if you’ve got open AI versus Google versus China versus anthropic if there’s a step function interpreted or intercepted by one of them it’s game over then again disagree for my former reasons if I could know anything or if I could predict anything how would it impact my business Ai and the super intelligence feels really powerful on the doing stuff but the being is where all the the future emanates from and where power comes from people don’t realize the fact that we’re living in a time where the things we take for normal and for granted are truly Godlike you know decades ago or centuries ago completely welcome to moonshots and special episode of WTF is happening in Tech this week myself and Sim Ismael Sim good to see you buddy good to be back for those of you who don’t know selem uh he is one of the most extraordinary Tech thinkers on the planet uh was head of innovation at Yahoo uh for their Bri
[00:01:00] house Innovation Labs joined me at Singularity University as our first president there has gone on uh to write a number of bestsellers including exponential organizations I had the pleasure of of uh of co-authoring exponential organizations too with selem you now heads open EXO uh s before we jump in talking about AI Bitcoin robotics all that stuff uh where can people find you on social uh easiest place is atmail which is my Twitter handle or X handle and secondly open open xo.com which is our Global community of close to 40,000 enthusiasts technologists entrepreneurs innovators Etc so we think about how do you organize for this crazy future that’s hurtling at us um in terms of institutional change and organizational change you know you said my ex handle that was pretty good you almost said my Twitter handle I know that you funny cuz
[00:02:00] Elon put out a a a I going to say a tweet put out a a what do you call it you put out a it’s a post a post okay he put out a post and he said should I still call it X or should I call it Twitter and I I messaged back at him I said I need a verb I need a verb and a post is not a good verb I you know tweeting is a great verb so it is youan if you’re listening we need a better version of Xing all right let’s jump in uh we’re going to be talking on this episode on what’s been happening in the last few weeks in the subjects of AI Bitcoin Robotics and biotech and other cool stuff let’s start with AI um wow so uh here we go the future of search is it GPT search or Google I mean Google’s had an incredible you know Global dominance for so long uh what do you think about this Le you know uh there’s there’s
[00:03:00] they’ve had massive dominance uh when when Microsoft integrated Chachi PT into Bing it didn’t make a dent uh I think it’s incredible what Google has done um and there there’s an important Point here the the the courts just ruled Google a monopoly and there’s some rationale to that but uh Eric Schmidt and others have said you it’s just a click away to use on other search engines so it’s really uh by sheer uh focus on user experience that they become this amazing um I think the the way that Google is integrating uh GPT into you know Gemini results right at the top of the search bar as will keep it ahead I think it’s a hard thing to break through that because they just have so much data and AB testing around what uh search results should look like Etc you know this this reminds me of the fact that the user interface is so extraordinary uh critical right so when Google you know I mean listen you were at Yahoo and Yahoo was just like m massively complex page and they were
[00:04:01] worried about everything was going and then Google came out with just like a simple like box to type stuff into it’s it’s really really hard it you know can I give you a quick story from the Yahoo days yeah sure um you had this mail interface and Yahoo mail was like predominant for for many many years and it turned out by AB testing if you moved the send button by just a few pixels one way the other the usage dropped off pretty dramatically because users got habituated to that that layout and it was really hard to change it so you need a paradigm shift change like the Google change to make a difference otherwise you’re stuck because you’ve trained your users in operating one way the UI design changes were unbelievably difficult in incremental mode well we’ve seen the same thing with you know frankly chat GPT became this very simple user interface right the functionality of chat GPT um was there before but when they made it like just you know type at me
[00:05:00] um all of a sudden it took off to a million users and this is that comment you always talk about the deceptive right that when you make a technology usable it goes from disrupt deceptive to disruptive but let me ask you a question when you need a piece of data do you Google or do you go to chat GPT and ask the question there I’m these days I’m doing both uh just because the triangulation of that uh becomes it’s so easy to ask in both environments but I do think that GPT uh search GPT 40 whatever’s coming next is taking a bite out of Google and we’ll we’ll talk about that um in in just a little bit let’s go to the next uh story for this week man this was a big one uh why don’t you kick this one off and I’ll play the video while we’re while we’re talking over it yeah you know it’s hard to to gauge with this stuff we’re crossing The Uncanny Valley as they call talk about it in this area and it’s very
[00:06:00] very difficult to deal with this um because we just our human perceptions can’t cope with what the AIS can generate now look at any of the modern games and you see it you missed the point there though this is a fake video this is like fully generated and it’s like it’s you could not tell the difference between realistic and this generated video so with Laura and gen 3 Alpha you know again this is just the beginning important to know we been predicting this for a long time right at the what’s the point at which a uh the resolution of an AI generated image exceeds the the pixelation of the human eye and we’ve now crossed that Rubicon and so how we navigate this future is going to be really really crazy to tell I love this one um here’s again we’re using AI to bring anything to life uh and let’s take a look at at this I mean
[00:07:00] you know two years ago someone looking at that would have assumed it was re oh not two years ago but probably four or five years ago that it was real and being able to bring you know Mozart to life here like this I mean the AI is taking a lot of Liberty in in its translation but holy cow that’s extraordinary i i i bucket this with the the previous slide right like this the the the what we’re going to now be able to do is so amazing I’m really looking forward to having you know real fullon conversations in video mode with at Plato and Aristotle and you had that at the abundance Summit uh I think that that becomes it it actually uh opens up our history in a really powerful way unlike anything we’ve ever seen before you know um one of the things that we’re beginning to see is people bringing their loves one loved ones back right those who have passed and uh I think we’ve talked about this before and just
[00:08:00] if you’re if you’re listening if your mom and dad are still with you your grandparents are still with you take a moment to go and record them on your iPhone uh record their voice um you know sit them down for two or three hours give them a glass of wine and get them to talk you know uh whimsically about their history and you can train up an AI model that’s going to be with you for the next Century um you know I I’ve got to give kudos here to Ray Criswell right who 20 years ago has been doing this for the last 30 40 years recording every scrap of data he could about his father yeah and and collecting it and aggregating it because he predicted that at some point we would be able to train am models to do that and now we’re there uh my dad is just about 97 now um and every time I see him he’s still with it meant fully right he’s like living alone driving around he shouldn’t be doing any of that um uh and the but the every time I’m with him now I throw on a camera and I just record everything that’s aming because it’s going to be incredibly
[00:09:00] powerful to bring back that the only thing I haven’t gotten to is how do you bring back the the sheer wisdom that comes with that level of Age and what he’s seen well I think the wisdom is going to come back for for our grandkids from us if we ever considered why I don’t know by the sheer volume of the you know the X poost can’t say the tweets we put out there the all the blogs we’ve written all of that becomes sort of a compiled version of it does but for the Elder generation we have such you know think of the black and white Stills we have of our great grandparents right there’s very little can I can I tell you super funny little story about my dad I did one of my meeting of Life sessions right and somebody the audience said hey I really loved your talk fixing civilization this tedex talk I did my dad’s hand goes up he goes can I Heckle and I’m like yeah of course you can you know he goes totally disagree with your talk I’m like what do do you not think we need to fix civilization he goes yeah of course we do but it’s not this fixing part it’s the civilization part he goes we’ve not
[00:10:01] civilized the world we’ve materialized the world now we have to do the work to civilize the world I totally lost the audience because like you wisdom bomb from the elders boom and it was a profound comment I’ve been sitting with that for the last couple of years it’s a really powerful framing that we actually we’re Apes with tools operating in tribal paradigms and this is a nightmare for the future yeah uh you know the other comment along those lines and I’ve been you know I’m I’m working on on my next book age of abundance with Steven Cotler and our opening chapter is uh titled our ancestors would see us as Gods right and I mean I think people don’t realize the fact that we’re living in a time where the things we take for normal and for granted are truly Godlike you know decades ago or centuries ago completely it’s it’s really incredible that you can video with anybody anywhere in the world pretty much for free yeah speaking of about creating you know live
[00:11:01] video imagery from conversation whatever um artists win Key ruling in AI copyright case thoughts I have strong thoughts about this this is the you know we talk about the the transition from film photography to digital photography right when you go from a material substrate to a digital substrate and all of a sudden the domain explodes because we can take billions of times more photographs from free and we talk about reading to digital biology is the same kind of analogy our old IP laws entire our en entire intellectual property framework doesn’t work in a digital age because if you think about how a human being uh looks at a copyrighted work they’ll watch a bunch of film clips a bunch of music videos and then they’ll create something and subconsciously use those same patterns all a is doing is accelerating that dramatically into tax that seems absurd it’s insane because you know an artist goes to the Lou and
[00:12:00] is inspired by the by the work I mean all they’re doing is training their own neural net in the same way that these AIS are training their neural Nets and so like you’re going to say to somebody I’m sorry you were inspired by Da Vinci and you’re coping him this is totally the leite Revolt Etc now we don’t know what the actual answer is right yeah um the the best answer may be what we’ve seen in music where the dig the the the music stuff becomes table stakes and the live performances where people make all their money and so something similar like that has to emerge in in different artistic domains well I’ll give you an example uh you know you know Bill gross for the CEO of IDE lab uh bill has a new company uh called pr. that I think has just been announced like this week and what they’re doing is they’ve built models that are able to go and search the body of existing work and then create statistic Le ties back to a
[00:13:00] new generated piece of work and the idea there is that if someone is making money off of something and they have copied or they’ve been using content out of EXO um out of our book that there’s some small amount of uh Revenue that traces back to us so it’s it’s very similar to uh the search models that that have powered Google for example anyway it’s it’s definitely worthwhile Endeavor I don’t know how you fully apply it or enforce it but it’s worth doing let’s see if it works um you know I added this to our stack uh Ai and weather forecasting because I’m still Blown Away by the power of massive data analytics that these models can take on so the idea that you know the most accurate 10day forecast are now coming out of AI models um and of course that’s what that’s what AI does is it takes a seemingly massive
[00:14:00] amount of uncorrelated data and is able to make interpolations and extrapolations and where this is going for me is AI being able to predict earthquakes being able to predict stock markets being able to predict a whole slew of different things all sorts of stuff and this has massive real world implications you may have heard me speak about the car washes in BOS Aris remember that a 20 50% drop in revenues over a 20-year period just because you were better able to model when it’s going to rain and when you know it’s going to rain you don’t wash your car and that’s such a huge impact on an industry and the key there is you can be the smartest car wash owner in the world and you’ll just never see that coming and this is I think the orthogonal effect of technology on domain after domain after domain better or worse it’s just going to change uh everything well I I think this is where as an entrepreneur you need to be looking at uh you know if I could know anything or if I could predict anything how would
[00:15:01] it impact my business right whether you’re in the fashion business or the car wash business or the you know the gardening business um uh if you’re able to that’s the hard part is saying what would I want to know and if I could know that how would it give me different economics a different business model honestly as you’re saying this a whole Vector appears to me right which is you get an AI sophisticated enough and say you go look through the different domains and figure out where you could make a massive economic impact and come back to me and we’ll pick out the best five I mean that’s the that’s the whole idea of like you know the the billion dollar T trillion dollar you know AI startup with one one one guy or gal in their dog and an AI uh is becoming a unicorn I mean but that’s that’s cheating to just say go make me money well no I don’t believe it is every 20-year-old is that they’re doing exactly that yeah but I think you should have at least a you know you should say go make me money in something I care
[00:16:01] about or a big but this becomes key right now when it comes back to you with 20 things how do you filter and you’ll have to filter according to your MTP yeah I and that’s where things become really important I mean that’s one of the things that we that we pointed out in the exponential or work is that you have to begin with your massive transformative purpose your MTP that thing you care about I mean by the way they just had the vcon conference um and uh J Shetty on stage apparently shouted it out and said the most important thing you could have is a massive Transformer to a purpose nice good getting out that lexicon out there you know the times I have failed in a business um have been when and this is on two occasions I know where I tried to go quick get money like you know like that that will be a quick you know getrich quick scheme and the fact of the matter is if you don’t care about it every business is hard and you’re going to give up before you know if looks easy from a distance the closer
[00:17:00] you get you see all the all the uh the pimples and wrinkles and problems yeah and then you give up because you don’t actually give a about it we should have a debate with Scott Galloway because he just put out a book saying your following your passion is full utter you shouldn’t do that follow where your talent is um and I I looked at I read this and I’m like I totally wanted to debate this obviously he’s going for the attention there I have a it turns out I had a great talent for Designing large scale uh databases Enterprise databases that is not where any interest of mine ever fell and who the hell wants to spend your life doing that all right meta releases the largest open uh model in history um you know there’s this ongoing debate of open versus closed all right we’ve got hugging face We’ve Got U meta you know even grock even Elon said we’re going to make grock open source um you know I do believe that this is important for a
[00:18:00] whole slew of reasons the question is you know we’ve got on the closed side of the equation we’ve got Google and we’ve got Microsoft slopen aai um you know can the open source models compete financially with closed Source okay I’ve got a bunch of thoughts here I think there’s a clear future coming out um it’s the open- source models are are are overtaking the close Source models over time so I think there will be an arms race where a close Source model gets to say gp4 right you get to chat gp4 and and they have a lead for a bit but then the open source models catch up very quickly and you just the whole domain just moves forward that much more quickly because of it in the end open always beats closed yeah that was one of Google’s principles which is why I’m kind of surprised they’ve gone closed and not open here I think the they’ve got so much under the hood and we’ll talk a little bit more about that in a few slides that that they don’t know how to open it up um I
[00:19:02] think oh meta has done it just to be catchup and I I got to give huge Kudos here to Mark and the entire team at meta for doing this they’ve gone really they’ve done some amazing work at open sourcing AI models it’s pushing the boundaries for everybody he’s forcing the closed guys to really push forward more quickly and open themselves up also for sure um your buddy vitalic on on super intelligence um should I play the video then we’ll chat about it yeah yeah he says here uh he argues that uh if one AI pulls out ahead uh during this period of super exponential growth uh that it’s game over that AI wins all right let’s play the video If you imagine you know like every AI growing exponentially then like whatever the existing different like ratios of Power are get preserved but if you imagine it growing super exponentially right then what happens is that if you’re a little bit ahead then like the the ratio of the lead actually starts increasing and then the worst case is if you have a step
[00:20:00] function right then whoever first discovers like some magic leap which could be discovery of nanotchnology could be discovery of like something that increases compute by factor of 100 could be some algorithmic improvement would be able to just like immediately turn on that Improvement and then uh they’d know quickly expand they’d quickly be able to find all of the other possible improvements before anyone else and then they’d take over everything right in in environment as kind of like unknown in predictable as that like are you really actually going to get of a bunch of courses that like roughly stay you know within sight of each other in the race so it’s game over at that point um first of all uh is he an alien or what well you can see his brain literally trying to break out of his head right um uh vitalic is is just the one of the most magnificent extraord intelligence is around um I have a huge beef with this you do okay I actually agree with him and I like it
[00:21:01] what your can okay let me go on my little rant here yeah um this happens typ across the board with folks in this like moat Ray cwell Etc when you think about intelligence my beef is what the hell do you mean by intelligence because there’s about a dozen facets of intelligence the IQ test as we know it only measures two of them the the speed of thought processing and the ability to match a concept across multiple Frameworks we don’t talk about emotional intelligence or the Eastern concept or presence or awareness we don’t talk about Linguistics intelligence music intelligence spatial intelligence there’s a whole bunch of factors and when you make a decision or a choice as a leader you’re bringing a lot of that thinking a lot of those different facets to Bear emotional intelligence for example so the beef I have here is please for God’s sakes before you go talking about intelligence Define what you mean by it and have the courage to define the term clearly okay well I’m going to define it all of those things I’m going to Define it as you know when
[00:22:01] I’m speaking to someone who is intelligent their ability to uh to drive arguments to be able to uh to speak um in a in a f compelling fashion in a knowledgeable fashion about a subject and win an argument or on another side being able to go bring a body of knowledge to drive and extrapolate into new breakthrough any of these things I mean human intelligence and all of its richness I you know I agree with these guys that we’re going to reach that with uh with digital intelligence if not next year in the next three or four years now the question becomes super intelligence is you know as you know Elon was saying it on stage at the abundance Summit this year you know his prediction is by 2029 2030 AI is of equal intelligence the entire human race now I mean we’ve talked about this since days of Singularity University where you know
[00:23:01] exponential growth you know what happens when AI is a billion times more intelligent across all Dimensions but hold on like think about I’ll give you this this simple framing right okay you’re looking to hire somebody and they uh your gut is saying don’t something’s wrong don’t hire them okay okay and there’s some signal to noise Ratio or some pattern or detection pheromones God knows what where some something is not clicking and you kind of go with your gut and we know what the value is of that that choic making you know Google did a study looking at video clips of an interviewee and the interviewer and they they built a model to predict whether the person would get hired of course and and how much time did they require of the video interview to make the decision of we’re going to hire or not hire do you remember that number yeah it was like a few seconds yeah it was like under 30 seconds the first 30 second determines everything so there’s a lot
[00:24:01] there’s a lot of of data that’s not but do you think an AI can’t pick that data up don’t they could the pro the the problem comes in replicating that core function now also let’s also note that um a simple AI uh uh hiring algorithm beats a human hiring manager by 25% right that’s again coming from from Google because if I’m interviewing people subconsciously I’m going to interview and hire a middle-aged Indian ball guy because I think that’s the best people in the world not necessarily true yeah our cognitive biases really suck right so so you don’t know what but but there’s so many different levels at which were were I did a Tom Bilu podcast a few weeks ago and I talked about this we have our soul intelligence we have our emotional and subconscious intelligence then we have our cognitive uh and rational intelligence right and we use all of that to make deep choices and and decisions about the world um AI right now are coming from the top down
[00:25:01] we still have no understanding of how we make choices at all evolutionary uh um uh survival bias is the only way we’ve gotten to where we are and we have no idea how we’ve gotten here so I think there’s a big big uh beef around this and remember at the abundance Summit I asked Ray specifically what do you mean by intelligence and he goes oh my phone makes me smarter therefore that’s what we mean by it and that’s valid but a complete sidestep of the question have a deeper like I’d like to get all these guys together and challenge them with this Framing and say guys let’s talk about what do we mean by this because your emotional intelligence has a huge bearing on your success as a leader in the future that’s not mimicked or modeled at all anywhere mhm all right we missed we sidestep the entire point balic was making though which is in a super intelligence race right if you’ve got open AI versus Google versus China versus anthropic whatever if one of them if there’s a step function interpreted
[00:26:00] or intercepted by one of them it’s game over then it it tips instantly in favor of that other individual again disagree for my former reasons um uh look let me let me take another tack at this we for a long time you know there’s I I’ll a human being can operate in two modalities doing versus being okay and doing is like getting out there and getting stuff done and being is just sitting with your s and being in both are needed for success as a human being and AIS and the super intelligence feels really powerful on the doing stuff but the being is where all the the future emanates from and where power comes from and again I’m going to like Eastern metaphysics we don’t get into that but there’s a lot more to talk about than just that all right well let’s talk about this one so we’ve been hearing about project strawberry for some time it is uh you know Sam Alman starts tweeting pictures of Strawberry Fields
[00:27:00] And so we’re expecting a release of uh of uh strawberry by the way which had previously been called qar and if you remember when when Sam was fired by uh uh the board and and just a small factoid one of the board members who fired Sam I wouldn’t say the name but was a su graduate from our first our first class anyway uh so qar was like oh my God they have AGI you know there was all these rumors floating around uh but project strawberry um thoughts Seline uh okay cter to my previous point I’m incredibly excited about this right why because machine learning just basic machine learning finds signal from noise that a human being can’t possibly see so when you take all of the in uh research papers thousands and thousands of millions of them published and pass it through an AI the ability to see something and detect and figure out the
[00:28:01] future is going to be unbelievably powerful I think for me as a form of a physicist um I’m think we’ll find entirely new physics that we couldn’t discover as human beings and solve the entanglement problem andic Theory and stuff once a physicist always a physicist are you really a former physicist do you not think about things I’m just a bad physicist in the classic term call it former just like you with the with the MD MD yeah yeah they never come to me for anything you I do a two for one appendix removal I’ll take your both your appendices out so you know I think the idea of Agents being able you know when you ask a question uh of uh Google for or whatever becomes I’m sorry Google for great GPT 40 whatever is next and it can spin up a multitude of Agents go do a bunch of research in a bunch of different areas and then come back with Consolidated answer um that’s a that is
[00:29:01] a big deal it’s a big deal and and Eric Schmidt talked about this and I think we’re going to cover that the there it’s unbelievable I hate the term agentic AI I just why I think that was pretty cool I mean it sounds like a drug I to look I had to look it up the first time yeah why not just say agent based um you know uh anyway that’s just that’s just my biases or whatever real quick I’ve been getting the most unusual compliments on my skin truth is I use a lotion every morning and every night religiously called one skin it was developed by for PhD women who determined a 10 amino acid sequence that is a cytic that kills scile cells in your skin and this literally reverses the age of your skin and I think it’s one of the most incredible products I use it all the time uh if you’re interested check out the show notes I’ve asked my team to link to it below all right let’s get back to the episode so this is uh from the the co-founder of
[00:30:00] zapier says AI language models have stalled in the progress of AGI an increasing scale will not help what is inherently limited technology I’m not going to play the video here but there is a lot of conversation around will we get to AGI right this is almost all these things become religious in one standpoint um there’s a group of folks who say no we’re not going to get there we don’t have you know listen uh the the uh Nvidia chips the the gpus the and the current um uh the current large language models generative Ai and the amount of data just isn’t enough and others like are you kidding me we’re we’re already there um I have a I have a little insight that we that we did um that I’d love to talk about here okay I’d love to so I did a little short conversation with hod Lipson who’s an AI researcher um um does has a lab at Colombia where they build self- assembling robots with
[00:31:00] recursive algorithms to figure out um how um um robots can self-improve and survive and and build in survival bias Etc into the robots and he did something really profound and he has an angle to this that I think really is the more most uh in-depth and clear that I’ve ever seen around the question of AGI and he basically said the self extent of self-awareness of any being is the ability to view it itself s in the future like you and I are pretty good at knowing thinking what we might look like in 5 years or what life might be like in 5 years and we can contemplate that a mosquito can’t do that right a dog can do it for like a few hours type of thing so me like a dog can do it because it’s anticipating a walk or dinner or yeah it can it has some concept of what modeling itself into the future in the near future in the near future in that case we can look out years basically use vector and he went to Gemini in Chi PT and said how would
[00:32:01] you view yourself in a few years and apparently uh the question was shut down completely by the AI there are guardrails that have been put into these AI models that essentially forbid the AI from picturing itself in the future or in the past okay and he thinks this is deliberate that whole Vector where AI seem to become sensient and freaked out all the AI researchers and they shut it down or this may be what happened at at Chachi PT and now they’ve put guards and you can’t ask the question so uh uh go try that out well of course I’m going to go do that as soon we finish it course but it’s a really fascinating thing to think about is that once you open up that and somebody will because once you have the open source models you can load it up and and ask whatever question you want once you get to that and an AI can perceive itself or create a model of itself in the future um H’s uh conclusion is that self-awareness comes very rapidly after that and a sense of self emerges very quickly that combined
[00:33:01] with massive access to computation and information changes the game completely so that’s there’s something really incredibly powerful that we should delve a lot more into I love that idea so it is true just going back to this it is true that the the AGI models AI models and llms have kind of stalled but I think this is normal I remember that conversation I had with Jeffrey Hinton back in 2017 and I asked him what’s the next steps in Ai and he said we’ve reached the end what we can do with deep learning we need the next step and I we don’t know what that is and literally a few months later the Transformer paper was released I think we’ve now kind of seven eight years later come to the limitations and the boundary conditions for llms and now we’re going to go to the next level and again we don’t know what that is but it’s being birthed right now I suspect uh Eric Schmidt um love the man he’s amazing he’s been an incredible benefactor the exerprise uh and he’s a uh a very expansive thinker uh in the news this week a couple of
[00:34:00] comments that he’s made uh one about AI models and one about whether Google is losing the race with open Ai and why let’s talk about the uh what he said this this uh week about what’s coming up next year uh SEL why don’t you cover that one I’ll cover the uh the Google yeah you know when you look at when you look at how Evolution works right you take half your genes from your mother and half your genes from your father and you cross it and then survival bias and natural selection will pick the best traits going forward and I think what’s Happening Here is we’ve developed these different threads in Ai and in the case of Eric he says we’ve got large contact Windows agents and text action so we take the kind of genetic capabilities I’m using the for term loosely and now you combine them the potential outputs and the outcomes will be really powerful and Incredibly uh uh uh incredibly powerful and I think I’m incredibly excited where AI goes with this yeah I mean what could possibly go wrong I mean so large context windows I mean just to
[00:35:00] to dive into each of those elements here we’re talking about you know loading in books and ultimately libraries movies everything and having you know so one of the future versions of AIS are AIS on on your in your uh your employee team right so you can imagine having AI agent who steps in uh for marketing or design or you know Tech and it it reads every email ever written inside your organization it reads uh every slack Channel and so on day one that AI employee knows everything and is able to hold all of that in context that’s incredible so for me this becomes like the the slide rule to Excel spreadsheet shift right uh every single employee every single manager will have access to multiple agents that has access and can
[00:36:00] look at all the information in a firm collectively and we’ll just become better decision-making engines again in one vector but I think this is huge the potential here is unbelievable and then text to action is the fact that we’re you know AIS don’t live uh in full isolation there is a point now where you can say your AI cook me dinner um you know go and find this information go physically you know clean this thing I mean especially we’ll talk about robots in a little bit where robots become extend you know physical extensions of AIS in the world um the ability for AIS to uh to have a gentic capabilities I know you love that word well I think once you have an AI that can program right which we cross that Rubicon with uh GPT 3 and four um you essentially have the ability for any AI to impact the real world yeah um because so many
[00:37:00] of our devices are programmable devices and we’re essentially turning the world into into information which they can then be programmed and therefore uh We’ve crossed that divide and now an AI has true agency in terms of what it can achieve in the physical world there’s a really important other piece of just to be go here relating back to the other one which is that when we talk about intelligence um it turns out that the need the evolution of intelligence was almost completely the Adaptive need to navigate in the physical world and so again let’s cover that more in the robotics part but that’s a huge uh rationale for why Evolution created intelligence in neor cortex St functions in the first place all right let’s talk about this second one Google losing open AI you know I’ve got to imagine that at the executive conversations at Google they’re like WTF is going on here you know how did we possibly get into this situation well here’s what uh Eric thinks uh made them uh second tier to
[00:38:02] open AI in some areas Google decided that work life balance and going home early and working from home was more important than winning and the startups the reason startups work is because the people work like hell and I’m sorry to be so blunt but the fact of the matter is if you all leave the university and go found a company you’re not going to let people work from home and only come in one day a week wow pretty damn spot-on and ballsy of Eric to say that um and I listen I know this is okay maybe we’re going to disagree on this right because in the whole EXO model you know it’s like just distributed and all those benefits but listen the companies that I’ve seen I’ve invested in the companies I’ve built when you’re there in the thick of it physically all together 7
[00:39:00] days a week you got to believe that you know I just went and and visited um uh zipline um and I just did a podcast with the with the CEO of zipline and when I was physically there the energy right of you know hundreds of people like literally crammed into this office with dashboards up on the walls you don’t get that virtually you don’t get that kind of energy that kind of Drive I mean it’s a new organ that comes out when I was at figure uh with Brett Adcock you know the team is there you know 700 a.m. to 900 p.m. every day just and they’re excited about what they’re building I don’t know work from home you know okay uh I think these are two different topics that he’s conflating here and I I take the very very big risk of disagreeing with Eric which is one who was one of the smartest and wisest people in the world um I think the work from home versus physical
[00:40:00] presence does have a factor and I totally agree with you there right there’s an energy that comes from like for example we just had a massive win at open EXO and I can’t I can’t high five anybody around me and there’s a big loss from that that connection that human connection go straight back to the comment we just had around um uh human beings and being physically in mode we you know year for years we thought virtual conferences would take over real conference says but people love the scarcity of the human connection and Conference inperson conferences are more popular than ever so I completely get the inperson versus remote work and the difference there I disagree that that’s the reason that AI is open AI is beating uh Google and I’ll take you back to Facebook Okay um Facebook beat Yahoo and Myspace and Google Etc with this very simple um organizational heris stick which was Zuckerberg said to his developers if you think your code is
[00:41:00] ready to ship just go live on the live site you better make sure you’ve tested the hell out of it uh but but then the the the developers had this unbelievable sense of empowerment and they were like wow the the trust he trusts us with this amazing and they were putting out features uh 10 times faster than Yahoo or Myspace or Google okay uh it comes down to organizational design the fact that in Google if you talk to Google employees today to try and get anything done there so much bureaucracy it’s taking forever to do that’s the thing that’s slowing it down I think he’s conflating those two things operating in a big company today means you have these control framework layers Etc and I’ve got all sorts of War Stories from Yahoo about this the the the reason Yahoo failed was Terry seml by accident put in a classic Matrix structure and manage the company um and that structure is great for uh um scaling and control but it’s terrible for taking risk and it’s terrible for Speed and if you’re on the consumer internet the two attributes you better have are speed and risk you look
[00:42:01] at Google and how much investment they put into Google Plus uh they had all the world’s top researchers the product is absolutely brilliant but all the internal hurdles of having to navigate should it connect with the YouTube ID system and whatever basically by the time they got through all of that Facebook was gone and so this is the issue I think is the internal organizational design much much more so than whe people coming in work I do I do agree with you there right agility agility always wins you know and and we’ve studied this to death in the EXO model right and I’ll just C out this little quick plug here we studied the Fortune 100 and said okay um how many of these use the EXO model or the attributes in the model like autonomous teams Community dashboards whatever um and we found that in the fortune Run 100 over a 7-year period the companies that followed the model the most delivered 40 times a shareholder returns and the companies that followed the model the
[00:43:00] least so really it comes down to the organizational design as a main heuristic for survival in the future in the and and this is where companies will end up following this structure because we now have so much proof the more of the model use the better you’ll do so I think I think the without realizing it Eric is commenting on the organizational structure of Google versus open AI being comprised of small teams that are just doing whatever the hell they want and the sad thing of course you know we and I discussed this with Eric when when he was with us at at uh at abundance last year at the abundance Summit was that Google had a massive lead right in AI uh ahead of everybody and was actually being respectful and careful and not putting it out before it was fully tested and then when uh when Sam Alman put out you know chat GPT it was like okay gloves are off you know put on the race sneakers let’s go and and to give them full credit they’ve responded
[00:44:01] incredibly well Gemini is amazing what it can do yeah I mean I don’t want to take anything away from Google I I they are the drut I would still never bet against them but uh they’re they’re they’ve got uh they’ve got real competition it’s the curse of being a big company the control Frameworks you have to put in place prevent you from being Nimble and today the name of the game is being Nimble uh for sure um let’s talk about this uh so uh our friend Imad mustak previously CEO of uh open of openi stability of stability puts out a paper uh called how to think about AI um and uh I did a podcast with him uh I think Imad is pretty damn brilliant um and uh it’s a great paper uh we’ll put the link in the show notes to this podcast that I think people uh should should read you know I’m just going to point out a few things uh he is still a believer that AI
[00:45:04] is going to be creating as many or more jobs than it’s going to steal um he talks about uh one of the ideas that was discussed on the on the stage at abundance last year of this AI Atlantis uh imagining new continent is created of a 100 million um AI researchers who work for a few electrons uh versus pizzas under the door uh and your ability to get access to intelligence and use it um is demonetizing and democratizing uh around the world I know you had a chance to look at this a little bit any comments about what imods uh thoughts are here um I I I’m in total accordance with almost everything that imod said uh I I’ve been on the soap box of AIS won’t take all the jobs very I’m very clear about that I finally have a decent rale around that by the way I’d like to hear that so I was on part of a kind of an a
[00:46:01] working group with Eric Bolson and a few others on AI and employment right and there was a really powerful framing that I’ve not forgotten and they said look a job is not just a job if you’re like a a customer service person uh it actually you take that let’s say you’re a financial adviser okay there’s different components of that that job that that can be broken down into a set of actual tasks uh and the task would be interface with the customer uh do some research um make investment decisions and act out on those investment decisions etc etc well an AI of say the 27 tasks that go into being a financial adviser might automate like 10 of them but it doesn’t automate the rest of them and so what happens is a job doesn’t you don’t lose the job you lose the tasks uh you automate the task which makes you more powerful and you spend more time on the other areas which is human interaction action and uh thinking about the future Etc and
[00:47:00] therefore the reason AIS don’t take all the jobs is they’re not covering the job they’re covering one specific task or other even even AGI only covers specific areas it’ll increase but more and more that’s why uh you will have Amplified jobs not job radical job loss except for the areas where you’re doing one thing at a time if you were in the industrial revolution a widget stamping a human widget stamping out things on an assembly that job went away because it was one thing so that’s my that I found was the best framing I’ve seen for why AI won’t take over all the jobs so listen I I do think that is the case today that AI can do 80% but not 100% of a job and therefore they’re freeing up people and and humans do the whole job with the support of AIS but I have 100% confidence that AI will get to a point where they can do 100% of the job and from everything I’ve seen what I
[00:48:03] used to think would be the hold out of humanity that interpersonal relationship the ability to be com uh compassionate and um and you know understanding and and patient and that human connection holy I’ve seen AIS do a much better job on that than than humans agree agree but I think there’s I I’ll take you back uh to the autonomous driving conversation right okay we had autonomous cars since the Google car in 2008 and we confidently predicted that in a decade you’d have more than 20% penetration of autonomous cars out in the world Etc and the answer the reason is that even in an autonomous car those little edge cases of a bicyclist overt taking another bicyclist and now you have to kind of go wider because of that or just avoiding potholes we can’t do there’s all these edge cases that we can’t cover 100% of because human beings
[00:49:02] are so good at adaptive uh physical intelligence that a human a robot driver can’t cover all of that and is very far away from that therefore we’re very far away from that domain I think we’re going to end up with the same par Paradigm around this however to your point I think what we’ll do is reframe what we mean by a job so that ASAS can take more and more of it and therefore the human being get squeezed over time there’s a lot um I really commend this paper to everybody you could listen to my podcast with emod on this subject but if you haven’t yet go and and and emod tweeted the whole paper on his thing so at emod if you want to go check it out yeah uh for for sure you just have to read it like four times to get your head around it uh but it’s but it’s beautifully written uh it’s beautifully written all right uh last subject on AI before we go to uh other fun subjects uh like neuralink and and robots uh I I added this because I I think one of the
[00:50:02] conversations that’s not sufficiently being discussed is the power requirements of AI so today the US has is generating about uh uh four uh ter terawatt hours per year of energy and if you look at energy I should have put the the chart on here but if you look at energy uh historically over the last 20 years and our current predicted growth in energy it’s pretty flat the US is not adding more capacity um at the rate that it should be uh China on the other side of the equation has blown through the US it’s like tripled its total capacity on its way to quadrupling its total capacity India’s been increasing and doubling um and there’s a uh there’s an estimate that by 2030 uh AI is going to require 100% of
[00:51:00] today’s US Energy grid production um AI is a very hungry beast and so we’re going to need some new sources of energy and uh uh the reason I added this is I think you know generation for nuclear is one of the most important Technologies that’s being held back by public opinion and regulation um I think it’s super safe and so China demonstrates first entirely meltdown proof nuclear reactor um that’s you know incredible it’s like why not have nuclear energy right we’re going to have Fusion eventually got it and solar is on the increase but Gen 4 nuclear that is fail safe meanings when it when it’s fail when it fails it’s safely contained I put this in my backyard how about you what are your thoughts here um I completely agree I think the whole small nuclear and um milk proof nuclear is the future uh to cover the Baseel
[00:52:01] load until we generate enough battery storage there were solar can take over and other things um I I think what I find powerful framing here is the same conversation that’s happened in Bitcoin where people go oh my God Bitcoin consumes the energy that Portugal uses and therefore we should shut it down and what’s happening is we’re finding all sorts of like for example if you have a hydroelectric dam in the far north of Quebec it takes so long long for the transmission thing you’ve lost the energy by the time you get it 10 you were useful therefore the dam the the hydroelectric dams that’s empty however now you can put a Bitcoin facility next to it and essentially turn that energy into something useful and about 6 months ago we cross 50% um Bitcoin mining by Renewables and the next marginal 50% will be just the next chunk will be all Renewables I think the same thing will happen with AI we’ll start putting AI d centers in thees or wherever
[00:53:00] they a month ago I was in Kazakhstan and there’s a there’s a valley in the east of Kazakhstan where the wind just flows and they’ve put a gigawatt Wind Farm there it’s so far it’s not that useful for anything but an AI Data Center and a Bitcoin mining thing beautiful so I think the when we think about the fact that we have what 8,000 times more energy hitting the Earth than we use we’ll just start tapping into that to do all this and power all the other stuff so I don’t worry about energy at all well I worry about it in the US if it becomes the limiting factor for the us being able to stay ahead in the energy and the AI race I also worry about it where if it’s easier for large companies to build coal plants or natural gas plants um because they’re not going to stop right this is an allout AI war and in Microsoft and Google and and meta they’re all all going to be uh just buying as much energy as they possibly
[00:54:00] can and uh if the answer because of Regulation and because of ease of paperwork is you know God forbid carbon producing then you got a problem I think the way the root commentary you’re making is the The Regulators in the US need to take a very bold move here wake up Regulators I think I think that’s absolutely correct everybody I want to take a short break from our episode to talk about a company that’s very important to me and could actually save your life or the life of someone that you love company is called Fountain life and it’s a company I started years ago with Tony Robbins and a group of very talented Physicians you know most of us don’t actually know what’s going on inside our body we’re all optimists until that day when you have a pain in your side you go to the physician or the emergency room and they say listen I’m sorry to tell you this but you have this stage three or four going on on and you know it didn’t start that morning it probably was a problem that’s been going
[00:55:01] on for some time but because we never look we don’t find out so what we built at Fountain life was the world’s most advanced diagnostic Centers we have four across the us today and we’re building 20 around the world these centers give you a full body MRI a brain a brain vasculature an AI enabled coronary CT looking for soft plaque a dexa scan a a gril blood cancer test a full executive blood workup it’s the most advanced workup you’ll ever receive 150 gigabytes of data that then go to our AIS and our physicians to find any disease at the very beginning when it’s solvable you’re going to find out eventually you might as well find out when you can take action Fountain life also has an entire side of the Therapeutics we look around the world for the most Advanced Therapeutics that can add 10 20 healthy years to your life and we provide them to you at our centers so if this is of
[00:56:00] interest to you please go and check it out go to Fountain life.com Peter when Tony and I wrote Our New York Times bestseller life force we had 30,000 people reached out to us for Fountain life memberships if you go to Fountain life.com Peter we’ll put you to the top of the list really it’s something that is um for me one of the most important things I offer my entire family the CEOs of my companies my friends it’s a chance to really add decades onto our healthy lifespans go to fountainlife decomp it’s one of the most important things I can offer to you as one of my listeners all right let’s go back to our episode all right let’s go to one of our favorite subjects and yours uh Bitcoin use um you know do you still I mean listen I remember you and I are on stage at an ex prise event uh a few months ago and like every other word was like buy Bitcoin buy Bitcoin now we’re not giving
[00:57:01] Financial advice but buy Bitcoin uh this one Morgan Stanley tells wealth advisers they can pitch Bitcoin ETFs in a first for a bank big Bank uh fascinating right I wanted my mom who’s 88 hi Mom good to see you um she watches our podcast here and I said like you know go tell your your uh you know investment advisor to buy this ETF I mean the ETFs were made so that it’s super easy to own Bitcoin and back when we were talking about this I don’t know when it was uh uh when I was talking to her about this eight months ago it was like no we can’t we can’t sell you that and like huh that’s so strange now it’s going to be pushed thoughts uh totally agree I give a I give a talk to one of the biggest financial planning groups in the world that has about 10,000 financial advisers I was saying so what’s your Bitcoin strategy and they’re like oh uh we don’t allow our financial advisors to talk
[00:58:01] about Bitcoin to their clients at all and the financial advisers are like are you kidding the our clients are asking us about Bitcoin and we’re not allowed to answer you’re killing us um why because the regulatory risk they have of they’re worried that if somebody gives Financial advice on bitcoin and it’s not an approved method of any kind by whatever they face legal exposure so they’ve shut down that conversation again going back to mindset and Regulatory similar to the nuclear conversation I think there’s an underlying driver here that just makes this inexurable which is the fact that Jeff Booth’s observation that um he wrote a book called the price of tomorrow that you should all go read and he in the book he basically shows that over the last 50 years every dollar increase in global GDP has come from a with a $ four increase in global debt so we’re growing the global economy with debt and you can’t it’s structural you can’t pay back you can’t just write it off soing thees end well it does not end
[00:59:00] well and look at the debt in the US right now we’re creating a trillion dollars of debt every hundred days or so um and we’re now paying more interest on the US debt um than we than the US spends on its military okay that is a pretty ridiculous comment and it’s not slowing down there’s no mechanism this is the problem with democracies there’s no mechanism to look down the line and go hey we got to stop doing this uh and so so this is a huge issue across parties and nobody’s looking at it you don’t hear it mentioned in the in the in the political debates at all and this is a massive problem the escape hatch between uh that world and the ETFs connecting to Bitcoin now gives a uh a kind of an atomic bomb lifeline and a shelter where people can escape through that into the Bitcoin World which is why we’re all so optimistic about Bitcoin uh the the recent drop by the way for people that are track in it there was a huge drop it turned out Germany sold a massive chunk at the same time that
[01:00:00] mount gaau was paying back a bunch of their folks and there so a huge amount of Bitcoin got liquidated this is the best buying opportunity ever I remember Michael sailor’s comment that you get Bitcoin at the price you deserve yes really and S you know I want to give you credit here because you’re on the stage I I can physic I just so in detail remember you at our uh Singularity executive program uh 2012 uh thereabouts you’re on stage to the to the room you know I just gotten off talking about 6ds or whatever and you step on you say have you heard about this thing called Bitcoin and you start talking about Bitcoin I’m going what the hell is this Bitcoin you know we we have um uh it’s important to look back at the history here just for a second when Bitcoin came out in 2009 a lot of people kind of just ignored it even though they were deeply um excited about digital currencies why because there had been so
[01:01:00] many attempts in the past that had failed right yeah and so they everybody watched for a while myself included uh I’ve watched Bitcoin go from 5 cents of Bitcoin to 50 cents of Bitcoin to $5 of Bitcoin to $50 of Bitcoin and how how much higher could it possibly go yeah and then at $500 of Bitcoin it’s a hard emotional choice to make when you knew it was 5 cents Bitcoin that’s a really big thing to cross and I remember finally buying a few at that at that level um the the uh there are two types of people that come up to me from those days the ones that listened and bought Bitcoin and they’re hugely grateful and the ones are like I wish I’d listened and bought Bitcoin and it’s completely binary around that so I think there’s there’s this is just one of those things where you I think the way Michael sailor put it was really best he said go spend 100 hours researching Bitcoin and then if you don’t like it come back to me with some Salient points and we’ll have a conversation yeah so and nobody does you know it’s
[01:02:00] interesting I look at one of my largest Holdings um if not the largest uh holding outside of of real estate is is Bitcoin and so when it drops from $70,000 to $50,000 you know the first reaction of the amydala and the animal brain is holy run and hide right and and there’s got to be a judo move here for those who are Bitcoin Believers to say oh my God time to buy right and so sailor is there and um you know I think I’m there at this point too uh you know I was a great there’s a great meme um uh of a cartoon where someone said you know Dad was it true that Bitcoin was below $100,000 in your day you know that’s that’s wonderful yeah I actually look forward with Glee when it drops because I’m thinking oh I could buy some more I just told many spare cash to do that but but I do get this burst of oh my God I wish I could buy some more so the big news
[01:03:01] here has been uh a conversation by at least two of the three presidential candidates about the idea of holding Bitcoin in treasury of the United States let alone what micro strategies is doing is putting Bitcoin in treasury for its stock which has played incredibly well right micro strategies is you know one of the top performing stocks in the S&P um do you know so we’ve talked about this right the 6ds you know when you digitize something uh it’s deceptive and then disruptive it dematerializes demonetizes democratizes and uh the phases of Bitcoin it went from the early entrepreneur to you know uh high-end entrepreneurs uh to institutions and you know will we see governments uh so what’s your prediction on when a we’re seeing governments right now but when the US might do this I think I don’t know about the US just
[01:04:01] because the the the US dollar is so fundamentally important to us hegemony around the world that making a major move in Bitcoin would would have a huge impact on the dollar so maybe stabilizing it uh maybe maybe people have confidence that I think it’s one powerful way for the US to deal with its debt is to just hedge it but if I was the US I’d do it quite not talk about it because that and that’s what I think is happening right now I think what’s happening is you you have to recognize that after micro strategies and after El Salvador took on bitcoin as its Reserve currency that every CFO in the world of a public company and every uh um a sovereign wealth fund is looking at this going ha I need to be thinking that taking that into account and for those of us that are bullish on bitcoin if 1% of the fortune 1000 put 1% % of their treasury into Bitcoin that would make it the same price of as the price of gold
[01:05:00] which is roughly a million dollars of Bitcoin so yeah if you do the math the more the adoption takes place and note that in 15 years now people have not figure out a way of hacking Bitcoin right um the Satoshi wallet has $60 billion worth of bitcoin and you got to see that you think there’s a lot of people trying to get into that wallet and nobody’s Managed IT yeah there’s you it’s it’s the greatest treasure hunt ever um I I I don’t think it’s any technology risk uh and I’m you know at 99.99% shity but the only question becomes is there political risk right I remember having a conversation with an a minister from a foreign Nation having dinner with I wouldn’t say who it was and they’re like your government really wants to shut down Bitcoin I mean in terms of this current Administration right so we have gentler and all of that I want talk more about it but um uh I I can answer that very easily please it goes back to if you shut down
[01:06:01] bitco you know when I send you Bitcoin I’m sending you a string of text and numbers how you interpret that string of text and numbers have be is up to you so it turns out in the US specifically Bitcoin is protected by First Amendment there’s a strong legal case around this there’s a great anecdote around pgp if you know that story yeah right should I recount that for folks uh up to you I mean it’s really it’s really important one especially if you think of Bitcoin in the US so pretty good privacy was an Email encryption that was invented in the in the late ’90s if I remember it right and um the US uh Department of Defense desperately tried to stop the propagation of pgp into the world because then they wouldn’t be able to read emails globally um which of course they wanted to do um and the pgp creators were like well everybody should have this why should it just be restricted this so the dod put a a full restriction saying itar regulations you are absolutely forbidden to export those so they looked at and said H okay what do we do so what they did was they printed the source code for pgp on piece
[01:07:01] onto paper faxed it to the UK which then ocred the code and were able to recreate Bitcoin Department of Defense took them to court and and the court said First Amendment pal you can’t stop people from excting opinion so there’s a really strong precedent on First Amendment and then property rights anywhere that has property rights you cannot stop Bitcoin from propagating so there’s some very compelling argum arguments to especially in the US but globally anywhere where you have property rights of any reasonable level you won’t be able to stop it you’re trying to slow it down onramps off ramps Etc but they’re not going to be able to stop it I just did a a great another podcast with B Bill baright uh the head of Abra um which again people go listen to it it’s that’s you know how where I hold my Bitcoin where do you hold your Bitcoin right now uh I do self uh stodal on a stick and a few other metrics does you like does you do you pucker really hard when you pull
[01:08:00] out that stick to go and do something with it well it’s it’s really what you do with the keywords and how do you secure those yeah because the stick is is thing but you know this is this is the great thing about capitalism right safe custodial models like Abra will appear and people move to the swan is another one that’s really good at this so there’ll be a whole bunch of there’s so much economic incentive for helping people with that problem the equivalent of a digital uh Bank safety deposit box is a really powerful one do you want to give your nonfinancial advice that you gave at X prise here which was oh uh non-financial advice would be take 10% of your of your net worth uh at the minimum and put it into Bitcoin and close your eyes for 10 years if you can is it true that you pulled out a morgage on your house and bought bought Bitcoin well we sold a house yeah and my condition with Lily to selling the house so I want to be able to put a big chunk of that into Bitcoin so uh Bitcoin is
[01:09:02] almost about the equivalent of my real estate holdings yeah all right uh I’m excited for us to keep this conversation in future months let’s talk about neurolink news um Elon has his second implant uh and it talks about human AI coms and this is one of the conversations that took place a little bit at at abundance the past year is about the idea that if Ai and humans are going to link up or will AI take off without humans let’s listen to uh to Elon for a moment the long-term aspiration of neuralink is to improve the AI human symbiosis um by increasing the the bandwidth of the communication because if even if in the most benign scenario of AI you have to consider that the a is simply going to get bored waiting for you to sped out a
[01:10:01] few Woods I mean if the AI can communicate at terabits per second and you’re communicating at you know bits per second it’s like to to a tree okay so first of all if we can communicate at you know at kilobits per second or megabits per second and it’s communicating at terabits per second and still can get a board um do you remember the movie her I just rewatched it and there’s a point at which the uh uh the star of the movie is talking to uh to his Ai and uh he finally gets the idea that it’s not a monogamous relationship and he goes how many people are you talking to right now and she goes um 8,736 or something like that and I find that fascinating well this is the whole bandwidth issue right I think that movie if you haven’t watched the movie Her R please do go do go watch it is probably the best framing we’ve seen on The
[01:11:00] Realistic outcome of AI uh CU Hollywood tends to always portray it as the Matrix the Terminator uh the the whatever and the robot overlords trick over the world and if you’re lucky you’re pets and if we’re unlucky we’re food it always goes that way and but the reality is much more likely that an AI evolves so quickly past us they look at us as ants and go you know you’re a little one liter brain in your head vitalic accepted is not just not interesting enough to to talk to I’m talking to millions of AIS in par it takes off it goes have a nice life nice life thanks for all the fish thanks for all the fish and I think that’s the most likely outcome which I’m kind of okay with you know if that’s the progression of Life uh that’s kind of okay but I think what Elon is doing around this is really really important and the the next conversation around bandwidth is critical yeah I mean right now we communicate uh when you and I are
[01:12:00] speaking um what what is it bits per uh per second is it is it per second BPS yeah no I know but it’s like is it 40 bits second single digits I mean four bits per second yeah it’s it’s not a lot and and you think about the megabits and gigabits that we have on our networks there’s no comparison yeah so uh here we go uh think about this you’re typing on a keyboard right I mean is literally that’s about as fast as we can do it is there’s not a lot of bits per second um and it’s shockingly slow uh let’s hear Elon about uh making it faster years it’s going to be gigantic um because we’ll increase the number of electrodes dramatically um we’ll improve the signal processing so you know we with with uh even with only roughly I don’t know 10 15% of the electrodes working with uh with Nolan with our first patient we were able to get to achieve a bits per
[01:13:02] second that’s twice the world record so I think we’ll we’ll we’ll start like vastly exceeding the world record by orders of magnitude in the years come so it’s like getting to I don’t know 100 bits per second th you know maybe maybe if like 5 years from now we might be at a megabit like faster than any human could possibly communicate uh by typing speaking um obviously if we I find that compelling right I mean I want as much possible uh so let me ask you the question here selem um they open up neural links to the general public uh are you are you like get me one baby as soon as possible no um you’re not no I I’ll tell you why so I go back to the so I’ll tell you why I’m incredbly excited about this and why I’m like okay come on let’s they don’t have to even shave your head they could just go straight
[01:14:02] in um the the USB port on the side of the head is you know that’s that kind of old dream I think the the reason that it requires physical intervention is a tough one because our phones evolve much faster than any implant would evolve if you put it in right so there’s that uh you’d have to have this like deep thing going into your brain which is fine once it gets to I just don’t want to be the first test subject in that in that model but I didn’t say test subject I said it’s you know the FDA has approved it it’s commercially available now are you going to get one I I would wait a little I’m always weirdly I’m a late adopter in new hack new technologies I’m always two two phones behind everybody else just because I’m I’m I use it so materially that I can’t afford to be at the bleeding edge and have some stuff work or lose things Etc so that’s just me personally but the I think why I’m excited and why I’m eh on this I I’m incredibly excited at the general conversation of increasing output of the human brain that’s a really powerful
[01:15:01] Framing and I think it’s I love the first principal thinking that Elon brings to the table on any of these conversations that brings everybody’s thinking up to that level and then you have to think in that way and the fact that he’s without realizing it coaching tens of millions of entrepreneurs around the world to think in this way because he does is incredibly exciting for the future here’s where I get a little bit more if you think about it he he kind of makes this comment in this clip that we put out x amount of roughly a bit per per second is the our output if you average it across the day but you know we just talked about why in person is so important because when you’re in person face to face with some there’s a ton more happening than just my communication patterns back and forth there’s the pheromones we’re putting out there’s our body language there’s visual cues there’s all sorts of verbal tonality that goes along there’s a ton of band occurring between two people uh on a conversation much much more than just
[01:16:00] the pure bits per second being output by the brain but you know you know as well as I do that all of that information is being converted to neuronal signals it is and your brain is only able to process a small number so as we’re having this conversation you know there’s traffic noise going on outside there’s air conditioning comes on and we don’t notice that because I’m focused on the wisdom that s missil is is is uh speaking to me about right now yes um and so there’s no there’s no reason why uh in fact in AI can actually pay attention to all of it agree do pre pre-processing and share with me the most inform important information because I’m ignoring 99.9% of the information coming to me right now and I I have an atttention focus on what I think is important and it may not actually be important or there may be other important information that I’m missing
[01:17:00] my my point is that we have all sorts of mechanisms to do that for us in many cases so I’ll give you a small example um you and I both follow a few thousand people on Twitter or X and then those folks we found curate the information out on the web and news stories and breaking Tech news in a powerful way and that pre it’s that’s a pre-processing it filters down for us right so we do a pretty good job of that an AI would do an incrementally better job but not a game-changing better job at that um if I’m sitting in front of a person all the signals that I get are are useful about the world but it’s not you know the the fact that in might be able to look at the signals of 10,000 people in a room in a big conference and get some sense of that uh but it’s not probably going to affect my decision making on a moment by moment basis right where I think I let me flip it around tell you why I’m excited if you can increase the bandwidth levels and then have brains interfacing more powerfully the
[01:18:01] potential I think it’ll reshape our brains unbelievably powerfully is a mechanism for we need a if I had to wave a wand and fix a Human Being Human Beings globally as a species I would basically find a way of cutting out the amydala right you talk about this it’s it’s constantly scanning for bad news and danger and it takes over the rest of the brain and floods it with cortisol every time it perceives that it’s a completely useless device for today’s world because the amount of time we’re in actual physical danger is seconds out of a year and so let let me give you a broad so much potential to that if we have the ability to to to interact with high brandwidth we could actually then emphasize the neocortex and and of of more processing power at a rational level and diminish the impact of the of the the the igdal on us so R so I agree with you and we can go broader than that right the amydala is just your negativity bias where you pay more
[01:19:01] attention 10 times more attention negative news and positive news but we have all these other cognitive biases right there’s a familiarity bias there is a recency bias all of these things it’s like we suffer from positivity bias we we do we do though I think that’s unbiased but that’s a different story um but imagine you’re having AI That’s able to uh to tell you listen um that that’s not actually true um you have this piece of information from 6 months ago which counter veils that and let me bring that forward so in other words uh you know human bias alert we can call it alert but human bias alert I think AI could play an incredibly good role because the reason we have cognitive biases is because the human brain cannot process all the information being thrown at it so we we take these shortcuts yeah okay so a visual is coming to me okay okay imagine I have a a headset display
[01:20:01] and I’m walk around the world doing whatever and I’m buying a a a a bar of chocolate and an AI is scanning my brain and proly bringing out these are the biases you’re operating under right now these the cognitive biases that are forcing and just having that feedback loop of knowing what biases are I play at any given point would be incredibly powerful and give me a feedback loop because this is where I think things become really exciting is the recursive feedback loop when you know what you’re thinking and why you’re thinking something that allows you then to reshape how you’re thinking this is the whole basis behind and and but we’re so limited right now by this you know you know two and a half kilogram you know unit above 14 watts of power I just I just can’t wait to uh to plug in and expand beyond that but you know that’s me I I’m going to throw one more little thing in this okay okay you know just just you know I’ve done a lot of mindfulness meditation VNA where you sit and you just be aware of what’s happening in
[01:21:00] your body just imagine that I could be fully aware of all the activity in every cell in my hands right now and I could be fully cognizant the excitment and energy around every cell in your body which has its own many many sub universes 40 trillion cells a billion chemical reactions per second just that is a profound thought in terms of could I just contemplate that more profound L forget interfaces elsewhere etc etc so there’s unbelievable without psychedelic drugs they give us a shortcut to what’s possible and I think there’s the the ability to contemplate a broader with broader bandwidth The Unbelievable reality we live in is amazing all right let’s go to Elon again on uh on patients outperforming Gamers we feel pretty confident that um I think maybe within the next year or two that someone with a neuralink implant will be able to outperform um a
[01:22:01] Pro Gamer nice uh because the reaction time would be faster you know uh what’s fascinating I remember when I did a uh a long form conversation with Elon after we announced the $100 million uh musk carbon prize I was asking him about the first neuralink patient which was a chimp um a m you know was it was chimpanzee um called pager and it was playing pong and uh I said did you play against pager and he said yes and I said who won uh and uh I think Pedro won but I think Elon may have said he did I don’t know well uh but it’s fascinating uh that we’re going to get there you know the Olympics are looking at Esports as an Olympic game um and we’re going to you know question is you be able to be enhanced when you’re playing those games I that will be that’ll be fascinating I
[01:23:00] mean this is a long Trend right which I think you know we have really good evidence today that the best leadership skills in the world are taught if you play World of Warcraft so do you let your son play World of Warcraft not yet because he’s I think he’s too young and he probably plays that stuff with he plays half of that stuff without telling me anyway um the but I think the opportunity to really really develop uh powerful skill deep human skills using this capability is massive I you know when you talk about AI beating uh the pro Gamers Etc that’s great but we’ve seen that in chess right and we know the outcome what happens it it just Chang the difference here is you know again directly from from the neocortex and and these are a lot of these are twitch games a lot of these are Reaction Time games right and so when the reaction time is minimized um because you’re going straight you know input output I mean it’s you know I
[01:24:01] I I don’t know is that cheating um it is to some extent it’s just doing things better and differently Gamers spend a ton of money buying a like a mouse that is connected directly into the motherboard so that they have that few micro seconds Advantage um uh uh for me it’s eh for a lot of this but the the general concept of interacting with the the brain and having a broader bandwidth to process do signal processing is incredible here’s our last slide here and I think this is the numbers folks take away uh so prior to neuralink the world record for a human using a device is somewhere around 4.2 to 4.6 bits per second um Nolan is at 8.5 and we heard Elon in the previous video talk about going to megabit you know when I think about the notion that there’s nothing more important um for a company or for a nation than it’s cumulative
[01:25:00] intelligence um right the ability of a company to uh perform its Mission um is a function of you know per capita intelligence I think maybe you disagree with that I disagree with that okay tell me where you come from I I’m going to bring out my EXO bias here a huge amount has to do with how it’s organized right if you have all of the most power let assume they’re organized identical but one group is more intelligent than the other yeah of course that’s going to do better but but the better organization always beats bandwidth um and brain power but okay but both been given a choice take both here you can you can do both but I think there’s so much uh mileage to be gained by just organizing better and not being top down uh command controlled slow decision- making that’s what limits intelligence the for example the basic intelligence in any institution take the nuclear
[01:26:01] energy discussion we were having earlier the that limitation is not a function of intelligence it’s a function of the ability to execute and recognize we need a different framework for doing something and operating from a different model in a different framework it’s the changing of models that’s hard you just made my point right which is you know intelligence and Regulators different different conversation Different Page different motivations it’s an it’s an it’s it’s a motivational alignment problem more than anything else did you see the movie Oppenheimer if you did did you know that besides building the atomic bomb at Los Alamos National Labs that they spent billions on biod defense weapons the ability to accurately detect viruses and microbes by reading their RNA well a company called viome exclusively licensed the technology from Los Alamos labs to build a platform that can measure your microbiome and the RNA in your blood now viome has a product that I’ve personally
[01:27:01] used for years called full body intelligence which collects a few drops of your blood spit and stool and can tell you so much about your health they’ve tested over 700,000 individuals and use their AI models to deliver members critical Health guidance like what foods you should eat what foods you shouldn’t eat as well as your supplements and probiotics your biological age and other deep health insights and the results of the recommendations are nothing short of Stellar you know as reported in the American Journal of Lifestyle medicine after just 6 months of following biomes recommendations members reported the following a 36% reduction in depression a 40% reduction in anxiety a 30% reduction in diabetes and a 48% reduction in IBS listen I’ve been using viome for 3 years I know that my oral and gut health is one of my highest priorities best of all viome is Affordable which is part of my mission to democratize health
[01:28:00] if you want to join me on this journey go to vi.com Peter I’ve asked naven Jane a friend of mine who’s the founder and CEO of viome to give my listeners a special discount you’ll find it at vom.com Peter let’s talk about robotic news next have we jump into that all right let’s go to robot all right so um so we’re seeing a lot uh in the world uh if I think about the robotics right now we talked about this uh again at the at the abon summit there are like 30 well-funded humanoid robot companies on the planet um Optimus and figure are you know Tesla their robots called Optimus and figure Brett adcock’s company um just release figure 2 we’ll talk about that in a minute are the top two in the US and there’s a whole bunch in China because China needs um robots um let’s listen to a quick note from from Elon on the numbers the size of the market and then we’ll talk about uh this in more detail
[01:29:02] the The Optimist numbers are like they’re really just they’re like so mind-blowing that you’re like is this is this real but because I I actually think the market for humanoid robots is in excess of 10 billion units like more more than the number of humans um because people will each want one and then there’ll be others that are involved in industry and stuff so if they do sell for $220,000 uh that’s $200 trillion this is just a insane insane number that’s why I like I wonder what does money even mean at that point you know what does money even mean at that point so so uh selem um uh the numbers here to reflect on uh and I I got these exact same numbers from Brett Adcock when I did a podcast with him recently uh $20,000 a unit that’s what the price sort of converges on and uh that’s like $100 a month if you’re going to lease it
[01:30:01] and uh you know 10 billion of them in the world well I think again have I like going to the extremes and just considering both sides of this I think at one level it’s incredibly exciting the best Framing and um metaphor of robots comes from the AI conversation with emod where he goes when you have a bunch of if you’re the head chef and you have a bunch of Sue chefs organizing everything before you you become way more creative you execute way faster cuz like in right now if I had an a sue Chef AI in the kitchen and I want to make a really complicated Indian recipe um uh I like I spent a huge amount of time Gathering all the freaking ingredients just that would be a huge Game Changer in terms of my ability to be a great chef right so I think this is where robots are able to do amazing things uh over time um I I but I think the entire economics numbers become irrelevant just because the change in productivity is
[01:31:00] such a GameChanger none of our numbers in terms of GDP or something can match what’s economics economics are so broken right I mean a GDP uh is a function of the number of people working and the amount of technology and the amount of energy they have access to and all those things and all those things are you know infinitely it’s worse than it’s worse than it’s it’s actually terrible because it doesn’t take account deflation so if I we spend half a million dollars per breast cancer patient in the US on average right if you have the ability to detect wax cancer early and save all those lives GDP actually goes down so that’s not a great GDP is a terrible metric for success of the human race in the future it’s just the best one we’ve come up with that’s easily measurable uh for the future so this is an important point where technology becomes deflationary and we have to navigate that for the future but that’s again a whole other conversation I’m going to play this in the background as we’re talking about this is uh figure
[01:32:00] two from uh from a company called Figure AI uh and you know I went and visited his plant and uh and on the podcast with Brett he shows us a little bit inside and it’s it’s a beautiful uh robot I actually saw uh designs for figure three as well which take this yet to another level of of view um and I don’t know I I think that uh uh we’re going to see these every place um uh and and so you know we’ve had the argument about you said why do they have to look like humans I think they’re going to look like humans because that’s the world we live in and they are multi-purpose and you know was my conversation with Brett who you know he just raised like $700 million um uh from open Ai and Microsoft and Nvidia and Jeff Bezos and Incredibly you know what
[01:33:01] makes this possible is the multimodal AI where you’re going to just talk to robots and tell them to go do things for you H he made a he made a point let me make one other thing he made a point that I think is really important and I would love your your reflection on this the point that Brett made was listen as we head towards AGI or digital super intelligence we need robots otherwise these AIS are going to be asking us to do their bidding and that’s going a pretty pretty depressing future uh okay so very valid point I still sit on the uh cautious and pessimistic side on this going back to the autonomous driving mode I’ll give you one other triangulation on that which is the Roomba vacuum cleaner robot um people we you know everybody got really excited about those and they’re terrible because you have to move everything for you for the robot and now you’re doing the work of the robot which
[01:34:00] is exactly the point that you just made right everything you do is servicing so the robot can do and you spend more time rearranging the room so the robot can do its thing than if you just vacuum the place in the first place but these humanoid robots will will yeah the vacuum cleaner but I think that that those small nuances will take a lot longer to to to work in there than we think we’re going get really excited about this by the way way is the hive mind capability that these robots that I think will be very exciting yeah I’m going to skip the Nvidia uh robot slide other than to say you know every company out there is in some way shape or form uh looking at working with with robotics open ai’s got other projects uh Google’s got its projects and we’re going to see robots you know I just tweeted um that um damn it I posted not tweeted I posted um give me a damn verb Elon please I I I
[01:35:01] posted that uh CES this year uh we’re going to see a ton of robots but everything is going to be talking to you right everything is going to be generative AI enabled they can see you and talk to you and that’s going to be just you know sort of uh Improvement dour at CES this year I think it’ll be hugely amazing I I’m if there there’s not often I kind of feel tempted to go to the chaos in Jungle that is CES but this might be a year to go yeah amazing we’ll go to our last subject here which is biotech and other cool stuff uh this was a um article that came out um and uh there’s a particular uh uh genetic variation that was found um that increased lifespan in mice um and by 25% and uh I think what makes this interesting is it’s actually in human trials as well I I think what I
[01:36:00] want to point out by this slide is that we’re we’re continuing to find things that are extending human lifespan or extending uh mamalian lifespan uh and that uh we’re just at the beginning of this journey uh it’s still early games here how long do you want to live how long do I want to live uh you know I’m I uh I’ve there’s a big metaphysical conversation that we don’t want to get into here about um living forever etc etc I I think the best framing is uh having a great health span which you talk about a lot right is that’s a really important one because having a a a vibrant life as opposed to just a long life is really really a key success factor um I think the world is so godamn amazing I would like to be around for a while long enough to see this massive transition that we’re going through which um you know I I say this often I
[01:37:01] think the next 30 Years is going to drive the next several centuries of human Humanity I think it’s and how do we navigate The Mad Max versus Star Trek Futures that we have uh is going to be really really uh interesting and critical and it’s just we you know goes back to your comment about we must be in a simulation because it’s too just too goddamn interesting today to be around mean we’re at the 99th level of the game I mean to look at it that way right it’s like it would the the we are about to evolve into something new it’s like that line from 2001 to Space Odyssey which I can’t remember but uh but it’s like you know the future is just unbelievably on inspiring it’s the singularity by the way can I ask you a cool question I know Ray keeps on holding to the singularity date of like 2045 I mean that seems like really if we’ve got like digital super intelligence by 2030 don’t you think it’s going to move a little faster than
[01:38:00] 2045 you know what’s up with that I’m right now plowing through the singularity as nearer yeah I just finished it um and what I’m struck by as far as I’ve got into it is a The Unbelievable pressence of his commentary from 20 30 40 50 years ago this just blows your mind um who is this man I mean he can’t be human to be making these kind of comments uh that’s one observation the second observation is I notice he changes what the singular ideas to talk about more as a metaphor than a real thing which I think is the right way of framing it it’s a great metaphor for the fact that we just can’t predict past a certain Event Horizon and let’s just live with the fact that we can’t predict but in that in that Cas we have we have serial singularities oh I always we always talked about this at Singularity University where there’s there’s non-stop small s’s happening all the time the iPhone arriving was a singularity right uh Bitcoin was a
[01:39:01] singularity other words that you couldn’t predict call it you couldn’t predict U you call it asteroid impacts I call it Gutenberg moments there’s black swans there’s just an increasing frequency of those happening at an at a at a ridiculous level that’s going to just change everything we do and how we do it um going forward and the ability to absorb that in on it and then make sense of it is the biggest intelligence quotient we’re going to need we’re going to have to have over the next decade and two yep I agreed but I mean I think of a a AI Singularity uh coming where I can’t predict what’s coming after a I think that’s already there in my open EXO world we have a subc community of about 600 folks focused just on AI and they meet weekly just to try and process what happened this week in Ai and and try and make sense of it I mean it’s just it’s
[01:40:00] the I would say that we’ve hit the singularity already in AI the pace of Chang is faster than we can even talk about it or recognize it and and make sense of it yep I I I get it all right let’s go on um I think one of our last slides here uh life bio is a company that David Sinclair had started and you know David made history when he showed that epigenetic reprogramming using three out of the four yamanaka factors was able to bring back um the uh earlier state of Youth of cells in particular it was in the optic nerve uh this is uh uh Dr Sharon I’m not going to uh Rosen weig Lipson uh who’s the chief science officer uh for life bio at at for David’s company let’s quick take a quick listen here what we’re doing is we’re building on the work of Dr David Sinclair where he
[01:41:01] identified that you only need three of the amanaka factors A4 sock 2 and kf4 which allows you to not take a all the way back to a stem cell state but rather to make a more youthful version of itself so we do it in a in our version of it is an er100 so er100 is a two Vector system okay so we have two vectors and it allows us to use a Teton docs inducible system short short form it means we can control it hoping to be in the clinic in 2025 so the the point here which is pretty amazing is that in the clinic means for humans and we’re using epigenetic re you know age reversal in humans in particular I think they’re going to be doing it for uh for a number of uh eye related diseases and blindness reversal but they’re in primates right now and it’s working um and I just want
[01:42:02] people to get excited about the future in terms of uh you know age slowing stopping perhaps reversing aging and God knows there’s a lot of implications I the broader implications you know what do we do with pension plans and unemployment benefits you know all that stuff is is is kind of struct the structural changes just coming from Life Extension or or un unbelievable uh but I’m really really excited about this I know you spend a huge amount of your time now on the longevity stuff and and you’re kind of doing an unbelievable job of popularizing it and and getting people used to the conversation right I think that’s the hard the key part this is you want to talk about singularities uh breaking through the Aging stuff is something that we’ve not really been able to do as a human species in any really meaningful way for our entire 4 billion year history of Earth and now all of a sudden we’re hitting this point where we can completely change the game of biology it’s amazing yeah all right
[01:43:03] last subject here for today Life on Mars so uh uh we saw some data come back from NASA’s uh perseverance Rover uh which is you know cruising around getting data what it did was it found a particular rock that in that rock uh were three elements that were critical first it found water in the Rock second um it found organic compounds that were part of life and precursors and then it found evidence for chemical energy sources in the Rock and when you have those three things together uh typically that spells life I just saw this morning an article that uh that they also found liquid water on the surface of Mars so you know I’m excited about two three things number one the notion that I think there is life on Mars today um it’s microbial it’s subsurface uh it’s in the permafrost in
[01:44:02] the water um and just finding life on another planet just changes everything the second thing is go ahead the second thing is going to be interesting is there is a theory that because Mars cooled first because it’s further from the Sun uh that life evolved on Mars first and there’s an exchange of material between Mars and Earth as asteroids um strike the Martian surface the ejecta reaches escape velocity and so it’s going to be interesting if we find Life on Mars and compare it to life on Earth did it originate on Mars first um and then there’s the whole panspermia model which is life you know evolved elsewhere in the universe and it’s just floating through space and it seeds planets as it intersects all right now over your wisdom well I mean there’s no question in my mind of the pens spermia model being the real one because
[01:45:01] we found tardigrades can survive in space where they should there’s absolutely no reason that that um a life form should be able to survive in space if it originated in Earth and yet here we have them so this it’s pretty clear that life has evolved and many many many many places it goes to the whole um Drake Equation which we don’t need to get into right now but if you want to check out but the the the reality of uh life being pervasive around the earth it the only then question is what how do we answer the FY Paradox which I think we have a reasonably good uh response F Paradox is being there must be life all over the goddamn Universe why haven’t we seen aliens where the hell are they why they come to why Haven they brought me home yet and the best model the answer I’ve heard is the transcension hypothesis by John smart you get to Virtual Tech reality technology and you can simulate anything so you go inward rather than trying to go outward cuz it’s just too hard physically to go outward I do that reality this is not
[01:46:01] surprising I’m just thankful that we’ve actually found it so that we can shut down all the religious idiots sorry just to be clear that article doesn’t say we found we found the precursors for it I know but but one of the big questions in everybody thing is where’s the primordial oo that we think we’ve seen and here we have it on another planet so little by little we’re filling in the gaps of how life Titan gamed Europa you know the moons around Jupiter and Saturn are likely to have even more advanced life you know what’s what’s fun is we’re alive during this period of time right um Starship you know Starship flight five is going to be going up soon can’t wait for us to talk about that in our next our next podcast conversation and it is going to bring people you know 100 people to the surface of moon and Mars um and take us out to the other planets it’s going to be the you know the whatever you want to call it uh what was the trend what was the most important like the 707 of
[01:47:02] aircraft right that became the KC 135 tankers and really first transatlantic really widebody jet it’s going to allow us to go there and uh and we’re going to find out and it’s I’m going to do a final plug here for X prise because notice that you’re you know you created xprize because you noticed that uh Lindberg crossed the Atlantic and all the teams competing developed ancillary technologies that created the commercial aviation industry right and boom you put a honey putt down in in for the space world and now we have a close to a trillion dollar space industry and we’re doing that non-stop across the board so the future is so so exciting it it is and and I didn’t mention in the beginning selem uh Sim is also a member of our board of directors of the x prise foundation he’s Godfather to my two kids I’m going to add your your additional uh uh anyway I love you so so much buddy uh and this was a fun conversation I really en super important and and I want to debate hotly some of the other topics we’ll do we’ll do that
[01:48:00] next time yeah U and if you’re enjoying these conversations with s and myself please subscribe let us know I’d like to do this you know once a month where s and I get together and and argue and disagree on all of these things Sim where do people find you and and your companies uh atmail uh is on on X Twitter and open xo.com yeah all right buddy right you’re you’re off on vacation I’m off to Indonesia and India family stuff and then back uh in a couple of weeks you must be a god when you land in India I mean I’m you know you’re Indian and I’m sure I try and hide actually because I’m scared that once people see that that they’ll steal my passport and I won’t be able to get out to keep you there so all right be well take care take care [Music]