unfortunately the world of work now has painted itself into the following corner is it work from home or is it return to office and we’re seeing examples of both of those out there Amazon announcing of course hey you’re not in the office Jan one you’re out other companies saying no we’re completely all remote we think actually there’s a new way a third way what’s going to happen with jobs here I believe that AI will produce literally millions of new jobs to people who want to quote unquote play the AI space what how do I invest in the AI space what company do I invest in the bigger way to play AI is to look at the biggest sectors of our economy who are going to be the winners and losers hey everybody Peter D mandis here and welcome to moonshots on this episode we’re going to be diving into an important conversation that every entrepreneur every exponential entrepreneur needs to be having right now which is if you are running an organization or if you’re joining an organization or if you’re starting an
[00:01:00] organization do you build it around a physical office do you return to the office do you allow your employees to work from home or is there a different way I’m going to be joined by Jack hit CEO of sandbox AQ an extraordinary entrepreneur out of Google his chairman is Eric Schmidt they you know broke out of Google with $500 million of startup capital and they’re changing the World sandbox AQ a stands for AI Q stands for quantum and they’re transforming a whole slew of different uh different areas with Incredible success part of the success Jack hit States is because of their work model their agility so we’re going to be doing an interview to understand how does sandbox AQ do their work it’s the how versus the what um again if you’re an entrepreneur this is an episode that you’re going to want to think through to decide how you’re building your company or how you manage your company going forward we just saw
[00:02:00] Amazon with a return to the office requirement is that the right way to go other companies may be following is this right for you all right let’s jump into this episode and if you enjoy conversations like this please subscribe it helps me know that I can serve you which is my goal all right on to the podcast before we get started I want to share with you the fact that there are incredible breakthroughs coming on the health span and Longevity front these Technologies are enabling us to extend how long we live how long we’re healthy the truth is a lot of the approaches are in fact cheap or even free and I want to share this with you I just wrote a book called Longevity guide book that outlines what I’ve been doing to reverse my biological age what I’ve been doing to increase my health my strength my energy and I want to make this available to my community at cost so longevity guidebook.com you can get information or check out the link below all right let’s jump into this episode hi everybody Welcome to moonshots today we have a
[00:03:00] really fun conversation something that’s can impact all moonshot entrepreneurs all exponential entrepreneurs which is what should you be doing should you be going back to the workplace should be working virtually what is the new way of work I’m joined with one of the most extraordinary exponential entrepreneurs Jack hit a dear friend uh he’s been on this podcast a number of times he’s the founder of sandbox AQ happens to have an incredible chairman of Eric Schmidt uh who’s been on this podcast as well uh they’ve from zero to Infinity faster than most any company I know uh he is also joined by Nadia herin who’s the general manager of AI simulation at sandbox as I’ve said before we’re going to see the emergence of threers billion doll startups uh faster than ever these are exponential organizations that are being driven by the convergence of computation AI robotics 3D printing all of these Technologies and the question is is how should these companies be
[00:04:02] materializing um you get an office these days do you find office space do you going to an incubator are you starting a virtualized company we’re going to be diving into all of these things we’ve talked about in the past what sandbox AQ does now we’re going to talk about how they do this magic jack Nadia welcome Peter great to see you my friend Nadia great to have you with us uh Peter I think this is a really exciting moment as you just pointed out a lot of breakthroughs coming out of our company and other companies and people often just focus on what is that next breakthrough what’s the next Frontier that we’re going to explore with AI uh both on the language model side and on the quantitative model side we’ll get into that a little bit today but what’s not focused on enough Peter as you pointed out is how we do what we do and at sandbox AQ we really put a big focus on Paving a new pathway in that as well how we actually organ ourselves how do
[00:05:01] we get this collaboration done how do you get a lot of creative minds from so many different disciplines Peter physics and Ai and chemistry and biology and pharmacology and Mathematics and cyber I mean all these things how do you actually get creatives to work together in a way that produces on a systematic basis breakthrough after breakthrough after breakthrough and you’ve just published an extraordinary list of breakthroughs I hope we’ll get to that as well but I I do agree that how is so important because we have a lot of moonshot entrepreneurs watching this who are di diving deep into AI uh and utilizing it they’ve got huge world changing dreams but question is do you go back to the old model of how it was done you know preo 10203 years ago it’s got to be different now absolutely Peter and I think very often as humans we know this this is one of the uh condiment in twersky 25 the biases that conom had won the Nobel Prize for cognitive biases in our head that we fall into the bias of
[00:06:01] anchoring and other kinds of biases one of those biases is the false binary Choice people often get paint themselves into a corner Peter as you will know that oh it’s either this one or that one and unfortunately the world of work now has painted itself into the following corner is it work from home or is it return to office and we’re seeing examples of both of those out there Amazon announcing of course hey you’re not in the office Jan one you’re out other companies saying no we completely all remote we think actually there’s a new way a third way and I’d love to hear about that but I’ll tell you one of the things I’ve heard from two different CEOs is thank you Amazon for forcing people to come back to work because I get to steal all those amazing employees who don’t want to go back to the office um that’s we’re actually seeing that already Peter we’re seeing that we’re seeing actually we literally just hired somebody from Amazon who did not want to go back to work uh and so we did not uh
[00:07:00] you know seek out to to to get that person but that person became available once uh that return to work a return to office policy kicked in and they themselves put themselves on the on the job market so we’re seeing the impact of that and I think this false choice of either returned to office and everyone’s in the old uh way of doing things or remote first I want to say that even before Co we were already on this track of doing things a different way this was not just because of technology enables it all technology enables but also we have to think about the person themselves you know we call it 3 C’s we think about collaboration Peter and collaboration is about all the different disciplines I’ll ask naga in a minute to to elaborate on that different disciplines we bring together we talk about customer you know what it means when you don’t have to be in an office it means you can actually embed yourself with the customers recently a five person team from our company embedded itself for 2 weeks at one of our
[00:08:01] customers inside their offices you know what it means to a customer for a team to go and take the time and and live essentially with them with another one of our partners we’re actually going to permanently embed about 10 of our employees in their various offices around the world permanently that’s going to be their place of work is going to be the partners offices not one of our hubs or locations and then of course you have Community our mantra Peter here is work where you thrive that is don’t uproot somebody and have to bring them over to Mountain View to eat burritos every day when they were in a great City uh in uh their country or their city where they have their support structure they have their in-laws to take care of the kids they have the university that they know that where they cultivate new talent to bring into our company where they have their community and they can engage with that community and uh bring in new ideas and customers from that community that that’s what work where
[00:09:00] you thrive so uh maybe I if it appears okay I could turn it over to Naja I would love that to talk about collaboration first n Gad hello good morning n maybe you want to introduce yourself a bit more talk about your background as a bench scientist sure thing sure thing thank you so much Peter it’s a pleasure to be here with you and Jack this morning uh I’m Nadia Heron I’m the general manager of the AI simulation group here at sandbox and funny enough when Jack spun this company out of Google uh what he called me up and I had just had a baby and I just bought a house and he said hey we’re doing this cool new thing do you want to come join us and I’m like Jack I’m not moving and you know and one of the things he told me was that don’t worry that this company is completely remote uh we are going to work together to do amazing things in a collaborative fashion and uh you know you are not going to have to move like you did when you went to go work at Google and that was music to my
[00:10:02] ears I remember you living now I live in New Jersey I live in New Jersey right outside of New York City yeah so it was like give up this amazing opportunity or have to relocate the entire family 3,000 miles to the West that’s right and I had done that before like many folks do to take these amazing tech jobs and you have to find new doctors you have to find new schools you you know you you uproot your whole family your part partner doesn’t have a sense of community and so your your support structure which I think we all realized during covid was very very necessary is completely missing so that that is a big part of thriving I mean here we have access to our Network our people you know friends family Etc um the whole family is happy and so I think Community yeah please yeah do you mind if I ask you what does a general manager of AI simulation do at sandbox AQ because that’s a it’s a pretty wicked
[00:11:01] title it’s a it’s a it’s a job that did not exist 5 years ago in the world yeah go ahead yeah yeah so uh I work on leading an extraordinary team that is globally based to create new drugs new types of molecules impact the biopharma industry and also the material science chemistry industry it’s primarily um so as you might imagine we have folks from all different disciplines that need to collaborate to do this amazing work and we work across many many different time zones in order to do that and it is truly being able to hire the talent where they are in the corners of the planet is is really uh key to what has helped us be successful and putting these people in a virtual room together to collaborate and get the job done did you see the movie Oppenheimer if you did did you know that besides building the atomic bomb at Los Alamos National Labs
[00:12:00] that they spent billions on biod defense weapons the ability to accurately detect viruses and microbes by reading their RNA well a company called viome exclusively licensed the technology from Los Alamos labs to build a platform that can measure your microbiome and the RNA in your blood now viome has a product that I’ve personally used for years called full body intelligence which collects a few drops of your blood spit and stool and can tell you so much about your health they’ve tested over 700,000 individuals and used their AI models to deliver members critical Health guidance like what foods you should eat what foods you shouldn’t eat as well as your supplements and probiotics your biological age and other deep Health insights and the results of the recommendations are nothing short of Stellar you know as reported in the American Journal of Lifestyle medicine after just 6 months of following biomes recommendations members reported the following a 36% reduction in depression a 40% reduction in anxiety a 30%
[00:13:03] reduction in diabetes and a 48% reduction in IBS listen I’ve been using viome for 3 years I know that my oral and gut health is one of my highest priorities best of all viome is Affordable which is part of my mission to democratize health if you want to join me on this journey go to vi.com Peter I’ve asked navine Jane a friend of mine who’s the founder and CEO of viome to give my listeners a special discount you’ll find it at vom.com Peter amazing you jack you said something a few minutes ago there’s a false dichotomy here between return to work or work from home each has its problems um and I just want to you know for the entrepreneur who’s who is thinking about which route they go can we just dive into that one second for each of those and then talk a little bit more about your third option here yeah so let me just be very provocative and explicit return to office as a total
[00:14:02] policy fail work from home as a singular policy fail um just to make it super clear I hope I’m not being too subtle Peter and you never happened buddy never happened uh and and I I’ll kick off and I I’ll ask n also talk about some of the ways that we collaborate for example you know bringing people together in collaborative um Gatherings and things like that what we realize is yeah there’s problems with going with either of those as your singular uh focus and policy what you want to do is you want to be outcome based rather than be time based people get obsessed about uh are we going to have this number of hours in the work day how about this how many vacation days do I have do I need to be in the office this day that day and Tuesdays and Thursdays at 3:00 on a leap year I mean this is ridiculous let’s be outcome based one of the reasons why I think we’ve had breakthrough after breakthrough after breakthrough uh recently the team Nadia can talk more about it had a breakthrough with past
[00:15:00] the forever chemicals people may know that the call Forever chemicals for a bad reason because they don’t leave our bodies they don’t leave uh the environment and uh I I’ll last n you in a minute to talk about that breakthrough but how do we get these breakthroughs from multiple disciplines coming together what it means is you have to think about uh the the collaboration part then you got to think about the customer part who’s your partner who’s your customer don’t just once in a while have a zoom call with them go visit them we have a we have a sizable travel budget Peter because we have to go visit these folks in person now that we can postco visit people Now’s the Time to go and do that uh yes we use some Zoom of course but we like to go physically see the customers see the partners work with them understand what their issues are how they’re working together you’re effectively trading real estate uh expenses for air that’s correct so net net we’re actually saving millions of dollar Peter our CFO did the
[00:16:01] numbers he’s the numbers guy 30 plus years at Price wordhouse Coopers this guy knows numbers uh and he was a auditor of a public public companies before that this guy is really really solid and what David said is that we’re saving money look at the numbers by not having all these permanent offices all over the place we’re actually saving millions of dollars and we’re taking a portion of that uh and we’re spending it on the collaboration gather Gatherings the offsites visiting customers but net net even with all that we’re saving millions of dollars a year so this is a great way to boost your company’s productivity and output and it’s also a way to save money but Peter the most important thing the theme is outcome based and treat people like adults and so for example you know we have uh in the US unlimited vacation policy we’re not here to say oh teacher can I please take a vacation day can I take you know
[00:17:00] Thursday 3 p.m. off I have a doctor’s appointment treat people like adults people know what to do and if you’re outcome based if you use the okr system that we learned so well from Google let’s remember John Do’s book right on okrs let’s remember the early days of Larry and Sergey and Eric thinking about the okr system uh that is a powerful system to communicate what to communicate we’re outcome based we’re looking for that breakthrough how you get there that’s you for you to shape you as a team for you to shape we give budgets to teams like najja Naga is empowered to decide what to do with that na maybe you want to jump in and talk about why do we meet in person here and there in different cities often with universities in mind who are in that City yeah yeah you know we’re we’re outcome based and what that means is that we have very ambitious goals we’re trying to revolutionize drug Discovery we’re creating chemicals and matter that hasn’t ever existed and how do you get a group of people
[00:18:01] that are you know located all across the planet on that singular mind share and that is really the purpose of an offsite is to have this purposeful mind share around strategy around goals around Sprint cycles and I will tell you that you know there is research that shows that you you have to bring people out of their comfort zone take them out of their environment their their kind of regular office space to boost that creativity to enhance that problem solving and we come out of these offsites and we tend to do them in locations that are inspiring we go to the mountains we go to the Sea uh we go to universities where there is a lot of Mind share and inspiration and things to draw upon and when we leave these offsites people are so impassioned so excited you can see that there’s all this momentum everyone is rowing in the same direction and it really carries us through to the next offsite and so you end up having a few of these over the
[00:19:01] course of a year and you don’t need an office an office is very casual you know people come home from the office they’re they’re tired you know people leave offsites they’re excited uh so it’s very different yeah I just want to ask you a quick question why do you think Amazon is is literally forcing people to come back to work what what’s their thesis there what do they believe yeah not to comment on Amazon specifically but in general I think why we’re seeing a lot of large companies go with RTO is that number one they have a a sunk investment right in other words they have some sunk costs in huge infrastructure sure often they own these buildings or have very long-term leases to these massive buildings all around the world and certainly in their headquarter locations and that is an asset that needs to be used or something’s going to happen to it it’s not a great time right now to try to sell these things because of course many other companies are not using these kinds of platforms and so you know one one uh reason I think we’re
[00:20:01] seeing it is people want to leverage the investment they’ve made prior to co and then during Co you know things continued number two I would say is there’s a lot of traditional thinking really just to be honest with you around you know people need to be in one space and I understand people say hey there’s a spontaneity when you’re physically in the same place we agree with that that’s why work from home alone is a fail we agree Peter with the contention that just working from home just working rly does not work I mean when you’re working from home you’re lonely you’re cut off um you know it’s it doesn’t give you a a through line in a kill but at the same time returning to the office uh doesn’t I I loved your point about actually assuming everybody’s an adult and that they can you know if they’ve got key objectives they have to hit allow them to manage themselves if you don’t if you don’t have that belief of them um they
[00:21:01] shouldn’t be working for you exactly Peter and also let’s talk about cross-pollination so it’s one thing and if you look at most return to office what are they returning to they’re returning to offices where their team is there but how about cross team how about the fact that a place like sandbox AQ we’ve got a team working on biofarma we’ve got other teams working on chemistry we’ve got other teams thinking about uh AI in new and in very exciting ways we want to get those teams also cross ating with each other so some of these gatherings uh might be with some parts of one team and some parts of another team coming together and by the way who also shows up at one of those offsites we have our HR folks we have our recruiters let the recruiters listen in let’s see what’s happening have the recruiters embibe so that they know the kind of talent and let me come back to Talent Peter because part of what fueled our thinking about breaking through not just on what we do but how we do it was the talent issue when we started getting resumés uh both when we were inside of
[00:22:01] alphabet and then post spinout we realize the talent is everywhere Peter the talent is in Europe the talent is in Geographic Entre uh you know opportunity here of massive scale exactly now you say to somebody hey I know you have a great support system around you uh living in Austria living in France living in Spain uh living in uh other countries around the world but by the way we’re going to UPR you now and you’ve got to live you know 10,000 Mi away where you don’t know anybody and to nagus point before don’t have that support structure is that a good recipe for a great work environment just like with with Nadia you would not have gotten her if you’d been made that exactly n how big is your how big is your team and how distributed are they and how often do you meet yeah so our team is about 60 or so people at the moment uh and we work across six seven different time zones and you know it is
[00:23:00] we are intentional about where we hire depending on where our customers are as well so we can also organize ourselves to service our needs a little bit better so we have folks out in Europe to service our European customers it has allowed us to scale much quicker because we have these pods everywhere you know we didn’t have the Hub and hire people into the hubs we created the hubs around the people which I think is another key distinction here as well and and Jack I I just want to you said it passing but I want to just take a second to spell it out your Triple C strategy your third way not work from home not return to office but the Triple C can what do those C’s stand for again and just take a second to hit those beats so Peter there’s a third way we we do not have to fall into the false dichotomy of either return to office or work from home the third way that we are pioneering that others I think are taking a ceue from from us uh we literally have people calling us asking us to visit uh and
[00:24:02] understand this third way is the three C’s the first C is collaboration uh we have so many different disciplines and the work of today in the future Peter in all companies is going to be collaboration across disciplines uh both in the workplace and also in Academia look at some of the most dynamic universities look at Arizona State with Mike crow look at Michael Crow what he’s done there breaking down barriers of departments breaking down silos the same thing in the most successful companies break breaking down barriers and having people collaborate in our particular company it’s even more pronounced because we’ve got 80 plus phds in our company we have another 70 engineers in our company they have come from many different disciplines pharmacology chemistry physics engineering AI all these different th areas and of course software coding and taking that domain expertise of the phds putting it into reusable scalable software code this is a whole workflow that involves many
[00:25:00] different disciplin so collaboration is the first C the second C is about the customer Jeff Bezos uh talks so eloquently about customer first thinking we agree with him I think he was one of the Pioneers to really focus on how do you really put yourselves in the shoes of the customer and that’s something we take from him a lot of what we talk about Peter and our company is take the best from all the different cultures you’ve been in and let’s bring it together and and that’s kind of the birth of the 3 C’s we kind of got around people from many different companies many of us came from Google we took the best of Google but also we thought about other cultures so the second C is about the customer not just treating the customer like a transaction but really thinking about what’s their point of pain and you know how to find that out you got to go and be with them you got to go spend time with them not just in their workplace but also for example let’s say you’re both going to a conference set up a time a special dedicated time on the side of that
[00:26:01] conference to have your team and their team go out have a dinner together spend a lot of time understanding what they’re up to and the final C is community community and connection uh so maybe it’s two extra sees but we’ll put them in one but community and connection what is that about that’s about work where you thrive it’s about what was what is your support structure Peter you know very often uh a company says we’re here to support you uh and and you know they they might have great benefits and so and so forth uh but the fact is supporting someone means that you want to recognize and respect where they are going to work best where they’re going to live best where they’re going to thrive as people where they’re going to realize their potential an example they may have a local University that they love that they want to take more courses at uh they may have a set of family and friends around them that can support them let’s say they want to have kids uh you know if if you’re having kids and you don’t have a support structure
[00:27:00] around you God bless okay that’s going to be difficult that’s going to be difficult I mean it’s a it’s a happier employee it’s a more fulfilled employee because you can’t support all the stresses at the same time and if you’ve got you know if you’re able to have your home life um and your emotional and social life thriving it gives you more capacity to give to your to your company yeah and and let me say you know a number of things that people have said before is that um we think of company as a community sometimes people say it’s a family I think that’s not the right term families are different you have your crazy uncle who comes for Thanksgiving all the time you can’t uninvite them unfortunately but but workplace is more like a community we respect each other we treat people like adults we are outcome based we set forth clear goals and by the way where do those goals come from they don’t come from on high from Mount Olympus okay they come from the conversations and the offsites themselves bubbles up Nadia has been running a great process with her team
[00:28:02] what is going to be our outcome goals for for 2025 once a year Peter once a year We Gather the whole company we’re still small enough we can do that uh and we choose a University City last year we did it in paloalto uh at Stanford uh this past year right now this past few months we just did it in Cambridge Mass uh at Harvard MIT we’re choosing some new cities now so if you’re a city fre us how frequently do you have these these meetups these go ahead now you want to talk about that in your team yeah yeah yeah so we we have our companywide offsite as Jack mentioned once a year uh just because we’re getting so large we used to have them twice a year when we were only you know three people and then we became 50 people uh but now we just do that once a year um our team itself so we meet and our team is becoming so large at AI simulation we meet once a year as well but what the the sub teams do so our engineering and product and ux team will
[00:29:01] meet together in fact they just had an offsite out in Vancouver um our drug Discovery team will meet together that’s about a group of 20 and so we have these little pods and so there’s always touch points going on and depending on what work is being accomplished we have different cross cross functional teams that also are invited to those meetings and so there’s not a lot of time that actually passes when you’re not interacting in person with your colleagues it may seem as though wow you know you’re always at home but you’re really not you’re with a customer meeting and understanding their pain or you’re with your colleague solving for that or you’re with your family and so people are just able to be a lot more well-rounded and taken care of and accommodated in this sort of setting everybody I want to take a short break from our episode to talk about a company that’s very important to me and could actually save your life or the life of someone that you love company is called Fountain life and it’s a company I started years ago with Tony Robbins and a group of very talented Physicians you
[00:30:00] know most of us don’t actually know what’s going on inside our body we’re all optimists until that day when you have a pain in your side you go to the physician or the emergency room and they say listen I’m sorry to tell you this but you have this stage three or four going on and you know it didn’t start that morning it probably was a problem that’s been going on for some time but because we never look we don’t find out so what we built at Fountain life was the world’s most advanced diagnostic Centers we have four across the us today and we’re building 20 around the world these centers give you a full body MRI a brain a brain vasculature an AI enabled coronary CT looking for soft plaque dexa scan a Grail blood cancer test a full executive blood workup it’s the most advanced workup you’ll ever receive 150 gigabyt of data that then go to our AIS and our physicians to find any disease at the very beginning when it’s solvable
[00:31:02] you’re going to find out eventually you might as well find out when you can take action Fountain life also has an entire side of Therapeutics we look around the world for the most Advanced Therapeutics that can add 10 20 healthy years to your life and we provide them to you at our centers so if this is of interest to you please go and check it out go to Fountain life.com Peter when Tony and and I wrote Our New York Times bestseller life force we had 30,000 people reached out to us for Fountain life memberships if you go to fountainlife decomp will’ll put you to the top of the list really it’s something that is um for me one of the most important things I offer my entire family the CEOs of my companies my friends it’s a chance to really add decades onto our healthy lifespans go to fountainlife decomp it’s one of the most important things I
[00:32:00] can offer to you as one of my listeners all right let’s go back to our episode Peter if I can talk about another Innovation which is that what is the role of the senior executive in this new 3C uh structure in the Third Way what is is the senior executive supposed to sit in some Ivory Tower in in Mount Olympus and send out commands no that is a prescription for failure the senior Executives we believe in service leadership and that’s something that’s embedded inside the Third Way which is flip the whole pyramid it says that as a senior leader my job is to ask nja nja what do you need to succeed we’ve agreed on outcomes we’ve agreed on outcomes for 2025 let’s say nja what are the resources you need and along the way how do we adjust and make sure you have those resource resource doesn’t have to be just money and budget it could also be Naga telling me hey Jack I really need your help opening the door to that partner I need your help opening the door to that particular customer I need advice on how to we work with to help her succeed that’s right that’s my job
[00:33:00] and so that means that the senior leadership we’ve got to be on the Move yes and and then not his job is to help her team succeed in the same way yeah in the same way I agreed and and I love that it is a service mindset from from leadership um and I’ve seen so many companies absolutely fail when the CEOs got this massive plush real estate office and that’s like you know come and pray at the at the Temple of yeah I I don’t have an office Peter on purpose because my office is typically traveling and recently I just flew to New York in order to be with one of the team offsites it was a really exciting time they’re dealing with a number of different ideas about what’s their next road map they’re not sure whether to put this feature first or that feature they’re they’re having a lot of very good discussions not my job to decide by the way I did not aine on that particular point I was there just again to support and understand how could I be helpful to that team and then a few weeks ago I flew to a different uh
[00:34:01] offsite to pop in there and see how it could be helpful there and so as senior leaders what I tell my senior leaders when I bring them aboard you got to sign up for this this is something that is not typical you’re not going to be showing up in an office and clocking in and once in a while as a senior leader we have a bigger burden yeah do you make an investment in the employees home office absolutely so uh we make a lot of Investments when people people are on boarded the first thing we do is make sure they’re set up well in the home office I can ask na to talk more about that I want to talk about something else though there’s also skill sets that we invest in I’ll give you an example every single person that gets onboarded into our company gets media and presentation training to give speeches to give talks why is that here’s another part of the Third Way Peter in the old way in the big companies of the world today you are not allowed to just go and give a talk on behalf of the company if you’re not the CEO or one of the senior leaders you
[00:35:00] got to go get permission fill out three forms I’ve been involved in several large companies in my career and it would take months sometimes for me to get permission to go give a talk and Peter I’ve had some experience giving talks as you know from your conferences and you do a beautiful job of it and thank you um and so it was a frustrating experience because I wanted to represent the company I wanted to let people know about the incredible things that company was doing we fli that script again what we do is we say to everyone the default position is yes go give that talk don’t ask permission don’t fill out forms go give that talk by the way we’re treating like an adult here is a folder on our drive that has all the materials that you can use in your in your talks and sure enough uh we’ve had hundreds of talks given by our folks over the past two three years that is stark contrast to a number of uh let’s call it the trillion dollar companies out there today I won name names where you know I’m speaking to a a division president
[00:36:03] or a senior VP or whatever and like come and speak at this event I’m sorry I’m not allowed to it’s kind of insane I’m sure Peter you get that you get this when you ask people to come to your podcast be like oh I have to go get permission right to come on your and why why are people doing that we consider everyone in our company uh our advisors our full-time employees ambassadors in fact not just the people we also have this Residency program and I’ll ask na to talk about that and we consider them ambassadors maybe Naja you want to talk about that a little bit in terms of you know how we uh Empower people to go out and speak on behalf of the company and the also The Residency program and let me just let me just frame this one second before you jump into that for everybody uh listening if you’re an entrepreneur if you are a senior executive an employee at a company um the whole conversation here is to show you a a third option a new way uh and especially if you’re a Founder
[00:37:01] CEO here the value of of becoming an exponential organization and slim and I wrote about this in exponential organizations 2.0 and talking about you know the speed of change is not uh there’s an impedance mismatch with the old ways of doing things the old ways of of working from the office and if you really want to create a truly exponential organization it is uh this geograph graphic uh uh you know Arbitrage getting access to employees around the world it’s setting up the infrastructure to enable that um that agility uh which is probably the single most important asset you can have uh highly overstructured organizations will fail as there is rapid iteration and change in how we do things and just that’s the frame I really want to bring this uh for folks to listen to Nadia please over to you yeah one of the really incredible things about sandbox and it’s part of our core values is that we have this incredible learning culture
[00:38:02] which is I I think fits into that community and connection C and as part of that we re like we believe in continuous education we love to hire the folks that are tinkering and are you know experimenting with AI are at the edge of things and so we often find ourselves you know create like having our offsites at these universities recruiting from these universities we have programs because we’re at the edge of Technology we actually have to train the next set of folks that might want to come work for us because these skill sets don’t naturally exist they’re not learning this stuff and so we have an entire Education team that works on creating cour work and various degree programming at NYU is an example of this uh and so this you know this learning culture and creating a community around it is really deeply rooted in Who We Are appreciate that you know Jack I first of all I hope
[00:39:00] that you’ll write this up um as a a third you know the Third Way and get this out let me let me dive into a to a slightly different direction here which is you know Jamie Diamond recently said the next generation of employees will work for three and a half days a week and live to 100 years old I agree with the 100 years old part um and more I mean at least 100 least 100 yes exactly uh he don’t don’t get me started there I’ll take you on buddy but uh you know the 3 and 1/2 days of work if you love what you’re doing um I don’t know I mean I I play seven days a week in what I do um and and it’s always a balance between home and and work and and everything but as I was on stage with Tony at one of the abundance Summits Tony Robbins one the abundance sumits recently we talked about it’s not life work balance about life work integration and I think that is really what you’re talking about how do you integrate this in a way that’s that’s meaningful what do you think what do you what do
[00:40:01] you think about these predictions of you know Microsoft Japan tested a 4-day work week and productivity jumped 40% you know Jamie Diamond’s comment about three and a half day work weeks what’s your thought about that here here’s my prediction Peter I think that the best organizations the exponential organizations the organizations that have breakthrough after breakthrough be it in our Tech sector or be it in other sectors will be organizations that treat people like adults that are outcome based when you’re outcome based you know what Falls away Nursery School games like how many hours should I be working today how many days and which days and so and so forth we really consider this very very old language that’s a signal when someone kind of is talking about that at a company I’m like okay I get where you’re coming from you’re getting from you’re coming from the old idea of periods in schools and ringing bells and bells in factories and you know why do we have periods and bells ringing in schools right we know that we know
[00:41:00] because it came from the Industrial Age from the factory and so and so forth is this really where we want to go as humans is this unleashing the human potential I don’t think so so sure there there may be some roles and jobs but I think those are going to change also maybe we can jump and Lea frog also Peter now into talking about humanoid robots because you know when people say okay Jack that’s all well and fine for the kind of skilled work that you all are doing with physics and chemistry and breakthroughs and new medicines for Parkinson’s and Alzheimer’s but how about these distribution centers and warehouses how about light assembly what are we going to do there in terms of hours and so and so forth what I would say is well hold on to your seat Peter because big change is coming people are underestimating underestimating the impact of humanoid robots it’s moving very very quickly Amazon has got a pilot right now with three or four of the Rob companies will see announcements I’m sure I have no information from Amazon
[00:42:01] but I’m sure we’re going to see announcements in the next 18 months from Amazon I actually know a lot about that I just wrote a report called the metat trend report um and folks can get it at metat Trend report.com which is I looked at uh probably about 40 of the humanoid robot companies um and reported in more detail on 16 of them and the predictions right there are billions of dollars flowing in obviously Optimist 2 and Optimus 3 from Tesla we’ve got figure AI with figure 2 and figure three coming online right now we’ve got uh Apollo uh we’ve got digit um from agility these are robots that are working in Industry today um the numbers folks should realize are the following right these are you know two arms two legs 10 digigit uh robots able to do most all things they’re enabled by multimodal AI meaning they can see and understand what they’re seeing they can have a conversation with you understand what
[00:43:00] you’re asking for communicate back and the price points these level of complexity you can get to a price of typically dollars per kilogram of weight for a system of that complexity and both uh both Elon um and and the cgo Brett atock of figure AI predicts at 30k uh for a robot that you could buy it at translation that’s that’s leasing it for 300 bucks a month uh which is 30 you know 10 bucks a day 40 cents an hour uh what’s it like if you’re have a minimum wage job at 20 bucks an hour and you’re competing against a robot working 24/7 no drug testing no problems with their boyfriends or girlfriends I think we’re going to start to see a lot of those those jobs um you know sort of transformed into some other job yeah look I do think that we have to get ahead of this Amazon has put together a billion dollar fund uh uh to
[00:44:02] get ahead of this proactively and say this is a retraining fund they’re going to start training the hundreds of thousands of people I’ll let them speak for themselves but just as an observer I’m impressed by the fact that they’re taking a proactive stance I’m sure Walmart will be doing that pretty soon Walmart’s got 2.5 million people in that company of which 2 million are folks working in the warehouses and distribution centers and we know where that’s going when we look at Zara and other companies who do fast fashion and have factories in just five spots on Earth what’s going to happen is you’re going to start seeing uh basically new factories pop up in all kinds of places that didn’t pencil out before but now pencil out with humanoid robots and guess what those plants those factories will be very near the Main Street where they’re going to sell those goods taking fast fashion from 10 weeks now down to maybe 5 days right that’s going to be much faster f I know people are very excited about that I believe that so both you guys I
[00:45:01] mean sandbox AQ a stands for AI Q stands for Quantum just for folks to realize that uh deeply embedded in the AI world so let’s talk about AI employes so you know there’s predictions of I’m going to be having conversations and working with individuals who are fully are AI agents and I’m going to communicate with them I’ll be on slack with them I’ll be on zooms with them and they interact with me as if they are employees but they’re actually AIS how far are we from that and how do you think about integration into you uh into your Workforce it it’s happening already first of all let’s look at coding coding essentially is the parad on your shoulder the co-pilot um we and others are already seeing say a 10% increase in productivity uh Microsoft is reporting greater percentage productivities across some of the customers who’ve really adopted it uh I think that’s going to happen I think I would expect a benchmark of 25%
[00:46:01] increase in productivity in coding using a AI as your as your co-pilot so essentially that’s an AI agent that you’re interacting with and is helping you create the code but also most importantly debug the code that’s often what takes the longest uh in the in the coding process and also think about interactions as you know recently there was a massive outage of more than eight million computers because of the crowd strike update that’s something where an AI agent a little more sparts in the system could have looked at that interaction of that update and those systems and realize hey I think we better not press this button on this update on a Friday and destroy the entire planet uh and so AI agents I think will help us in that way uh and so one on the coding side uh absolutely I think there’ll be a lot of AI agents also that will be really good at brainstorming with us I think it’s really good as a Socratic dialogue to
[00:47:00] have an interaction with an AI agent as you’re brainstorming a new feature as you’re brainstorming a strategy you know again it’s not that the AI necessarily comes up with a strategy that’s not really the expectation but I do think it’s really cool to have that dialogue have somebody really push you who’s not a human you know the studies show now Peter that people are more willing to open up to a robotic therapist to an AI therapist than a human therapist they feel less yes and also they’re not rushed you know there’s interesting there was a uh one of the American Journal of Medicine published a paper on empathy and the AI agents were were judged to be like you know I don’t say maybe it was Forex maybe it was an order of magnitude more empathic for that reason you don’t feel judged by an AI and the AI doesn’t say I’m sorry I’ve got another patient waiting for me it just gives you as much time as you want uh that’s extraordinary I you know I used to think that empathy was the last Bastion of of of human
[00:48:02] uniqueness but perhaps not yeah and then I think you know another way of looking at this is as you know Peter the kind of AI That’s being talked about right now that’s the obsession and the shiny object right now is large language models and certainly it’s going to have a big role just like we said it’s going to have a role in talking to us in a dialogue in helping us code that’s all the large language models but we are pioneering and others now joining us in pioneering quantitative models and maybe Nadia can talk about the interaction how do you see these two coming together the quantitative side that’s so important and the language side the language side of course trained on social media comments Reddit cat pictures great for some things but not necessarily right to create a new new drug or those kind of Innovations so AI agents who are quantitative AI agents Naga maybe you can help us there yeah tell us about what is an lqm yeah an lqm so the way I think about lqm is um which is large
[00:49:01] quantitative models right well large quantitative models that’s right it’s it’s physics based it’s first principles based and so you are calculating from the groundup from first principles the way atoms and electrons and molecular properties behave in the presence of other atoms next to them it’s it’s simulating matter effectively uh from the ground up and using that data then to train a models on and that is what we do at sandbox AQ so we don’t start with a corpus of information and the the key thing there is that it allows us to move into new spaces where data does not exist right so llms really rely on existing data and it’s and it’s wonderful we have a ton of data and that is going to be a highly impactful space and we’ve seen it already but it it will have its limitations and that’s where we really see the possibility of lqm impacting new types of materials and batteries and chemistry and creating new types of um you know drugs and various
[00:50:03] things that just can’t possibly exist today help us extrapolate Way Beyond what we know um in the material Universe Jack you published recently a paper on uh sort of the breakthroughs you guys have had in the recent past which was impressive do you mind just ticking some of those off with n’s support yeah I’m going talk about I’ll talk about one or two of them and N please uh do so as well I just want to first pick up on n his point on first principles Elon is very famous for coming back to the idea of go back to First principles thinking and others I think are now also focused on that and that’s a big mantra for us uh don’t just start with data that’s out there start to think about what are the principles what are the equations that can generate data pristine data data that then talks about that Dynamic relationship of that electron to that electron that is truly the first principle the principle of down to that subatomic level so uh really proud of the work of the team um I’ll just cite a
[00:51:01] few a few things that that are happening right now with quantitative models let’s take for example navigation more and more in our world uh Peter and you know this you you you are so focus on space and Aviation and so experience there you know that GPS is brittle GPS cannot be relied upon anymore it’s being jammed in large portions of the world it’s out here and there uh and so Pilots around the world are having difficulty both in the civilian space and into in the defense space and the team a very small team at sandbox AQ literally just about 11 people again using the 3 C’s using this approach that we talked about embedded themselves with various customers who had this massive point to pain they’ve been on site with the United States Air Force again and again and again flying up in their planes particularly the c17 the Air Force has spoken publicly about this so that’s why we can talk about this today uh and and just recently completed a 2-year 2-year
[00:52:00] testing cycle that resulted in the final c17 run where they flew up with our Ai and the sensors the sensors are feeding a huge amount of quantitative data about the magnetic field of the earth coming from a Quantum sensor and that data has to go into a GPU an Nvidia GPU in this case and uh have that AI that we developed reading that in real time Peter so that it can look at the map of the world the magnetic map and look at uh where the magnetic field is underneath that plane and then figuring out where it is in space uh in in you know in the airspace and sure enough we pass that taste what they do is they take you up in a c17 Peter and without letting you know when it’s going to happen they shut off the GPS four times in that lengthy flight and you your AI has got to navigate that plane what most people don’t realize is that a GPS is being spoofed in some places it’s giving you the wrong signal which can you know sort of drive you or fly you into
[00:53:01] territories that you don’t want to be in and uh no one’s going to spoof in in any way shape or form the Earth’s magnetic field so yeah you’d have to have another Earth and bring it over here which I don’t think happen anytime soon but the point is that that that’s a breakthrough that happened with a very small team you know Margaret me said never underestimate the power of a small team a committed small team for Change and sure enough and that’s the only thing that will and sure enough that’s what we have across sandbox we we’re split into smaller teams that have their own ability to innovate and and collaborate so that’s an example where I don’t see how either return to office would have resulted in that breakthrough or work from home result there’s no way that either of those would have resulted in this breakthrough where we had to spend weeks on end at the customers we had to bring in experts from all around the world to make this happen there’s not many people agility is the key word you’re looking for here right agility of your team the ability to form and reform
[00:54:02] uh both uh both in space and time as needed real quick I’ve been getting the most unusual compliments lately on my skin truth is I use a lotion every morning and every night religiously called one skin it was developed by four PhD women who determined a 10 amino acid sequence that is a cytic that kills scile cells in your skin and this literally reverses the age of your skin and I think it’s one of the most incredible products I use it all the time uh if you’re interested check out the show notes I’ve asked my team to link to it below all right let’s get back to the episode n maybe you want to talk about P or some of the other breakthroughs we recently announced yeah I’m worried about these forever chemicals and people don’t realize we’re poisoning our world and as a mom and you know I bet you that’s something you think about please tell us absolutely um it very PR much hits close to home because we know today that P it’s a it’s
[00:55:00] a set of chemicals that are are unable to be broken down they’re man-made they’re in the environment they’re in our drinking water and we know today that babies are born with them I’m N9 months pregnant and my baby might be born with P in you N9 months PR right now I am N9 months PR God thank you for joining us wow but you know I mean there thank you so much but it it is such a problem for our industry uh one of the things that we are extremely proud of at sandbox is that we were able to break computationally for the first time in human history that bond energy of a past molecule and that is the first step in figuring out how to degrade this from our environment but then also to create new alternative pasts right that have the same properties that we know and love so much we love our Teflon you know we love our uh our waterproof coats and things like that when it rains we we
[00:56:00] love these materials they’re very useful but they’re extremely toxic and so you know we’re very hopeful that with re simulation technology like the ones we’ve built today and bringing together the teams to make these World Records to break them uh to continue to collaborate in this way on these breakthroughs are are really it’s a proof of of our model here at sandbox I want to talk about your predictions Jack you know I spoke about this a little bit before what are your what are your predictions for the future of work here um and you know people are fearful uh of AI and humanoid robots taking their jobs um how do we deal with that you know interestingly enough all the predictions thus far to date have proven false you know all of the ATMs that we thought were going to take away all the banking jobs there more banking jobs than ever before all the computers are going to take away accountant jobs or more accountant than ever before how do you think about this
[00:57:01] few things first of Peter we’re going to see huge Divergence within every sector we’re going to see winners and losers and we’re going to see that happen on the basis of both the the use of AI or lack of use of AI and also how they do the work they do so in terms of AI if we see a company out there let’s say for example take the automotive sector and we see a number of companies out there and some companies will adopt Ai and of course most of the old companies will use large language models for customer service and they’re going to have some productivity some cutting of costs probably measured in the single- digit Millions to tens of millions great everyone that’s table Stakes Peter everyone should be doing uh AI based customer service and and those kinds of areas predictive maintenance for example again everyone should be should be doing that as well but there’ll be some Automotive companies who say we’re going to actually use AI in this deeper way to create the next product we’re going to create a new material we’re going to
[00:58:00] make the car out of a material for example using more carbon composite as as one idea that’s going to lightweight my car so that whether I’m using gas or electric whatever I’m using it’s going to be more efficient the same thing could be said in the battery and energy industry we’re going to see that Divergence as well the same thing in Pharma there’ll be some Pharma companies that take hold of this Ai and use it to cut it from 8 10 years down to one to two years of preclinical work and and really have a high success rate in clinical trial and there’s others that will be slow adopters and so that’s the first Divergence but the second Vector of Divergence is going to be how they do the work I’m going to put a bold uh you wrote a book called bold Peter I’m going to put a bold prediction out here those companies in the big sectors of our economy that choose to either go down the rabbit hole of return to office only or work from home only I think they become the codc and Westing houses and Polaroids of of the future BL Blockbuster the list too Blockbuster and so and so forth and and so what I think
[00:59:02] is going to happen is companies that really want to thrive companies that want a great Workforce companies that want to have a global footprint because that’s what their customer base is global then they they’re going to choose a third way we’re putting out one idea for a third way people listening here at Peter should maybe think about their own Third Way and how to take the three C’s and maybe combine them in different ways I don’t think there’s one size fits all this works for us and I think others can take some of the elements but one big message we’re trying to share Peter is don’t get locked in but so here’s my big message to people who want to quote unquote play the AI space what how do I invest in the AI space what company do I invest in it’s actually a red herring just to look at the AI companies themselves Peter what I would suggest to people is the bigger way to play AI is to look at the biggest sectors of our economy Finance Pharma energy so and so forth and say who are going to be the winners and losers you’re going to see a
[01:00:01] vast Divergence over the next five to six years if you’re talking about something in the warehousing distribution space such as a e-commerce or retail are they going to adopt humanoid robots faster than their competitor are they going to be more efficient in how they do that Amazon yeah have been back to agility so this is what’s not spoken about Peter people get obsessed with the AI companies themselves and great to get the attention thank you fantastic but the bigger Point not discussed is how are we going to see this Divergence in the biggest sectors of the traditional economy I agree I I do want to take your your prediction here what’s going to happen with jobs here ja on jobs uh let me start and then I’ll turn to Nagi as well look I I believe that AI will produce literally millions of new jobs uh yes there’ll be some displacement within certain job categories where for example if right now you’re somebody who’s pick pack and ship in a warehouse
[01:01:02] I do think that an aid driven humanoid robot will take that job and by the way that’s going to save a huge amount of ergonomic stress and injury you know onto onto humans and we’ve got to get proactive again Amazon being proactive I hope others start to do that as well to say hey that person’s job is going away so there are specific jobs that will will go away but let’s find a new role for that person net net over 5 to 10 years I think the net is millions of millions of new jobs whole new job categories uh as well so very optimistic about that NAA get your opinion too sure I I mean you know what the way I see this going is that we’re just going to have more human AI collaborations it’s just going to uplevel everyone’s thinking it’s going to uplevel people’s roles it’s going to create new roles as as Jack mentioned and it will have new products right we will have personalized Technology Solutions personalized robots personalized AI assistants personalized
[01:02:00] agents I think it’s going to hit the consumer Market in a pretty unique way in the future but what that will do to the workforce the employees to really focus us on critical thinking and decision making and outcomes based metrics which our setup here with the 3c’s really empowers us to take advantage of pet let me add to that prediction make it even more pointed today’s Global GDP is roughly 110 trillion per year GDP of the world 110 trillion per year us is about 25% of that my prediction to you is that as AI flows through both on the language side and on the quantitative side creating new value new products new Pharma we’re going to see a doubling of the GDP of the world now that’s a bold prediction because what economists are used to is talking about a 2% increase in global GDP a 3% per year increase that would take many years right to get to a doubling that doubling is going to happen pretty soon this is something
[01:03:00] Peter you’ve talked about so many times that singularity in other exponential and abundance and other places we we are not mentally prepared as a societ I I agree with you I this is this is the Roaring 20s um from a multitude of different you know reasons as soon as you get labor and cognitive costs diminishing and you know dividing by zero leads you to Infinity uh it’s an extraordinary World ahead absolutely so so I do think that the best organizations if I can make a prediction Peter are going to be outcome based they’re going to treat people like adults they’re going to H take the best of multiple parts of these models and move ahead in their own way they’re going to make use of AI in all its forms physically embedded AI physical form of AI which is robotics of all kinds it could be a human or robot it could be uh an arm that’s used and we’ll also see Revolutions in terms of the interaction of humanoid lighter robots along with the big industrial robots that we’re
[01:04:00] we’re used to seeing we’re going to see the use of uh AI in in all kinds of community and also again in mental health as well there’s a mental health and loneliness epidemic in our country when we think about older people the idea of retiring has got to go away I’m not saying people should work forever in the sense of the kind of work we think today but the point the kind of work you do Peter when you say you don’t need didn’t feel like working right because you’re doing what you love anybody who wants to uh a good argument for not retiring Google the correlation between retirement and death as as soon as you’ve given up on a purpose in life you know having a purpose is one of the single most important things and having something to look forward to a friend of mine says having a future that’s bigger than your past right that’s that is a vibrant life and uh hopefully as we see the health span Revolution materializing that is able to give people the vital energy and you’re not in pain uh we’ll
[01:05:00] see people wanting to desire to work because our birth rat’s been dropping we need that as well I mean it’s an extraordinary World ahead um and Peter let me just say if we could marry that longevity that we’re getting with the golden age of education and I’ll na continuous education exactly so I have a friend 54 years old just became a doctor started medical school at the age of 51 just gradu uated uh she’s going to become a practicing doctor now uh not because this is the best way to necessary for her to earn money per se she wants to she’s dedicated to this idea of spending the next 30 years of her life uh practicing medicine and that’s that’s a beautiful thing let’s encourage more of that right where we want people to have second and third whole uh Pursuits I’m not even using the word career because I think that’s an old term N I don’t know if you have any thoughts on that I I kind of think about it from the drug Discovery side you know one of the key areas for us is in neurod
[01:06:00] Deen and you know it’s it’s sort of our near term Beach head and as we solve for that the next thing to go after is longevity right from now explain neuroen explain what are the what are the kind of uh diseases and neurod Deen sure sure so neurod Deen diseases I mean these are Alzheimer’s parking neurodegenerative neurod degenerative diseases that affect us at the end of our lives and you know if you live long enough you will be subject to them and I I think we will live through a world with the help of sandbox where we see these diseases be treated very successfully and so then you look at life expansion uh and you know it’s coming back to all the all all the things that you all were saying I mean that that is the ultimate final frontier of medicine it Peter we’re very fortunate at sandbox AQ to have one of our new partners and and customers is the Michael J fox foundation for Parkinson’s research and uh they they’ve asked us to use our AI to help the labs that they fund
[01:07:00] accelerate the breakthroughs accelerate the treatments accelerate biomarkers and we had the opportunity and the privilege just a few weeks ago to attend the Michael J fox Foundation Gathering where where Michael J fox was there uh I’m getting emotional talking about this because it is an emotional subject it is very inspiring to see him to see the 22 23 years that he’s dedicated to this he’s raised over $2 billion uh in this period of time to Galvanize to invest in research uh and now ai is coming to help it’s coming to accelerate the work that he has funded that others have funded um this is an incredible moment Peter Peter if I could turn the tables for minute and ask you you’re somebody who speaks to folks like us you’re somebody in touch with so many people at the edge what are you seeing uh from your Vantage Point in the growth of the exponential organization be it a for-profit be it a university be it a nonprofit what
[01:08:01] excites you about this moment in time to jump to the exponential organization yeah I I appreciate that you know one of my funds is uh a group called exponential Ventures out of uh out of MIT with Dave blundon and what we’re seeing because we we basically identify and find young teams at of MIT and Harvard because they’re they pull in from around the world and they’re there and they’re what what exactly what you’re saying they’re in a foxhole situation where they’re finding out oh I like this gal I like this guy they work hard they’re smart and they form sort of a nucleus um and today the incoming MIT freshman 70% want to start a company all right which is extraordinary never was that way and a lot of those are AI companies and so I think there is a um two different drivers today one that people want to do something that’s meaningful they just don’t want a
[01:09:00] job they want to contribute to society they want to have the ability to be part of a massive transformative purpose um and the second thing is they want to have the agility to live their life where they want how they want and I think uh old style companies trying to recruit into very structured formats are going to have a hard time competing uh just very fundamentally uh and I think the the tools of collaboration um that were you know listen Co gave us a gift uh and that gift was driving a new um expectation of how we work um sort of breaking the old model and giving us a set of collaborative tools that everybody adopted I think we’re also going to see this uh this transformation hitting education too because today we still have a very old school educational model in Elementary Middle High School College all of that um so a lot of
[01:10:00] transformation coming how we work with each other agility for me is the number one uh sort of measure of of success you know if you multiply intelligence times uh agility uh you get magic that’s great Peter no great great to get that point of view as well also a shout out to our friend Dove Simon for writing the book called How uh it was written before this period of time so um but he really focused also on Integrity on the focus on making sure that when you’re working with people there’s openness there’s transparency um I also got inspired by that that book as well and I think you’re right Peter it’s probably time for us to write this up to write up the three C’s to write up the third way uh and and to show people there are alternatives you don’t have to jump into one bucket or the other and suffer the consequences I think you need to give the heads the heads of R the head the the employee base the executive base um
[01:11:00] a tool to use a a a data Playbook yeah so that they have because today we just default to the old ways of doing things it’s the Cog it’s our cognitive bias as you spoke about earlier um let me just say to both of you thank you um Jack I am grateful to call you a friend a board member uh Trustee of the ex prise uh one of our most you’re a nuclear power source I call you that every time the loud amount of energy enthusiasm and uh the plutonium is right here right here yeah buddy I know it is and and Nadia what a true pleasure to meet you you’re brilliant uh and I look forward to deepening a friendship with you as well so everybody uh here we are there’s a a new way of work it’s the three C’s approach um you know I agree with what Jack and Nadia have said you know return to office very limmited uh uh and working from home very limited the question is how do you provide the agility to become an exponential organization to really employ
[01:12:00] exponential entrepreneurs who are adults that you believe in you give them outcome focuses outcome focused objectives uh and let them do their work unencumbered and I love what you said Jack you know as a leader uh whether you’re running a division of AI simulation what a cool name that Nadia has or whether the CEO of the company helping your team succeed breaking down their service leadership service leadership um guys thank you for all excited to have you back on on the moonshots podcast to hear the continued breakthroughs and I love that forever chemicals are going to be uh broken down forever no more exactly exactly that’s right that’s right well great to be with both of you Peter thanks for hosting us Nadia thanks for joining today thank you guys thank you both so much for having us be well
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