to fundamentally change the addiction so what if that thing is constantly not only reminding you but changing your brain to say I don’t want sugar it makes me sick
[01:10:02] I’m not going to eat this because it’s making me sick and every part everything around you is going to be collecting data your mirror is going to be collecting data your toilet your tiles you wake up it knows what time you woke up it analyzing your sweat it knowing exactly the way you are walking you said Peter looks to me you’re not feeling well the way you speak your voice being analyzed everywhere literally all these data is being collected it will automatically order the food for you in your refrigerator based on what is good for you let let me just make sure that again we don’t get stuck with um the external factors right I want to go deep into the biology right I think we need to be measuring what’s going on in the biological processes within our body which means that we are going to have a variety of you know think of it as Nanobots if you will right we already today have you know crisper based machines that are doing making changes within your body but I mean maybe not 10 years maybe in 20 years I definitely think that we will be able to have
[01:11:01] molecular machines that will be actually on this upcoming Platinum trip um we’re going to see out of the media lab uh an amazing entrepreneur has built these um these their subcellular machines they smaller than a red blood cell uh that can go and implant themselves along the arterial system of the brain um and can polarize and depolarize can go to different tissues um and so they’re here uh they’re just not evenly distributed yet I I agreed agreed and and you know today in viome we are just measuring the you know let’s call them the non-invasive samples but you know in in some way if we can demonstrate the safety of these molecular machines I think we can get the deepest possible insight into the biology internally and of course all the external factors that that we all know we can gather data and that’s the only way that you can get the systems biology picture of the world
[01:12:00] right and and one last thing I want to also mention is um Peter one of your recent emails talked about experimentation I just want to you know shout out that the reason experimentation is so important is because we need to get to the causality right AI has for very very long including the latest generation generative Ai and so on right they’re mostly statistic machines which are looking at correlation but we need to get past that we need to get to causation the only way we can do that is by experiment experimenting with Biology and with experimenting with behavior and so on so forth so the the next generation of AI has to focus on causality that’s really the transformation that has to happen within within the field so to speak Well Guru since we’re there uh what’s your opinion about when we will reach or exceed human level AI um you know I’m taking a poll these days on all the AI experts I’m speaking to uh do you have a uh do you have an opinion
[01:13:00] on that I definitely do and uh you know I I give this talk about you know called the you know 100 Years of vicissitude which is I traced the path from 1950 to 2050 and I I I decided to start in 1950 because that was when uh touring first put out the touring touring um test right and I I picked 2050 because I think think there is a 50% chance of getting to human level AI by 2050 uh that’s my that’s my current current position okay so an he’s an expert I think he’s he’s too he’s too pessimistic ant an expert someone who can tell you exactly how something can’t be done uh navine are you in the in the ray kwell Camp of 2029 or the Elon Camp of 2027 yeah so I think honestly it is I think it may be too soon there but by 2035 I really believe we get there so in the next 10 to 12 years we really really get to the human level Ai and maybe in 2045
[01:14:00] we get to the you know much so what happens to uh you so right now I did I did this uh I looked at this the other day I said how many years does it take to become a specialist it’s about about 16 years become a medical specialist between College medical school uh internship residency fellowship and it can cost you you know anywhere between a half a million to milon Dollar in educational fees it’s a lot um uh what’s going to happen to medical professionals and nurses and healthc Care coaches uh a decade from now when we’ve got uh human level Ai and it’s a better is it a better doctor than your doctor what do you think the answer is from a technically there’s no doubt in my mind because no humans has a processing power to address you know to read 52 quadrillion biological data point they just can’t they can’t read 5,000 research papers every day and AI can’t so so technically it is going to be there the question you
[01:15:00] still have to ask yourself is in terms of human evolution it’s can technology be there yes but would humans evolve to actually trust that and be able to have a same feeling of trust and empathy that they would have from other human being so I think the evolution of humanity which is our wet body I don’t think is going to keep up with the technology and the nurses and the doctors and the health coaches are going to become that person who are going to be able to give you that Comfort touch you on your you know back and say Peter you’re going to be okay I have the right plan for you but are we going to invest a million dollars uh and 15 years to be coached by a AI health coaches they become primar health coaches driven by AI so they’re going to take the AI and they’re going to act actually become the 3D hologram that our biological body trust right so in some sense we need another person
[01:16:01] because we as humans are not going to evolve fast enough to trust something that we can’t see or know and not look into their eyes in the same way that we do in person’s eyes so I think it’s really a question of biological evolution rather than technological Evolution if you know what I mean so I think it’s societal Evolution uh and psychological Evolution right um I mean there is a point at which you know I joke about this that in the you know if you need a surgeon today there’s one question you ask when you’re interviewing surgeons you know what it is nine don’t you uh how many time how many times did you do the surgery this morning so the frequency with which a surgeon has done a particular kind of surgery an appendectomy a mital heart devel is is how because they’ve seen so many different variations of that but there will be a point in the future where AI driven robots are doing those surgeries and of course if there’s a if there’s a million robots out there doing surgeries if one robot sees a particular
[01:17:02] case that has all the robots learn from it and so there will be a point when if you need a surgery and you’re in the hospital and you see that human surgeon walking towards you you’re going to go oh no no no I do not want that s that human touching me I want the robot that’s done it a million times this morning right and by but but you may want that person to walk in and say hey that robot is updated as of the last nanc with all the latest information right that may be something you may want to hear sure sure so I I do believe that medicine is going to become massively transformed I also think just like Google for the poorest child and the wealthiest child on the planet is identical it’s not a little bit better for Larry Page’s kids right it’s the same um and I do think we have the ability to massively demonetize and democratize health healthare where health care for the poorest child and the wealthiest child is the same do you agree with that I think it’s going to I mean once it moves into preventative
[01:18:01] right then you know Health Care as you know as we think of it today is just is just not going to exist in in in most ways you know we want people to be in the you know you you’d not be going to the surgeon’s uh operating room you know as often as we we would go today right go lesser and lesser the point of going to Z if you do because people do stupid things and I think we as humans will continue to do stupid things like driving our own cars and get or getting hit ourselves get lesser and lesser right the the the point is that uh you know you want to keep people in the wellness Sphere not you know never never you know get them into the sickness sphere yeah I I’m I’m just trying to understand uh you know do you do you tell your kids who are in high school right now to go become a doctor right go become a no no so computer I have told all of our kids as you know that I believe even the safest thing used to be computer programming and as you know now that
[01:19:00] that’s that is going to be gone computer science Al it’s totally toasted right so to me the best thing you can do is to be an entrepreneur who takes the latest technology and finds what can you do to make human life better with this technology so everyone of the humans is actually going to become an entrepreneur and that is going to be the safest skill that is applying the technology to a specific problem and they’re going to be horizontal players and there going to be a deep vertical players who are going to just constantly slice and dice it in different ways well I I would I would you know uh respectfully argue that uh entrepreneurs by themselves are not going to be enough and I would I would say that you need the scientist and technologists who are developing you know new I mean asking the kinds of questions about whether the World whether it’s biology or the the universe right there are too many questions that I don’t believe that AI would be asking
[01:20:01] all the right questions all the time it would be based on the kinds of questions that human ask that goes deeper and deeper as well as broader and broader so I think you need the two types of people and the broad entrepreneurs are taking the innovations that come from the deep thinkers and putting them together to solve problems well you know I Define a a entrepreneur is a person who finds a juicy problem and solves it uh and so the more entrepreneurs the more problems get solved the better the world gets and we do need scientists you know uh elon’s x. when he’s looking at building aligned AI with Humanity his number one uh sort of metric for alignment is curiosity creating AIS that are super curious and I and I love that I love that description so Peter there three types of people in the world people who find problems they are human beings people who solve the problem they are the scientists and the inventors and people who solve the problem are entrepreneurs
[01:21:00] so to me that’s how I Define the world yeah that’s uh that’s good let me bring it back full circle uh to uh to viome um you know the the reality is the more we are understanding the human body the more we’re realizing how massively complex it is um and and I I think I have gotten such an extraordinary respect for the microbiome uh oral nasal uh you know your whole GI uh system here it is an interplay uh that most people don’t realize I mean there have been a lot of papers out recently that say oh uh you know if you Google uh you know Alzheimer’s a microbiome Parkinson’s a microbiome depression a microbiome you’re getting incredible uh published science in these areas y yeah was there anything that shocked you it you know pet s years ago
[01:22:04] people were thinking we were crazy thinking talking about microbiome not only every day there are 10 to 20 research papers showing every single disease from addiction pick a name you want cancer and microbiome cancer therapy and microbiome is literally paper now lady Gaga is talking about gut microbiome that’s where you know you have actually singing Lady Gaga is singing about the gut microbiome oh my God that’s that’s like that just tilted me all right so um uh I am curious one of the things that that I am working on right now and I I do need to do my whole body intelligence test again so uh I need to literally order it right now CU I am you know working on trying to get my my gut back in order with the appropriate prebiotics what’s that after the
[01:23:00] antibiotics you took yeah after the antibiotics I took right uh to get and it’s prebiotics and probiotics and so forth so um so you know if someone feels like they’re they have some disbiosis if there’s like their gut isn’t what it should be um because you’ve got all kinds of things like leaky gut you’ve got your food allergies that develop as a result of that you’ve got the wrong kind of Flora in the wrong part of your it’s like it’s it’s not just taking xlx anymore right it’s like it’s a complicated field um one of the thing is people are doing these things are hurting themselves I mean did you see the research P this really shocked me there is a shortage of laxatives in the market you cannot buy laxatives in drug stores anymore why you know why the three reasons P why it’s happening which is mindboggling to me that why people are doing it number one is obviously people are eating really processed foods
[01:24:00] and all the shitty food that causing constipation number two is people are taking these drugs like OIC and Monaro and the way they work is obviously they slow down the food GI track to make you feel full right so that causes constipation and people are using the Lexi is now like another food disorder instead of throwing up from the front door they’re throwing up from the back door so literally they eating the shitty food and taking lexius right but the point I’m make coming back to what you’re saying is that we have don’t wait until you see the symptom to see if your gut microbiome is okay because by the time you see the symptom this has been around for 10 years so by the time you develop diabetes you have had diabetes in high insulin for the last 10 15 years by the time you see the first symptom of Parkinson has been in your gut for 15 years I I I do think if if you’re listening and you haven’t tested uh your your microbiome if you haven’t gone through
[01:25:00] to look at what’s going on there um there definitively is good and bad uh gut Flora uh 100% And there might you might find things that are really problematic that have a high correlation with cancer or various neurological cardiovascular diseases right I mean one of the things is your mouth Flora can get very quickly to your brain um it’s like right there it does it’s a night so two problem they are just like a leaky gut if you have leaky gums guess what happens identical your oral microbiome is going into your blood and you know a lot of people so only one thing Peter I want to correct you it is not a good microbiome or a bad microbiome it is a good behavior or a bad behavior so same organism like Pinger virus 88% of us have a pinger virus in our mouth only about 15% of the people when it starts to produce Ginger pain is when it becomes virent and toxic
[01:26:01] right so you you want to look at is it actually commensal or is it become pathogenic right and by looking at RNA we can say this penja virus is totally fine leave it alone or it has turned toxic we need to do something about it and same thing in the gut so it’s really the behavior as Gandhi says punish the sin not the sin there right yeah I I I love that so um the once you get your results um let’s talk about what how you’re empowered what levers you can move uh to try and bring things back and how long does it take uh to really move the needle on on getting your gut Flora your oral Flora back so we have seen pet it takes 4 to six months to get your basically back into the order again depends on where you start if your starting point is really really bad it
[01:27:01] may take you a year but generally four to 6 months is a good place actually our latest study shows that you know even at 3 months Beyond 3 months you start seeing an impact uh in the effect not less than 3 months but more than 3 months yes and typically you’re in when if you’re on the viome plan right now you’re testing every quarter every four we recommend every four to 6 months if if you can afford every 3 months that’s what we should do if you can’t at least do every four to six year okay got it um and so you get the results back and what are the levers you can move we said number one food right you can stop eating this and start eating that that’s right and but even the quantity so we can say hey eat eat more of this less of this or don’t eat this at all right and the second liver is really about nutrients because they go hand in hand when you have a uh a serious issue with your gut lining you cannot just simply say it’s going to take too long let’s need to put the Band-Aid first before we can stop the
[01:28:00] bleeding right so we say here’s a but rate you need here is you know actual nutrients you need to at least get your body into the place so getting the right supplements which are personalized to you getting the right probiotics and prebiotics one of the bad thing people do per is right after antibiotics they take probiotics and take lot of probiotics and that is actually even despite what experts tell you that’s a bad advice and here’s why so because when you have taken antibiotics you basically wiped out most of your microbiome and when you take probiotics you’re basically taking four five six strains and they literally take over your gut and nothing else will settle down because now they have too much of that and now they become any point of time when there’s too many of them they start to basically there’s no more diversity that can be done so the best thing to do after antibiotics to eat very different types of fermented food take kombucha take pickles take uh you know cchi take cfer take yogurt take as
[01:29:00] many different types of fermented food to build the diversity of that and then start taking probiotics and prebiotics to make sure that you continue to build the diversity or else you lose the complete diversity there yeah and and and another thing I would add here is that um we have built this sort of a virtuous cycle so to speak so like experimentation cycle that in fact accelerates this process as more people do longitudinal analysis we can see what is working and adjust all of these things better and better to individual biology and we are we are constantly doing that both with external clinical studies as well as our own internal studies that are that are improving these randomized you know Clinic controlled uh trials so gur you want to talk about the latest stud we just published on depression on how that you know people who had high depression 74% of of the people their high pH q9 came down to low or no depression compared to the control for 14.9% Peter think about
[01:30:00] that no drug would ever do that what we did was simply with food and supplements amazing uh let’s talk about let’s talk about timeline one second so uh if you go to vom.com you order a kit um uh you get it a couple of days later I assume um uh when you and you’re going to uh provide a uh you’re going to spit into a tube you’re going to do a finger blood prick um you collect a little bit of blood um and and stool and you send that in how long does it take to process that information 10 days so 10 days later you get in your app a complete insights into the thing and each person Peter we analyze not 20 biomarkers like from your blood test you’ll get the lipids and this we are analyzing 20 million biomarkers to tell you what is happening in your body right 20 million that’s amazing yeah that’s it’s crazy all right all right um and then you get to get
[01:31:00] your probiotics prebiotics for your gut which looks just like this uh and then you get your supplements and then you get you oral lenes and very soon you’ll be able to get you personalized toothpaste or oral lenes are what what’s in there so they are basically are probiotics Prebiotic postbiotics and uh all of the uh I I need that I I am I need to I need to get a hold of that and I and I will um where do naine uh you’re on uh on Twitter on Instagram uh what are your handles go to Instagram and Linkedin find me on Instagram find me on the LinkedIn I don’t know what Twitter is uh but X okay I’m X now all right is it just y or Z naven Jane uh you can find me at naven Jan CEO on Instagram St or LinkedIn or um you know and for viome uh uh just vi.com here’s the deal guys uh
[01:32:00] at the end of the day uh do you really know what’s going on inside your body and and my guess is that uh you don’t um uh and you can uh and if you can why would you not want to why would you not want to know if you should be choosing Peppers or broccoli you may think you’re eating healthy and you’re not uh at the end of the day as well uh you know understanding what’s going on inside your body we are a massive you know 40 trillion human cells and on the order of 100 trillion microorganisms it’s a dance um that we’re just now just now able to understand using Ai and massive data uh so my recommendation is listen uh if you’re if you’re a great shape if you feel great if you’ve done something else fantastic if you’re curious uh check it out uh one of the things that I’m uh so
[01:33:00] pumped about naven and Guru is uh the Science and Tech you’re bringing to the table um at lightning speed uh thank you for all of your hard work so so grateful so so grateful Peter I’m so thankful to you and grateful to you for continuing to guide us more importantly Contin to guide the humanity your education your purpose brings uh joy to my life that you do this out of sincerity to help millions of people live a better life your podcast I mean it brings people together gives them information they w’t get anywhere so all I can say Peter please keep doing what you’re doing you’re making a real impact on people’s lives thank you buddy thank you so much yes Peter we got I got to tell you that uh you’ve changed my life as well a lot of lot of your articles blogs everything else you do has just made a tremendous difference in my life and in my family’s um uh overall trajectory I would say so it’s it’s been tremendous thank you gentlemen a a real pleasure exciting to
[01:34:00] have you uh we’ll come back together in a year and see what the data is telling us and naine um uh I’ll give you a call once I get my my gut intelligence my full body intelligence back and uh I happen to know the CEO so I’m going to get a quick detailed rundown with you Dr Jane pleasure love to your family Take Care thank you byebye bye [Music] everybody