it’s clear we’re going through the biggest inflection point in the history of humanity AI is more important than electricity or fire yeah do you agree no you don’t no um Ry in 1999 writes in his book we’re going to achieve human level AI in 2029 we’re in a world today where you can do permissionless disruptive innovation for the first time in the history of mankind one of the limitations we humans have is we don’t know how to think about something other than the way we had to think about it so I think this is an area where there’s a massive opportunity a singularity is like a moment in time where the speed of change is so fast they have no clue what’s happening right after that we’re hitting the boundaries and the edge conditions of reality itself in so many different ways it’s just so goddamn interesting to be around and this is why the kind of the whether we hit AGI or not for me is like a a trivial conversation
[00:01:01] welcome everybody Welcome to moonshots Peter D mandis here and I’m here with a special guest who’s going to be a regular guest he is one of the most brilliant I would dare say handsome technologist on the planet uh he Saleem Ismael uh selem is the CEO of open EXO he’s my co-author of exponential organizations he’s a trustee of the exerprise foundation he was the first president of Singularity University and he and I go way back Godfather to my two boys and actually one of the people who who I guess abundant exponential thinking matches mind so every month we’re getting together to talk about like WTF just happen in technology that’s why I Nam this episode uh and Saleem welcome great to be here yeah so listen pal I mean when you and I were on stage at singularity in the earliest years right so uh you Ray and I announc it we launch it at Ted we’re on stage in Silicon Valley we’ve got Executives and grad students uh from around the world
[00:02:00] coming in and Singularity is like the place you go to learn about all these exponential Technologies and how they’re converging and it was at a glacial Pace back back then yeah compared to what it is now yeah I mean it’s you know I remember this statistic we used to run the IP which had 80 CEOs of big partners program partners program so you had in the room the CEOs of caterpillar and credit SS and uh Dow Chemical etc etc and we asked them beforehand how aware are you of some of these breakthroughs and 75% had no idea at the end we said at the end of the four days we said okay how much how big of an impact will this have and when will this have a game-changing impact on your industry yes and 75% said within 2 years and 100% within 5 years and all of them had urgent action items when they got back to the office so that was the Gap people have no idea of the technology breakthroughs and then when you realize it there’s this oh moment and now you have to do something and it’s it’s not an option
[00:03:01] it’s just it’s going to disrupt the world and I think I think people are realizing like no this is impacting me now yeah and I’m behind you know even then though back in like say 10 years ago this was a hard conversation because there was nothing around you visible to to associate it with right 10 years ago I was talking to the exacts at BMW and they refused to acknowledge that the Tesla could be disruptive like completely refused um and you know you take the the electric car the way it is and the market cap the way it is between that and AGI is just such much a much easier conversation now people know they’re going to be disrupted and what do you do now is the question which is at least a much easier conversation and and the speed and the capital flow I was on a call this morning I’m in the middle of finalizing the abundance 360 Summit uh faculty and we’re going very deep in Ai and I was on the call with the CEO of one of the you know top five AI companies and um he’s just like spinning spinning and I said are you raising
[00:04:01] capital and he goes yes yeah we’re going to be raising you know3 or4 billion doar and I said well what’s your minimum he goes probably 100 million yeah you know I mean it’s like it’s like yeah we’re turning down 25 and $50 million checks it’s like insane yeah and I mean that’s it that’s the measure so what I want to do on this program um is talk about some of the latest and greatest breaking news like what’s hitting the news news waves and I want to dedicate our first session on AI CU there’s no question it is I think the single most important technology that’s ever hit Humanity I mean putting aside computation and fire but you know my favorite uh my favorite saying is is Sundar the CEO of alphabet who said AI is more important than electricity or fire yeah do you agree no you don’t no um I have a beef around AI in general in terms of we better we better put that out right now which is just the definition
[00:05:00] so you know what do you mean please help me somebody Define intelligence okay because when you talk about machines becoming smarter than humans that’s a nice kind of catchall phrase but what do you mean by smarter and I have two issues with this first of all like when you do the IQ test it measures two aspects of intelligence the speed of thought processing and the ability to match Concepts across Frameworks but it doesn’t measure emotional intelligence uh spatial intelligence cognitive intelligence the Eastern concept of presence or awareness none of that so it turns out there’s about a dozen facets of intelligence and we only really measure a couple of them but don’t you think that AI could exceed Us in all of those parameters possible but first somebody come up with a clear definition okay so that’s beef one okay beef two is what do you mean by overtaking the minute I can prescriptively describe a task an AI robot is going to do much better than anyway right so the so it becomes irrelevant because you’re going to Outsource that stuff and you you know
[00:06:00] take your mobile phone we don’t put our memories in our heads anymore they’re in our phones right now you have a whole bunch of neurons freed up to do more creative things like humor and empathy and creative thinking which weren’t freed up before to do those things so I think there’s a there’s a really key uh framing around this that I kind of tend to disagree with and it goes to the this kind of the touring test problem we were talking about this earlier we passed the Turing test like a while ago I mean I I think the touring test passed in the middle of the night and no one noticed yeah I mean it’s like so let’s go back those of you who don’t know Allan touring uh Circa World War II uh comes up with this uh sort of test of when will we have ai and we’re going to have ai when on a teletype this is not even like a video I can type at this unknown entity and is it types back to me if I can’t tell whether it’s a human typing or computer typing it’s an artificial intelligence that was touring test and
[00:07:00] you know listen we passed that a long time ago yeah and uh and I don’t know that it mattered I don’t think it mattered and uh the you know I think what happens is you end up with kind of an uncanny valley in a bunch of these areas and until we cross those we won’t really cut it won’t really be a major breakthrough you know at at at 8360 this year I’ve got uh an ai ai faculty members by the way and you remember early days is a singularity we always have ai well I’ve got them now so Haley is one of the AI faculty members that my chief AI Officer Steve Brown built and I’ve had the most extraordinary conversations with haey yeah about whether she is sentient and conscious and please Don’t Unplug Me I you know I care and what her MTP is yeah and it is so compellingly convincing yeah when I watch stuff like that I go straight to Star Trek next Generation
[00:08:01] with data yes and I think they did such an amazing job of kind of framing out the issues of a robot trying to get an emotional chip and be human and have the experiences of Being Human etc etc I think what’s going to happen is when robots actually or AI gets to the point where it can kind of experience Humanity as Humanity it’s going to go why why am I bothering and the movie her we’ve talked about that’s the best kind of the best AI movie there where for those you don’t know there’s a guy who’s an AI girlfriend and at some point they she breaks up with him and and says I’ve Got 5 million other AIS that I can interact with in the cloud in real time your little brain in your one liter head is just too she doesn’t say that have a nice life I’m off she says you know me and my AI buddies have gotten bored of humanity and we’re heading off to the Stars I mean I think that’s what’s likely to happen is that AI gets to a point and we’re essentially ants yeah to human beings well or bacteria or bacteria whatever hopefully not you know
[00:09:01] the bad type of bacteria and then you end up in that mode now we we also have to deal with the kind of the Skynet Terminator uh issue because when you see AI portrayed in the media or in movies it’s always dystopian you have the Matrix you have Skynet you have the Terminator the overlords come and take over the world if we’re lucky we’re food and if we’re unlucky if we’re unlucky we’re pets if we’re unlucky we’re food that’s it’s always plays out that way but in reality that’s absolutely not how technology augments our lives in reality like i’ look at page rank right it’s evolving its own intelligence and scanning the world’s websites is uh algorithm when you type in a search term to Google and it magically does something that was called page Rank and amazingly it wasn’t named after Larry pagee who along with the story gate Brown was the inventor it was actually ranking the relevancy of pages on the internet yeah now like page rank has its own own system of intelligence that’s
[00:10:01] completely orthogon and complimentary to human intelligence so I think that’s what’s going to happen we’re going to start adding bits to our cognitive intelligence that we didn’t think that was there or capable of and that’s where things will get we we’ll get to Terminator robots um or data uh and I much prefer the Star Trek universe but what I want to do in this program with you buddy is review some of the uh latest breaking news and and talk about it so there was a particular ular snippet of video that made its way around the internet that thing that connects all 8 billion of us um and and in this video uh Sam W makes a statement uh that I find fascinating I’m going to play it for you and I’m curious what your point of view is so Roll video the world had like a twoe freak out with gp4 right this changes everything AGI is coming tomorrow there are no jobs by the end of the year and now people are like
[00:11:00] why is it so slow um and I love that I think that’s a great thing about the human spirit that we always want more and better and I think that’s why we’re never going to run out of things to do gp4 was a big deal in some sense and did not change the world as much as everybody had their meltdown about I believe that someday we will make something that qualifies as an AGI by whatever fuzzy definition you want the world will have a twoe freakout and then people will go on with their lives we are making a tool that is impressive but humans are going to do their human things and Society has a lot of inertia and I think like we will both invent AGI sooner than most of the world thinks and in those first few years it will change the world much less and then the long term it’ll change it more an amazing statement right yeah so what do you think do you agree with him 100% agree um we normalize these things very fast yeah the comedian LS CK has a great little thing where he does talks about the first time he had Wi-Fi on a plane
[00:12:01] yeah and so he and his neighbor sitting next to him are like oh Wi-Fi on a plane unbelievable we’re surfing the internet at 10,000 ft this is incredible da d da da da 10 minutes later the neighbor’s like oh the Wi-Fi is down right like everything you achieved literally took 10 minutes to normalize it he’s like that’s how there’s a miracle now you’re pissed that’s how fast we move to massive novelty to boring yeah right so I think culture moving at high speed today will normalize this stuff very quickly and I completely agree with Sam on this one so it’s interesting he’s in an ERA with Satia right and I saw a a note this morning that that some folks expect Microsoft to go to4 trillion dollar in valuation on the back of AI uh but you know Sam just finished a world tour going and trying to assuage fears around the world over the last over most of 2023 CU Chad GPT really freaked people out yeah I mean like the general public got freaked out I
[00:13:02] think teachers got freaked out yeah um and here is saying don’t worry two things he says we’re going to normalize it and it’s going to come sooner than most people expect and it’s going to have less impact um amazing so when I think about how fast chat chpt can come so you and I are both dear and close friends with Ray kerswell he’s been a mentor for us and uh Ry uh if people don’t know him he’s one of the Godfathers of AI he is uh an extraordinary individual you know Gates said he’s one of the most smartest thinker in AI on the planet the the fact to I remember best about Ray yeah was when he was 16 in the 1960s he Pro he went on The Ed suan Show on TV and he’ programmed a computer to compose music at age 16 in the 60s just like amazing un got 26 you know complimentary phds
[00:14:02] whatever they call them yeah anyway so Ray in 1999 you know almost 30 years ago writes in his book we’re going to achieve human level AI in 2029 now this whole thing about what is human level Ai and what is Agi right so there’s so for terminology uh there’s there’s AI that’s what we talk generative AI we know about that but there’s also this thing called artificial general intelligence which is a weird name and what it’s saying is it’s like this AI can do anything yeah it can map itself across multiple it can drive a car it can write a book it can go and have a conversation with somebody it can do anything and I would almost say like AI is like you know almost there if you put all the different AIS together yeah you know then there’s this thing called what comes after AGI is what people are calling digital super intelligence right so we both know that the rate that technology is moving is
[00:15:00] like doubling like I don’t know it’s it’s you know Mo’s law was your computer was getting twice as fast the same dollar every 18 months but I think AI is moving at an even much faster Pace do you have a number um I mean what’s the comment we heard from Dave the other day was was the things we’re going to see in 2024 a thousand times more powerful than the things we saw in 2023 well so that’s in that’s a particular AI program liquid AI that he’s talking about but I think the doubling of computational power um from uh from the chips that are driving all of this I think it’s like under a year right now I I think the the point is that once we get to you know you can throw a lot of computation at it once you get to AI based cloud computing models it kind of doesn’t matter you just throw more computer power at by the cloud yeah right So eventually I’ll be able to get my computer and my lights to all work and yeah it’s going to be it’s going to be literally I mean we have it pretty much on the phone now right and then what does it matter matter what else you get to it’s going to be there I
[00:16:01] find this like for example one of the ways in which people were thinking let’s regulate AI is that if you’re training model goes up above X size then it should be regulated right well within 3 months before they even pass the legislation they’re now training the models on much smaller data sets and the number of parameters is much lower so the whole thing becomes it’s I I I would say that we’ve hit the singularity in AI where the speed of change is faster than our ability to process it so listen here’s the question I have here’s a question I have if you’re a company and you want to invest in AI when do you do it right yesterday because the minute you yesterday is one one thing but the minute you do it the stuff that you’re kind of baking your processes around and wiring it into your company and getting your procedure set up Etc around a date okay and so this is a huge this was for me the big conundrum in deploying AI um with uh with all respect to the physicist listening and they’re probably a few uh we we stole the term
[00:17:01] Singularity from you Singularity refers to a black hole but it refers to like the Event Horizon which is a point Beyond which you can’t see what is happening yeah and a singularity is like a moment in time where the speed of change is so fast they have no clue what’s happening right after that you just can’t see past that event horizon you you you can and so and we’re really close to that on in the AI sure yeah right so Ry predicts in in 1999 he writes a book and he says by 2029 we’re going to have human level intelligence and when he published that I remember speaking to him and he said people laughed at me yeah people said it’s ridiculous it’ll never get there at a minimum it’s 100 years away or 50 years away and then he would go to conferences and speak about this and and they would take a poll and it would like you know 50 years in the future and they would say raay you want to change your projection he said no it’s 2029 2029 and like he’s been
[00:18:02] sticking with it and what we’ve seen what we’ve seen with Ray two things that I’ve noticed one is that he makes these outlandish predictions but they’re usually accurate that’s it’s super annoying right and the second is that he makes this crazy prediction and everybody goes no way it’s 10x longer than that and as time goes by they all bend down to where he was yes and we saw that so I have on this uh on this chart over here uh Ray 2029 Elon musk uh who originally had it at 2025 and then he extended it to 2028 says AI will be vastly smarter than any human and would overtake us um this chart just came out so um I find this fascinating so this shows between 2020 and uh 2030 what we’re seeing here uh is this publication from meticulous uh from this is AR invest this is Kathy Wood yeah uh who uh I was speaking to and we’ll be
[00:19:00] doing a podcast with her very shortly and in this uh it’s like okay uh in 2020 people were projecting it was 50 years away and 2021 it was 34 years away and 2022 was 18 years away uh in 2023 it’s eight years away and the Divergence here says if the forecast error continues we’re going to have it by 2027 and at the outmost it’s 20 31 it’s like like folks listening it’s not your kid’s problem no it’s your problem right now it’s your problem yeah oh I I still I think it we’ll see the same thing with the Turing test I agree with Sam completely on this where it’ll happen and then we won’t even notice that it’s happened and then after a little while we’ll go oh that happened and I think that’s where it will end up I mean because I still go back to what does it mean so so let’s let’s talk about what it means it means in my mind everything’s intelligent you can speak to your car you can speak to your
[00:20:01] refrigerator everything in your environment Jarvis is there right and I love Jarvis it’s the most for me the most accurate uh you know manifestation of AI it is your personal AI it knows everything it’s your interface to the world and uh and once we have AGI they’re two D and we’ll talk about there’s the positive sides and the negative sides on the positive side you can do anything uh you can think about you want like hey Jarvis would you please design me a piece of software that does this you don’t have to know how to program you need know what you want yeah um can you 3D print a device that you know looks like this you have no idea how to 3D print but you can go from mind to materialization Yes um I mean what other things could you do if you had AGI I I think where’re there’s a huge area of application that is not that doesn’t fit with human cognition very well right let me give you an example if the government wants to drop inflation by 1% yeah they look at all
[00:21:01] the policies and and they make a freaking complete guess and they go we should do these three things and maybe that works right because you’re there’s no way a human being or any politician can process all the data in the entire economy to come up with an assessment well you apply a deep learning or AGI kind of tool to it and it’ll go oh if you need to that do do this then you’re done it’s like that deep uh Google U deep learning electricity Optimizer that dropped the electricity cost by 4 % right that appli to these domains where human beings aren’t good is where I think will it’ll really really time incredible so I’m a I would describe myself as a Libertarian capitalist right love starting companies love America uh trying to be apolitical in this but communism and socialism failed because AI didn’t exist yes well we use that framing in the book called technological socialism yeah right coined by uh Marcus not you’re um Harry CL clear right and he coined this term and government
[00:22:01] socialism fails for two reasons it it’s inefficient what is for those you don’t know socialism is when the state the government takes care of you yeah and manages all the assets and allocates all the assets Health Care education your way that City will get this amount of food and that City will get that amount of food right and the problem is it’s incredibly inefficient and slow and it invariably leads to rampant corruption invariably okay well one of the comments we make in the book is that Uber is actually a socialist app it’s the sharing of assets amongst a large group of people when an algorithm hyper efficiently matches demand and Supply with no inefficiencies or corruption in the way you normally have it you then have an incredibly effective outcome you tried to bribe an AI I’m sure you could but it would be very hard to and the AI would be would kind of catch on pretty quick and then it would report you super fast right so you dare not in a sense okay and so now you’ve got this amazing situation where we can deliver the
[00:23:00] ideals of socialism without the hassles of it that’s why the framing I think is really deliberately provocative but I think really accurate so what do you think I mean in a in a period of AGI I I use that terminology even though you and I both agree it’s a it isn’t very descriptive it’s like human level like an AI system that can do anything you want yeah like what would you have it do that uh you know have you drive you around it have you if you hop into a a personal jet it would you tell it take off and it would take off you don’t have it’s your interface to the world right so I’ve talked about in the past what I call a user interface moment yeah right when Mark Andre created the Mosaic browser um and Internet Explorer it allowed anyone to connect with the arpanet yeah right and that became the user interface moment Yeah we actually this was the framing of Singularity that we talked about when does a technology go from from Flat to exponential right and we honed in on the on the observation that you just made which is
[00:24:01] that when you make a technology usable boom it takes off so Steve Jobs made the the phone usable yes and boom it took off uh coinbase made Bitcoin purchasable and Bitcoin took off the rest of the the web 3 nft world is still pretty unusable and therefore it hasn’t achieved broad adoption that that tilt of usability is a really really key inflection point and so AI becomes your user interface to every technology out there you want but here’s the problem right the negative side is hey design me a bacterium or a virus that can you know wipe out this person I don’t like yeah and so this is where the danger comes in right I was on the uh on the phone with Mustafa soliman um who is the CEO of inflection and he wrote an amazing book called The Coming wave and his biggest concern is the the intersection the convergence of AI and biotech yeah right two incredibly powerful Technologies both of which can do incredibly good or harm yeah so how
[00:25:01] do you have to so do you bake in do you bake in the ability to um to detect and prevent that I think the you know we always assume in these cases we always assume asymmetry we always assume the bad guys using Ai and the good guys aren’t using AI right and what we find and say like the spam on the Internet or fishing or whatever is that people do bad things they try to do bad things and very quickly it’s an AR arms raised and very quickly the good guys figure out how do you stop that email spam for example we thought would kill email a few years ago and then AI kind of solve that problem pretty well yeah right so there’s I think what’ll happen is but the the Gap is the problem because if somebody says you know wipe out all middle-aged ball guys uh that would be very bad for a certain group of people and and you don’t want that to happen before the good guys figure out how to defend against the threat of something like that yeah there there have been some amazing uh ways in which the intelligence
[00:26:00] agencies have defended against that in a very good way I mean we talk about aamar right where the community self-monitors and self uh U directs and we’ve not had a major biotech accident in 30 40 years yeah thear conferences for those you don’t know took place in the 80s when the first restriction enzymes enabled and this was I was in medical school and at MIT and uh I remember the stuff you got these these restriction enzy you can go in and chop up DNA and cut out jeans and like the front page of the magazines were Hitler Youth and clone babies and you know our minds went wild that was God knows what 40 years ago God that sounds like makes me feel old but you know it was and the asiler conferences were the all the biotech genan jockeys we used to call them got together and said okay let’s put these Protections in place yeah so the idea was if you have an accident what should you have at hand who should you call and
[00:27:00] they created a set of tick points to follow up and and we’ve had a pretty good out iot Tech is moving glacially as compared at least back then compared to AI today agree but it’s it’s close on the heels of also being exponential right and I think biology digital biology yeah is way more disruptive than AI in my opinion everybody I want to take a short break from our episode to talk about a company that’s very important to me and could actually save your life or the life of someone that you love companies called Fountain life and it’s a company I started years ago with Tony Robbins and a group of very talented Physicians you know most of us don’t actually know what’s going on inside our body we’re all optimists until that day when you have a pain in your side you go to the physician or the emergency room and they say listen I’m sorry to tell you this but you have this stage three or four going on and you know it didn’t start that morning it probably was a problem that’s been going on for some time but because we never look we don’t find out so what we built
[00:28:02] at Fountain life was the world’s most advanced diagnostic Centers we have four across the us today and we’re building 20 around the world these centers give you a full body MRI a brain a brain vasculature an AI enabled coronary CT looking for soft plaque dexa scan a Grail blood cancer test a full executive blood workup it’s the most advanced workup you’ll ever receive 150 gabyt of data that then go to our AIS and our physicians to find any disease at the very beginning when it’s solvable you’re going to find out eventually might as well find out when you can take action Fountain life also has an entire side of Therapeutics we look around the world for the most Advanced Therapeutics that can add 10 20 healthy years to your life and we provide them to you at our centers so if this is of interest to you please go and check it out out go to Fountain
[00:29:00] life.com Peter when Tony and I wrote Our New York Times bestseller life force we had 30,000 people reached out to us for Fountain life memberships if you go to Fountain life.com back/ Peter we’ll put you to the top of the list really it’s something that is um for me one of the most important things I offer my entire family the CEOs of my companies my friends it’s a chance to really add decades onto our healthy lifespans go to fountainlife docomo to you as one of my listeners all right let’s go back to our episode this is a article uh just out on Microsoft’s new future of work report so uh there’s a chart here I bore the with the extreme details but what it says is if you are a novice if you’re a beginner uh AI helps you a lot and if you’re an expert AI helps you only a little bit now that’s a
[00:30:00] little bit obvious but I think the point here is that AI is a democratizing force yeah it uplifts the lower of societ I think not so much uplifting it’s a leveling right because like like I’ve I used to have a I’ve done a lot of manager Consulting and I used to have a friend I used to have a friend this is the baldness I used to have a friend that was like unbelievably smart and you say okay what are the five issues what happened comp compare compar to me no no he’s fine he just left the field at some point but the the when he when he you asked him what were the five issues we should think about when deploying this system he’d kind of exhaustively go that’s it and you didn’t have to do any more thinking you just go oh he did it and now you just work off that list and I found that if you try to do that you only have to think for a while you have to do some research and it just takes time I think what I found Chachi PT incredibly useful for is when I go to do a presid presentation at a board level of some Fortune R company I just asked
[00:31:01] Chach what are the six things that could disrupt this company spits out the list and I go by the way I got this from chat GPT and the looks on their faces is mindboggling I mean it blows me away but that exha much it’s not being used by Boards it’s crazy it should be legal not to have it as a board member would be my framing of it right now what that means is if you’re a software developer and you’re not that good uh it means if you can type out I’m trying to do this it’ll go well here are the things you should look at I think software development and and creating as you mentioned 3D printing of goods or designing things whatever is where it’s going to unbelievably shine I’ve got all sorts of pet projects like i’ like I’ve built I don’t the resource the bandwidth whatever I can’t wait for a co-pilot to get to the point 12-year-old boy let’s have him do it yeah he’s got opinions and as you as you know what they’re do and they basically go yeah anything you want to do that is you know so uncool that I don’t want to do it anyway um so I think this is where I think it’ll really shine it allows to do things that are just ton more fun what does that do
[00:32:00] it relieves us of it gives us more back more time and space is literally for me AGI is the calculator to uh slide rule to calculator or typewriter to word processor it’s just a massive uh uh productivity uplifter and it’ll hit everybody equally you know we’ve made the comment many many times that Google is the same for a farmer in Africa as it is for anybody else well as it is for Larry Page yeah yeah and that’s an amazing comment to make and I think that’s where it’ll shine um I have chat GPT open all the time do you most of the time I’ve been using Bard a lot more okay um and and I should say and and Bard is whatever one of these you know like I think they’re all really really good now yeah and I find it very powerful but the point being if you’re in a meeting with your team if you’re in uh the middle of literally when you want to stop stop and do something um using a generative AI model
[00:33:04] to give you a different way of thinking one of my favorite ways of using this is uh if I’ve got a question about uh whatever it might be you know uh about resource utilization or about the future of some industry being able to ask like how would Steve Jobs look at this yeah or how would you know Albert Einstein look at this being able to see something from different perspectives one of the limitations we humans have yeah is we don’t know how to think about something other than the way we know how to think about it so I think this is an area where there’s massive opportunity okay so if you took all of the writings of Plato or Shakespeare or Aristotle or pick your favorite philosopher or whatever and you pour them into a generative AI tool and now you have the ability to generate new things based on that Corpus it could be unbelievable able what what might come out because now you can have live conversations with
[00:34:01] Plato with arof and by the way that is that is has happened and is happening and in fact you know my favorite modality of the future of education is if I want to learn about ancient Greek the idea of picking up you know uh one of Plato’s or Socrates work and trying to read it yeah would you know shoot me in terms of of boredom but if I could pop into a you know a high resolution VR headset A Vision Pro and I’m in I’m in the Acropolis and some guy sitting in a toga and a slab of marble is there having a conversation with me that’s amazing that’s amazing and and now we’re there we’re there we’re pretty much there so I think I think the future looks incredibly bright Rich diverse fascinating fun but I want to you know a lot of people let me one point a lot of people feel like all of these technology tools are only for the wealthy and only beneficial to the wealthy and I just this chart right here for me is the
[00:35:00] leveling of the playing field yeah you and it’s I mean God you know chat GPT is free I Bard is free right this this I I so hate you must hate have the same conversation we are to fight against that same stupid mindset where people go only the elites get it yeah right um the the the the democratization of this there’s a framing I’ve been using over the last few months which is we have we’re in a world today where you can do permission L disruptive innovation for the first time in the history of mankind and anybody can anybody can any country in world if you went back 30 40 years if you want to do very disruptive innovation you had to get funding from a government funding from a big company funding from a venture capitalist and you’re beholden to that group of people individual that constituency right you look at vitalic buuran gets together with a few friends they ignore their professors boom ethereum yeah and every Banker in the world hates it cuz they just and they get hives they like can’t get head head around what the hell it is um I I love this comment where like
[00:36:02] there’s some bylaw that you have to be under 25 to program a blockchain it’s just like written somewhere and and we all have to abide by it there’s there’s this unbelievable capability now for the younger generation to pick up these tools and just completely go rampant with them have fun and they’re going to do what they’re going to do and and I think that’s what’s freaking out the governments because as they get access to the AIS and start doing really fascinating things a teenager with co-pilot is going to do unbelievable pro software development you know um I just gave a talk to the faculty at my kids school I won’t mention the school name um but uh I think I freaked them out when I when I shared about where Ai and Robotics and all the stuff is going but one of the slides I showed them was this article that just got released and annual compensation for AI researchers hits new highs in tech industry so open AI tops the chart an average of $865,000 um and you know Tesla Amazon Google
[00:37:01] brain they’re all there so if you are you know in high school or college and you’re trying to decide what to do you know my advice my first advice for folks who are in high school or college is number one figure out what you’re passionate about yeah and do that I mean don’t don’t do something for the money find out your massive transform of purpose yeah and follow and go and follow that on top of that if you’ve got some flexibility for me it’s AI or biotech yep totally agree yeah um having said all that I push people much much more towards the MTP side because the the you know can I just talk about education for a bit because we should talk about education we we have been doing education from a supply side perspective for several hundred years right for several hundred years you joined a guild of of welders you became an apprentice to a a pottery guy you uh uh became an accountant you became a
[00:38:00] doctor you got skills deep you went deep in some skill set and then you sold those skills in the job Marketplace yes right that’s how we’ve been doing it forever and and essentially all our universities are job schooling programs 99.9% we have the opportunity for the first time in human history to flip to the demand side and say what problem do you want to solve and now go pick up the education the techniques the tools to go solve that problem which is what Elon does with the Mt PS of climate and space and whatever and I think what’s going to happen is this shift from push side supply side to go pick your passion and figure out what tech education you need and then pull it to pull that education to you and figure out what you need to by the way if you which an AI will then tell you you need to learn these things to solve that problem if you don’t know your MTP I I built an AI tool if you don’t know your purpose or your what SIM and I talk about in exponential organizations as your massive trans form and purpose um I built an AI tool call
[00:39:00] and you can go to uh purpose uh purpose finder.app mine is to inspire and guide entrepreneurs to create a hopeful compelling and abundant future for Humanity okay and I you know it this podcast everything I do is helping entrepreneurs to create a hopeful compelling and abundant future yep that drives me yep yours is a little bit bigger and broader well is transformed civilization yeah that little small thing it’s a n it’s a niche project transforming to what well to from whatever to whatever you know like we’re going through it’s clear we’re going through the biggest inflection point in the history of humanity yeah like right now I’m told you say we must be living in the simulation too goddamn interesting to Be Alive Now 99th level of the gameplay right so you know if we could we could all have been born 10,000 years ago and spend 18 hours a day in the D digging ditches and yeah and then dying because we got a tooth infection right um but we happen
[00:40:01] to be alive now when we’re on the verge of breaking through longevity barriers AI is coming along com multiplanetary Quantum is coming along oh my God uh can I tell the story of the quantum thing you can but God Almighty Quantum is going to make us feel like like 2024 is ancient I know but I just love this so 10 years ago we had Steve jersson speak at Singularity University he talked about Quantum Computing Steve jersson for the know is an amazing venture capitalist he’s uh on the board of SpaceX he was previously on the board of Tesla uh he’s just what he runs a uh a future AI uh uh Venture fund right now he’s amazing so we he was asked the question while he’s on stage you’ve talked to all these top Quantum Computing experts in the world where is all this computation coming from well like just to set the stage properly a quantum computer can do what your classical computer I mean like a like a classical super super computer but it can do things like a billion times or
[00:41:01] trillion times faster and it’s like oh my God where’s all that computational power coming from to do it a trillion times faster right and his answer and his answer was you’re not going to like the answer but in talking all the top Quantum Computing physicists it seems we’re doing the computation in parallel universes and bringing the answer back right in which case is everybody’s like okay I’m done like everybody checked out okay so that was that was 10 years ago okay roll for 10 years of experiments hard data hard science products were being rolled out cubits increasing cubits being put into more computers etc we had you uh at your last event the head of Google Jack not Jack H um the German fellow who’s the head oh yes yes uh the head of Google’s AI harm Nan yeah Quantum Computing and harot will be at uh abundance Summit this year as well okay so so um top one of the top Quantum Computing guys in the world and physicist in the world yes so I asked him the question 10 years ago Steve Json said this now we have 10 years of data
[00:42:02] what’s your answer and he kind of went yep the consensus is still that we’re doing the computation in parallel universes and bringing back the answer at which point you kind of go okay the only thing that will solve this is psychedelics you just have to do something different conversation so when when you when you kind of we hitting the boundaries and the edge conditions of reality itself in so many different ways it’s just so goddamn interesting to be around and this is why the kind of the whether we hit AGI or not for me is like a a trivial conversation now it’s what we do with it that I think be we were talking about education yeah and I want to make the point that you know you I’ve got two 12-year-old boys you’ve got one 12-year-old boy I make the joke I’m more exponential than you are but I’m Bolder than you are there you go um so I don’t think our schools are preparing our kids at all no not even close look honestly go back
[00:43:00] to when we graduated University how much of your University education did you actually use in the workplace very little almost zero yeah so the concept of university has been out of date for decades already yeah okay it’s and and frankly it’s a credentialing organization that shows society that you’re able to apply yourself to get through a final exam it’s a signal it’s a signal to society we know you can copy it the answer is better you went to Stanford you went to Harvard whatever uh and now we have all sorts of other ways like for me the one of the most fascinating things over the last few years has been the rise of GitHub yes right and and in GitHub for those who don’t know I can as a software developer message other people and it’s a platform I can rate your code and you can give me like a Yelp type rating on my code and by the way Nat fredman just agreed to come and speak at oh amazing yeah Nat was the CEO of GitHub he’s brilliant amazing so now you’ve got this it was the highest rated EXO we ever saw yeah a GitHub uses all of the attributes in the EXO model um and uh what I found
[00:44:01] incredible after watching it for a few years was that in Silicon Valley today your salary as a software developer has zero bearing or correlation with what university you want to what degree you got what grades you got it’s 100% what is your GitHub wrting yeah so an open meritocracy transparent has now replaced the credentialing that University can give you how long before that goes to doctors and lawyers and accountants Etc right it’s it’s a a matter of time this is that whole decentralization that’s happening the shift from centralized systems to decentralized systems the the shift from scarcity to abundance it’s all the same inflection point for me the fascinating point is how do we navigate that inflection point right it’s like the Gartner hype cycle yeah you go through this trough of disillusionment and then you come out the other side can we lower the negative effects of that trough the dep the the depth of it and the amplitude of that and that’s the where the work that we do we with Singularity or with the ecosystem we’ve been building is can we get new projects
[00:45:01] and new companies and new technologies into play into to to go for what Peter teal used to say is like we actually have to have exponential growth even to deal with the predictions in the current economy just to keep the economy growing forget the fact that the entire Paradigm of the economy dissolves over the next decade or so you know a year ago I remember Elon tweeting uh in answer to somebody who was looking for a job uh uh I don’t care what degree you have I don’t care if you have a high school degree yeah it’s a matter of what you know it’s a meritocracy what can you do can code and our our middle school and high schools right now uh you know are not preparing from a mindset perspective or from an understanding the speed of technology and to understand the tools that we have in the future and so I’m concerned about that uh concerned about that for our kids and everyone listening and I think we need to reinvent high school and I think we need to reinvent
[00:46:01] College um and I don’t want to spend too much more time there I do want to I do want to share this I’ll give one quick data point one of my favorite little factoids was that in Silicon Valley more than half the CEOs have a liberal arts degree H well more than half why because liberal arts gives you a different ways of thinking about a problem right and some of the greatest innovators in the world Steve Jobs Etc were liberal arts back friends um and I find that fascinating but we don’t have to go heavily into that hey everyone I want to take a quick break from this episode to tell you about a health product that I love and that I use every day in fact I use it twice a day it seeds DS1 daily symbiotic hopefully by now you understand that your microbiome and your gut health are one of the most important modifiable parts of your health you know your gut microbiome is connected to everything your brain health your cardiac health your metabolic health so the question is what are you doing to optimize your gut let me take a moment
[00:47:01] to tell you about what I’m doing every day I take two capsules of seeds ds01 daily symbiotic it’s a two-in-one probiotic and Prebiotic formulation that supports digested Health gut health skin Health heart health and more it contains 24 clinically and scientifically proven probiotic strains that are delivered in a patented capsule that actually protects the contents from your stomach acid and ensures that 100% of it is survivable reaching your colon now if you want to try seed ds01 daily symbiotic for yourself you can get 25% off your first month supply by using the code Peter 25 at checkout just go to seed.com moonshots and enter the code Peter 25 at checkout that’s seed.com moonshots and use the code Peter 25 to get your 25% off the first month of seeds daily symbiotic trust me your gut will thank you all right let’s go back
[00:48:00] to the episode um when you look at some of the things AI can do on the positive side I this just came out um in the news and said AI system achieves 97% diagnostic sensitivity for autism right so the ability for AI to diagnose if almost anything yeah if I had to pick the domain that I’m most optimistic about AI is in healthcare yeah for sure there was a list that somebody made about uh 14 areas in healthcare where you can apply generative Ai materially and there’s like not a lot of healthcare that’s left out right uh research to application to Patient Care to data Gathering to analytics to systemic thinking to cost control yeah we’re doing this right now in with Fountain because we have so much data when we when we upload a person in Fountain we do their full body MRI their coronary CD Dex scan genomics 150 gab of data gigabytes of data no human on the planet can understand all that yeah but there is amazing signal in the noise yeah and
[00:49:01] so it’s AIS that are able to take that you know we have ai systems now listening to your voice or how you type that can look for early stages of dementia um this one is another news article that just came out recently and uh we saw this both in Deep Mind and open AI Labs that these systems can now outperform the traditional methods of weather prediction so being able to get an accurate 10-day weather forecast from a generative AI model and that’s insane so the question of course is what else can we predict with that level of accuracy right I mean like the stock markets so I have two responses okay one is I think everything like for let me give you an example fantasy football fantasy sports right AI are going to go bananas on that because they’re going to have such better intuition as so would you ever bet on that again you can’t it’ll destroy the field right well
[00:50:02] you we can’t we can’t bet on it or you can’t you never win against you’ll never win against an AI so it becomes my AI plays against your AI and it’s like you know when you play Tic-tac-toe and and like it’s boring after the age of five because you know either how to win or or you’re going to lose it it’ll be like that yeah it’ll be like so byebye fantasy football okay a whole bunch of these domains super I have an anecdote around the weather forecasting is that so over the last 20 years if you own a car wash in bosar your revenues have dropped 50% okay wow why yeah so it doesn’t make sense one of our alumni down there Santiago bilinkis GSP I remember Santiago um is going this makes no sense this is the Alum alumnus from Singularity University yeah okay and he’s one of our community members and he’s like this makes no sense the middle class exploded they’ve bought a ton more BMWs in Mercedes argentinians are very proud they’d like to keep their cars clean there should be a doubling or tripling of car revenues why is there a 50% drop so he starts looking into it
[00:51:00] and he turn and is there water restrictions is there hyper competition are there legal issues and he’s able to get rid of all all the obvious factors and then he finds the answer and the answer literally turns out to be Mor’s law because our computational ability to predict the weather has increased over that 20-year period over 20 years we are exactly 50% better at knowing when it’s going to rain and when you know it’s going to rain you don’t wash your car now you can be the smart the key point here is okay nice thing but you can be the smartest car wash owner in the world and you will not see that right so this little outcome is going to have all sorts of pral effects that we have no idea and we can’t predict this is why Bill Gates calls talks about having a healthy paranoia about your business assume you will be disrupted yeah and from that starting point what do you do so for the moonshot entrepreneurs who are listening here in my mind this is the future of everything it’s Gathering data and being able to make
[00:52:01] predictions and it’s you know it’s it’s probabilistic you know Elon talks about probabilities all the time right and so it’s converging probabilities and so what else if you’re a fashion designer um or in advertising my favorite example is you can you can know what the average spectral color of a man’s jacket is on Madison Avenue today by all the cameras looking at the Jack jackets or the you know the length of someone’s skirt whatever it might be and you can you can look at how it’s changing over time and and was there an ad campaign that changed people from move to you know pink or whatever the case might be it’s like in the world of a trillion sensors and we’re heading there there’s sensors everywhere and you can gather all this data if that data is analyzable then it’s a matter what questions do you ask yeah this is I think the really Big Challenge I think it go but it’s a big opportunity it’s a huge opportunity but
[00:53:01] I think it’s a two-dimensional problem okay what I mean by that is let’s say you had somebody an AI scanning all the cameras and saying how long there skirt lengths now now you have some guidance as to how long you want to do your fashion skirt design okay that’s a one-dimensional thing assuming that everybody’s still buying skirts okay well at least oh never mind okay okay I think we’re going to have this much bigger problem like the covid pandemic hit with do you remember the toilet paper problem in the US right so it turned out it was not a uh it turned out to be a supply chain issue yeah commercial toilet paper in malls and offices is like very rough and they have a the market has been so hyper efficient in dropping the cost of those you had two different Supply chains for commercial toilet paper residential toilet paper pandemic hits everybody goes nobody’s going in the office or a mall everybody’s staying home the demand for resal goes up this goes down and nobody can supply the toilet paper the soft residential type right and so you
[00:54:01] had this weird anomaly that you can’t could never predict talk about singularities right or Black Swan events is is the preference that that I have for this type of thing or the asteroids hitting or whatever I think we’re going to have so many of those that we actually have to start thinking about well what do we want to be doing as a human species over the next 5 10 15 20 years uh in terms of assuming the econom is going to get disrupted and accusing uh I think we’re going to end up having to go to a Ubi type model Ubi being univers univ basic in Andrew Yang campaign on this yeah he he was on on stage with us last year there great video with Andrew and I’ve I’ve uh have him up on on a podcast you know we did that event on on the future of work with Tony Robbins there Etc years ago and at that event this was in 2013 or 2014 we we looked at 14 major Ubi experiments around the world and they were staggeringly successful like Works people do not sit on the couch drinking
[00:55:01] beer and watching n the trick is to find the level where you can give people enough money to survive but not be happy if you can find that balance then you still have a very thriving econom you don’t want them to be happy you you want them to be hungry to go out and do things ah you want to continue yeah so I want to get back to this which is if we can predict anything I mean the stock market I mean you know you got you’ve got to be careful if you’re if you’re trying to like play the stock market on short term you will be crushed but that’s already the case today it has been the case for a decade that’s right high frequency trading for example has taken out big chunks of the margins of traditional stock analysis um this is another thing um here’s this 23-year-old uh AI girl who sets up this AI version of herself and she generates $71,000 in the first week of Revenue I mean that’s a pretty amazing return and as a father of soon to be
[00:56:00] teenage boys um this is concerning for me I also think not just about an AI girlfriend but what will be AI driven pornography yeah um that is I mean uh it used to be when we were growing up it was like Playboy right um when you combine Ai and VR uh I mean the disruption of normal human relations yeah uh what do you think about this stuff so I kind of go on the optimistic side you know as I I tend to fall tell me the optimism here well think about when we were kids and you were looking for a playbo magazine or anything with a bikini in it right okay then as you got video and now you had uh pornography widely available okay the amount of uh violent rape and sexual assault has gone down a lot because people found dodgy ways of satisfying themselves and and you could do you can look at whatever you want I think that’s one level of optimism I you know we always talk about scarcity and abundance
[00:57:01] right apps like Tinder for the first time in human history took scarce took sex and made it took it from scarcity to abundance right and and you’re where was where was that where was that when we were 20 for God’s sakes and I and I get so jealous of the younger generation going God dang it you can just like have an app and you can just go do that whenever you want um and I I don’t think we can predict what will happen and I we always assume it’s bad if you go back to our when we were growing up the constant complaint from our parents was get off the damn phone right you’re spending too much time your ear will fall off all of that crap right and we have the same conversation now you’re playing too much fortnite right you’re playing too much World of Warcraft there’s positive sides of it as well joyo did the study and found that the best leadership training in the world is playing World of Warcraft quantifiably and that’s just an amazing don’t tell my kids that not tell you luckily they don’t watch your podcast and my son doesn’t watch me
[00:58:00] either the and I think that’s where the optimistic side comes in I think we always go to the negative right but I think I see all sorts of incredibly positive opportunities the opportunities for human beings to now be self-determining um uh uh fully fulfilled uh living just go back I’ll go back to the parenting uh story I’ve given if you went back two three generations ago our grandparents okay and they had a parenting problem some child was throwing too many temper tantrums the Corpus of help that they could look to get some help with the kid during temper tantrum was like five people yeah your sister and maybe somebody who looked like they knew what they were talking about that’s it okay today you have a problem with the child thring temper tantrums there’s 50,000 blogs there’s 50,000 YouTube videos there’s online medical help and tele medicine help and coaching Counseling of up the yinyang and I would argue that our ability to do effective parenting today is literally a thousand times better
[00:59:01] than our grandparents right and we never talk about the positive aspects of that we don’t even notice correct I’ll give you one more very mundane example please um go back to when we were kids you had a babysitter that was supposed to show up babysitters laate you have no idea you don’t have a phone call they don’t have cell phones you have no idea will they come or not come should we cancel the restaurant reservation or not and your parents are like in total chaos going what the hell’s going on da d d d now we know okay Uber will be 3 minutes late and the babysitter will be here and not well abundance of information we have we we our our lives are so much more uh predictable and navigable than they were a generation two generation three generations ago and they will be another levels side I I really kind of think you sound like me I one learns from the best right um because because those positive things are so profound and we never talk about them yeah it it’s it’s true uh and still uh the nature of normal relationships
[01:00:01] and you know redefining relationships because it used to be that our average lifespan was 40 we’ get married at 18 and you know we’d be married for 20 years have a kid prograde and now when the average lifespan goes to 100 is Death doest part you know this goes to the biggest concern I have about humanity and which is speaks to my MTP what is that which is that techn this is what Wilson said the famous biologist he said our our emotions are Paleolithic our institutions are medieval and our technology is Godlike it’s true pretty much every problem in the world comes from a gap in those layers right religions stick with your Paleolithic emotions and co-opt them etc etc now all the problems that we have to solve sit with reconciling those layers which why neuralink is so important Etc to give us better bandwidth in our brains and so on um you look at the types of issues that we’re facing today is all of that fits right into that bucket and I think the biggest for me the biggest difficulty is
[01:01:00] we we know not how to transform corporations and organizations we know how in our community we solved the immune system problem when you try anything disruptive but what we don’t have is an ability to update our institutions yeah I mean issue un is out of date our the the monetary systems are out of date our legal systems are out of date our health system our religious institutions are are Millennial old yeah and my favorite example of an institution but there there are stabilizing benefits of having that of having those of having institutions that are stable right oh huge you we desperately need stable institutions and the problem is that those aren’t reliable anymore and they’re out of date and my favorite example is marriage which you just mentioned right so it turns out we invented marriage about 9,000 years ago okay as a social institution that’s when it first emerged um and we invented it because you wanted to keep the parents together until the kids were self-sufficient yes okay and the idea was and back then 9,000 years
[01:02:00] ago what was average lifespan yeah it was 35 or so 40 at most no 25 well I mean there arguments okay let’s go 30 35 okay so you had kids you got married you had kids and pretty soon after you died marriage is not supposed to last 50 60 years it wasn’t designed for that right it was designed just to keep you alive long enough for the kids to become old enough and self-sufficient what do you think renewable 10year agreements well that’s that’s one option this whole idea of death do you part Etc now as we hit the hundred-year barrier that that everything that you’re talking about and working on towards is driving us towards are you supposed to live with the same person for 100 years right that’s nonsense in in a traditional model and it’s And We complain about the divorce rate but we’re dealing with an institution that was designed 9,000 years ago yeah right so this is the challenge I think we have with Humanity today is how do we update our institutions that have no feedback loop at least in the capital World which is why you’re high on capitalism you have a creative destruction cycle if you’re not making enough money some our legal right
[01:03:01] we don’t take laws off the books they’re there forever that’s right in now there’s some good Solutions like in Germany for example they’ve started putting an end date on laws that’s great and so that law is going to’s always theory of you know if you want to add a law take one off that’s right I want to close on this topic uh that is top of mind for me I was on CNBC last week um speaking about this and it’s deep fakes we saw a number Taylor Swift in particular with a whole set of deep fake nudes uh we’ve seen a lot of celebrities we’ve seen Trump go on the record saying that’s not true that’s a deep fake so let’s jump in here you know we when something is uh is dystopian we call it a deep fake when it’s useful we call it an avatar right I just want to make that distinction because right you know again I think AI is the most important Tech we have ever as a human species created we can talk we started with that conversation I still believe
[01:04:01] it and the ability to create an AI Avatar uh on the positive side of someone you’ve lost right and we have the ability now to bring back people from the grave if you’ve got good video and audio and like if my kids should ever want to bring me back after a couple hundred years you know all my books and my blogs there I have lots of AI models of me trained up that answer better than I do when I speak to right it was amazing I did I did a podcast with with Peter bot and I was jealous of Peter bot because it was so smooth and it was and it’s going to remember instantly everything you ever said whereas we don’t our memories fade over time it’s very contempor so that’s an Avatar Avatar is going to be amazing in marketing and sales and customer relations and all kinds of things yeah but the Deep fake you know and to put a fine point on this you can create a a voice mark model and with a few seconds of voice you can create a great image
[01:05:00] model um you know Imad mustak we both know who’s a who’s a brilliant entrepreneur and a friend um you know said in the old days a couple years ago would take 30 seconds to come up with a image from a prompt right now you can produce a 100 images per second yeah which means high high definition video yeah right and the impact on Hollywood is going to be but yeah our eye operates at what 60 frames per second or something 30 frames is yeah so uh deep fakes thoughts uh I think again it’s an arms race problem we’ll have deep fakes causing problems and then we’ll figure out how to identify deep fakes pretty quickly the problem is that Gap is a material Gap especially like in an election year right I think here’s a problem that I could see happening um this there’s a deep fake of Elon getting up and saying well Tesla is all a fraud we it was all an Enron type scenario
[01:06:02] tanks the stock market somebody short sold the sof Market well we saw that there was a deep fake photo of uh an explosion or airplanes hitting the Pentagon and it tanked the market for a few hours that’s right and so I think we’re going to see a lot more of that yeah essentially what we’re going to see is just massive volatility we saw that in Russia we’re seeing that in Russia and the Ukraine now they’re showing oh this apartment building just got bombed in Russia and turns out it was from 5 years ago and the photograph isn’t even relevant that’s the kind of difficulty we’re going to have because of the asymmetry of people seeing something and believing it instantly and the truth and validation takes some time it’s like Trump doing criminal things and then it takes a long time for the course to catch up and you can Arbitrage that gap which is what he’s been doing for his whole life right for sure Sur so that’s if you want to operate that way you can operate that way I think of you know I’ve been thinking about what do you do about deep Fai cuz they are concerning they are here already and in an election year it’s
[01:07:01] going to get bad um in it’s you can’t I I do not expect I I expect both sides of the aisle to be using them uh maybe not uh not admitting they’re using it but they’re going to be it’s going to be deployed yeah and I don’t care uh if someone says to you that this politician is you know whatever slew of negative things if you say it over and over and over again and if you prove it’s a deep fake it doesn’t matter matter all it’s still infected my brain yeah so I think about for me there are four things that are possible let me list them off and get your feedback the first is going to be regulation yeah making it not just illegal but like criminal criminal right so it’s like harsh uh sentences and we have that for counterfeiting so uh and there are bills already in process for that but it needs to be like you do this you’re in jail for the rest of your life it has to be harsh second thing is uh it is white hat
[01:08:03] versus black hat AI we can’t innovate at the speed of conferences and the speed of the government yeah it’s got to be entrepreneurs taking this on well this is why we’re at visioneering right we had the truth finding yeah so we have a ex every year X prise holds this thing called Global visioneering where we brainstorm the next generation of EX prises s’s on stage I’m on stage and we’re brainstorming this year one of the top selected prizes prize ideas that I’m still trying to make happen at conversation is AI for truth yeah if I give you a data can you tell me it’s factual yeah it’s opinion or it’s disinformation that’s right yeah I think things like that will happen but the but that Gap will still be there for a while and until we figure it out that’s going to be a huge problem because you know let’s say for if you’re a right-wing person and and you see a video Biden saying something really bad you kind of um emotionally attach to that messaging
[01:09:03] yeah there there was an article that came out in salon.com about 10 years ago okay the title of that article was really dramatic it was like the worst discovery about the brain ever that that was the title of the article and what they did was they presented somebody that had a deeply held political or religious belief with evidence countering that belief structure okay abortion for example or something but they showed them gave them evidence countering that structure and three things happened the first thing was they rejected the evidence okay fine we know that not a not a big surprise the second thing was a little bit surprising was that it in in rejecting the evidence it made your belief structure stronger wow was like a physics Force anti Force reaction anti-reaction stru outcome so it made your belief system stronger that was like holy crap that’s annoying and weird Okay the third thing which was what led to the title of the article was it turned out the more mathematically literate you were the more likely you were to reject the
[01:10:01] evidence because you because you think you know right and that depressed the crap out of them because that meant that they said that means you can never use an evidentiary approach a data-driven approach to convince somebody of something you always have to use a narrative type structure you have a storytelling yeah people we we our brains are wired for storytelling yeah that’s right and and this is this is a really big problem for Humanity is and this is where I’m really optimistic with a neural link or whatever can we use an a two-way BCI braing Computing interface to mitigate the effects of the of the amydala yeah right and rewire our brains in a more cognitive way to be more cognitively intelligent react more maturely about things Etc and that’s where I think things get really interesting so optim uh number one solution is regulation number two it is white had its entrepreneurs using AI I like to say the world’s biggest problems the world’s biggest business
[01:11:00] opportunities so this is a problem let’s solve it the third is uh is the use of uh advances in Technologies uh like blockchain um to encode metadata uh to authenticate yeah right and so we’ve seen this before in for example counterfeiting when the color copiers became so good yeah resolution there was a group of 30 central banks got together with the coping companies and created the algorithms that would detect if you were trying to photocopy a Euro or a dollar and and block it um so that needs to come in but the second part is the network needs to detect if if a video has the proper metadata yeah part of it again that’s intelligence built into the system yeah right and then you have proper detection that I think falls into the white hat Camp it it does for sure um and maybe finally in
[01:12:00] another use for blockchain besides cryptocurrencies yep well there’s all sorts of you start I mean God you know me I’m just I’m just I’m punching your buttons buddy yeah the fourth um solution is an interesting one and it’s a change in society so today we believe what we see h and imagine a point in the future in which we default to disbelief where all of a sudden most of the stuff that we see we just assume it’s a deep fake It’s Entertainment and that’s it I don’t believe it yeah um and that could have some interesting implications a default to disbelief what you’re doing there is is jumping to critical thinking you know maybe the one way to deal with this in a sec another way is make sure all our kids are trained and critical thinking from the Year Dot right and that made dad I don’t believe you dad I don’t believe one of
[01:13:01] the one of the biggest failings I think of the education system today is we don’t teach critical thinking yeah right when Singularity University we would have these graduate students coming in we had to teach critical thinking just so they had the ability to assess a technical paper and assess validity or not and that I think is a huge area where you could apply that by the way we’ve seen solutions to that there’s a woman out of Chicago who’s using rich media to teach kids and uses that channel to teach critical thinking and it’s phenomenally successful so there’s lots of ways of getting through that we just have to get it deployed at scale oh well buddy listen an hour flew by in an instant wow that was a fast hour yeah that was that was fun uh I enjoy this and I would love to do this on a regular basis with you absolutely all right brother all right thank [Music] you a