we want to make meat without the need to slaughter a single animal we need to reinvent how we produce high quality protein for individuals let’s give folks the meat they want but let’s just make it in a different better way just because we used to do something an old way for a long time doesn’t mean it’s the best way to do it the chicken that we eat for food today is not the original chicken when you need to slaughter an animal for food you have to feed that an animal why not just skip a lot of that process and people go that’s disgusting and I’m my answer is have you ever actually been in a slaughter house and you look at salmonella um you look at eoli you look at FAL contamination it’s a definition of Cruelty I want us to create food that is causing a whole less harm I don’t know why we have to cause any harm to any living thing if we don’t absolutely have to hi everybody Peter D mandis here and
[00:01:00] welcome to moonshots on this episode we’re going to have an amazing conversation with a moonshot entrepreneur Josh tetric who is the CEO of good meat now here’s the question would you eat lab grown meat lab grown chicken fish pork tuna whatever it might be we’re going to hear about the technology to feed the world with benefits to you your pocketbook your body and the planet Josh is amazing he’s also one of the best storytellers he’s going to teach us why storytelling as a moonshot entrepreneur is so critically important all right get ready for something that’s going to blow your mind and make you hungry let’s jump into the episode everybody Peter here welcome to moonshots I’m here with a dear friend a brilliant entrepreneur Josh tetric Josh good to see you pal hey Peter good to see you where on the planet are you today I am in the East Bay in Alam uh California so Alam is where our headquarters is uh is based is it
[00:02:00] exactly where it was last time has it grown and expanded into new territories it has yeah it’s grown and expanded yes see we started off in a studio apartment in Southern California then we moved to a garage uh in the mission in San Francisco then we moved to the last place that you saw which was an old bread company I remember that and now we’ve moved to Alam a little bit more professionalized a little bit better lab infrastructure our production facility and a team of uh people who are making this happen you know let’s kick off with your moonshot because it’s an ambitious moonshot that in reality billions of people around the world want you to succeed with how would you describe your moonshot at good meat we want to make meat without the need to slaughter a single animal we think the world’s most consumed meat shouldn’t require billions of animals shouldn’t require a third of our planet just a plant swing cord to feend those animals we think we can make meat in a smarter way and that process
[00:03:00] is called cultivating meat instead of slaughtering meat yeah and it’s a chance to reinvent what we humans have been uh doing for hundreds of thousands and millions of years you know often thought about the fact that just because we used to do something an old way for a long time doesn’t mean it’s the best way to do it uh I don’t think people realize uh the implications on every aspect of our lives and the environment of Our Food Systems our food economics uh if you want to just jump in one second and and talk about that yes so we’ve as a a species been eating animals for um uh for Millions excuse me for tens of thousands of years first with a spear um and then really beginning in the 1950s we begin to mechanize industrialize the process uh there was a chicken farmer in Delaware who got an extra order of chickens and she didn’t have enough space for them Outdoors so she said well
[00:04:01] maybe I’ll move them inside my house and that was really the beginning of what we call conventional animal agriculture where we could Farm yeah where we could Farm billions of animals uh to feed ourselves the issue with that though is that about a third of our planet today is dedicated just to feeding those animals that we eat so I’ll I’ll say it again for your listeners because it’s a hard thing to really wrap one’s uh brain around a third of our planet is like a third of the land mass of planet Earth onethird of it so you know we see those you know those uh potential sources of intelligent life that may or may not have been visiting us through the you know the recent Congressional investigations imagine them coming down here and doing a survey of the planet and them asking well how are they using this planet and one of the aliens tells you what seems like a third of it is dedicated uh to this food well is it for them no no it’s it’s to feed the animals
[00:05:00] that they eat and then you know they probably then leave right away because they determine that we’re not the most intelligent species but that third of a planet that we use to feed the animals we eat the total volume of that food is actually more than we feed the billion people are going to bed hungry every single night it’s insane yeah the second issue with the consumption of all these animals is that when we look at what is driving climate change um all of the billions of animals that are slaughtered for our consumption are responsible for more greenhouse gas emissions than all the transportation sources combined so many of the soy and corn fields that are planted are where biodiverse rainforests used to stand which are sucking in um carbon from the atmosphere and helping to mitigate climate change third the animals weat are often packed bodyto body in small SPAC spaces and that leads to a breeding ground of zoonotic diseases like aagal disease or like an AV Aven flu and then the last
[00:06:03] you know thing Peter and this is the thing that resonates the most with me not the most with investors or you know my friends I don’t know why we have to cause any harm to any living thing if we don’t absolutely have to you know it’s fascinating um first of all I love those three massively compelling reasons I think the along with the first reason you brought up is the fact that as people are moving out of extreme poverty to Poverty to middle class they all want higher and higher quality protein and you know who are we to say they can’t right and if they if they can then what do you clearcut more rainforest do you chop down you know City buildings and plant crops there to feed them we need to reinvent how we produce high quality protein for individuals yeah I uh I
[00:07:00] spent a little bit of time in uh subar Africa in um in one of the countries I worked in Liberia which is the third poorest country on the planet these two security guards um were outside the building I was working in and I every day when I would come in and leave I’d say hi to them and we’d talk a lot about food and I would notice that 29 out of the 30 days of the month they would be eating uh corn potatoes [Music] cheap plant-based foods and then one day of the month and it was a day they got paid they’d be eating chicken and beef and you know I thought in that moment just how difficult the situation is because I want them to get paid I want them to get paid more I want them to rise up the income ladder and have improved livelihoods but as they do that they’re going to want to just like us consume more chicken and beef and pork and lamb and seafood and how do we allow them to do that without creating the
[00:08:01] incredible pressure that it’s placing on our health and our environment our ocean ecosystems and I think the way around it is let’s give folks the meat they want but let’s just make it in a different Better Way amen I want to go back to that story you told about the woman bringing the chickens into the house and I want to uh I was fascinated in prepping for this session I asked myself the question how many chickens are there on planet Earth and when I Googled that I was blown away I think people have no idea how many chickens there are on planet Earth or cows or sheep or pigs um what’s the number you keep in your head for the number of chickens on the planet uh it’s about 90 billion at least I’ve uh that that I’ve seen and Peter what’s amazing about the volume of farm animals is the total biomass of the chickens of the cows of the pigs that are slaughtered every year is more than the total biomass of every
[00:09:00] other animal human and uh other non-human animals combined um there was an article I read about you know what would be the most relevant traces of humanity millions of years from now like what would be our defining feature chicken poop someone suggested BNS wow and I I I hope we’re known for a little bit more than that I hope so too I hope so too so this woman brings the chicken into her home uh why did she do that and then what happened next and how did we end up going from I don’t know hundreds of thousands to you know tens of billions of chickens on this planet yeah so yeah so she had a nice little outdoor farm and this is this is how farm animals used to be raised and it’s still the conception that we often have today right there animals come from a farm with the red barn and a little girl
[00:10:00] you know catching butterflies in a net but that’s that’s a fantasy Vision but back in the day it was actually true so she lived in Delaware and she had a home with about 50 chickens um in her yard basically in her backyard and she got a delivery um and this time the delivery truck was much bigger than it usually is and it had about 500 chickens and she didn’t have enough space in her backyard so she thought okay well I don’t want to turn down this delivery I’ll just bring them inside um and bring inside then did a really important thing for the animal industry it then um stimulated this movement where animals can be raised in much closer quarters and much higher densities and by raising animals in much higher densities you can produce more meat per square inch you can produce more meat per minute per day per hour per month and that obviously is a big motivator for meat companies so that accident um and I think I first name is
[00:11:00] Cecilia then led to the Advent of the conventional animal protein industry that we have today because this was after World War II you had people moving the suburbs they had more income and there was a real demand for more animal protein um and companies begin to realize that there are a lot of technology is automation that was being used previously in the automotive industry that could be applied to animal protein and that’s what happened and that so that was the birth of do and Tyson and all the massive industrialization of this industry that’s right that’s right amazing it was also the birth Peter of a whole new kind bird so the chicken that we eat for food today is not the original chicken the original chicken is called the jungle foul um it was athletic fly to the top of trees was a you know very agile Predator but what we’ve done to that that jungle fowl is
[00:12:00] we’ve created sort of a monster chicken the chicken we have today lives until 45 days its breast is en llarge it can barely stand up its uh colors have been uh wiped away only to have white feathers it’s engineered for a single purpose to make as much chicken as quickly as it possibly can before it slaughtered and then fed to us um so it is a genetically hardwired chicken for for food consumption and and nothing else yeah I don’t think people realize you know people talk about where I’m anti-gmo and I you know not for this but we’ve been genetically modifying our Foods um intensely whether it is the chicken as you just said or an ear of corn that 100,000 years ago was the size of you know my pinky and had like five kernels on it um It’s amazing And from from that Innovation to today’s industry uh protein IND it’s the number one
[00:13:00] consumed protein on the planet by far isn’t it it is yeah it’s chicken and then it’s pork and then beef and then lamb the thing about you know these animal protein companies and what we did no one including um including I think her name is Cecilia who Moved those chickens indoors was doing it for bad intentions right we they weren’t doing it thinking you know I really want to inflict harm on the planet or these animals today they were doing it because this seems like a more efficient way to produce animal protein that was the logic um so I you know I steep back and I get it I can see how that could have happened I see the logic of it the problem is when you begin to expand that industry to serve the needs of seven eight plus billion people you then have a big issue because when you need to slaughter an animal for food you have to feed that animal um and when you have to feed that animal
[00:14:01] then you need all this land and all this water and all these resources and that it’s the sort of the the idea that you have to slaughter the animal in the first place is the first inefficiency and if you can somehow change the Paradigm that you can get meat without that Slaughter you can create a more efficient way of making uh of making meat one of the things I love about you Josh other than uh amazing human heart uh and entrepreneur is your storytelling and we’ve talked about this before and those listening I want you to listen carefully to Josh as he tells his stories because uh it’s part of what you built inside your organization and as we’re serving entrepreneurs here um I’m going to come back to storytelling as one of the most important skills and entrepreneur can have so if you listen to that conversation about Cecil or what happened in this uh farmhouse um it brings it it makes it Vivid and we
[00:15:02] as humans are storytellers and we we consume data as stories so tell me the story if you would of the first time so you had been running um eat just uh which we’ll talk about a little bit prior to this and like I like to say in overnight success after 11 years of hard work you started back in 2011 uh looking at the monk uh monk uh being right mon the monk Bean yeah mon yeah being a monk Bean being able to be scrambled and and cooked like eggs and it’s amazing if anybody’s ever uh eaten uh the uh just egg products um but I remember uh when you pulled me aside I was visiting your facility your last facility and you said we’re going into cultured meat and we can talk about whether you know back then I was think we’re calling it stem cell grown meats or lab grown Meats but what was that founding story what was going on when
[00:16:00] did you you know click in that like there’s an opportunity cuz it’s it’s massive as compared to uh anything else it is well I’ll go back to I’ll go back a little bit so I I was raised in Birmingham Alabama on a lot of chicken um I remember getting off the bus at Chelsea Middle School when I was um when I was 10 and if I was lucky my mom would have a plate of chicken wings and collard greens waiting for me I remember eating chicken sandwiches at Burger King I remember eating lots of meat at outdoor barbecues before football games I grew up in a meat culture that that’s always been with me um the second important step was I read a paper when I was uh in law school I was in a a constitutional law uh class by this professor named kathern McKinnon and she um was teaching a solid class but I was more interested in this NASA paper on culturing goldfish for
[00:17:00] long-term space exploration um I don’t know why they pick goldfish goldfish I know I don’t know why but they had had run an experiment where they wanted to see if they could culture goldfish for uh you know for long-term space flight um and then as we built the company um I began to think well what else could we do that would be next what what else could we do that if we solved it wouldn’t just solve a portion of the problem but might solve almost all of the problem and I thought about all the folks I grew up with really good people who love meat right I thought about the challenges in the plant-based industry sometimes no matter how good it tastes the fact that it’s not actually meet um is a limiting step for for good people to choose it um and I thought about the technology uh around uh around cultivating meat and then I also had my best friend co-founder of the company who’s always there to push
[00:18:01] me to do things his name is also Josh who said you know what you should go for it so we decided that that would be what we would do next um and we began a small research program to investigate it and that that eventually led to where we are today what year was that in it’s about uh five years ago and all right take me through this because um you had been working with plant proteins in fact you had built one of the most extraordinary databas of all plant proteins out there and their attributes and how they combine to create different kinds of foods and it was amazing and you had a you had a lab full of of protein scientists right and and Michelin sh star chefs as well to how to cook it that’s right um and so wasn’t there a story that involved your dog as well well my um yeah my my uh my buddy Jake who I lost a little bit ago we named the the initial project the
[00:19:02] Jake project as a as a nod to him and um you know what he did for my life so the Jake project had started on a uh on an idea that this is a big chance to really impact food insecurity and do something good for the world uplift Humanity uh what did you do next so what is what is a a moonshot entrepreneur like you do when you have that big problem do you hire people do you do research do you like what’s the what was step one in this piure step one was figuring out what the current state of the research is so we had a few of our scientists talk to people who had looked at this in the past we had our scientists look at what’s happening in the world of biopharmaceutical research and production around cell line development and production we had them gather information to see what is the current um status of where cultivating meat is
[00:20:03] um so we could then plan our next steps so our scientists spent 6 to8 months uh doing that and what they came back with is um a lot of the techniques being used in the biopharmaceutical world around cell line development and culturing cells could be applied to this um there’s been very little thought on how to translate that to food production um and there’s nothing just from a first principal’s perspective that would make anyone think that this isn’t doable so that was enough to say all right let’s now take the next step and really begin hiring people to build a program to attempt to really do it so you hire those people you have and I love the fact that you used you know zero first principal thinking right this is what Elon attributes to his success it’s like is there any F anything fundamentally that will prevent this from actually happening and if there’s not then you can look at from a first principes you know will this be as cost effective or
[00:21:03] more cost effective than the alternative and here the answer appears to be sure you don’t have to grow the entire whole animal here you can just grow the meat segment of it and so it should be cheaper and it should be more cost effective um and can it be healthier can it be better for the environment so I think check check check all the way down that line so you hire people and uh talk about the early days did you you know buy the equipment and and start producing in house I mean was it easy was it a challenge what kind of failures did you face in that first that first instantiation of this effort we we learned an important lesson in the first year two which was a lot of the um solutions to this are already out there they’re just in different Industries so for example the process of cell line development biopharmaceutical manufacturing has has
[00:22:01] really got that down the process of culturing cells in the case of a vaccine to produce antibodies biofarma companies have got that down food production is really good at taking a raw material and converting it to a finished product so we we learned that there wasn’t um there wasn’t some magic new breakthrough idea it was really a process of combining these different elements across different Industries together and that was that was a really important insight for us um and then we we eventually learned which is you know related to where we are now just because you can do it on a small scale and we were making you know bits of chicken you know back in the day does it mean a it will get approved by Regulators B folks outside your friends and your family will like it and then C that you can actually skip scale it up yeah I I think making turning into a
[00:23:01] business is is a challenge uh so let’s let’s take that a little bit at a time first of all you know when I talk about uh cultured meat and I’m on stage and I’m like you know just super excited I’m saying listen we’re going to make this more efficient right because what is meat products today it’s photons from the Sun 93 Million Miles Away traveled to the Earth they get absorbed by chloroplast and plants and they get eaten by the animal that then digests them and turns them into proteins and then the muscle and then you eat that portion of the animal and you’re really effectively uh eating embodied energy from the Sun in this regard but why not just skip a lot of that process uh and and people go that’s disgusting and I’m my answer is have you ever actually been in a slaughterhouse it’s not it’s it’s it’s beautiful um so how do you go from a you know so let’s take let’s talk about
[00:24:00] the technology a piece at a time if we would then I want to come back to the environment and cultural elements you get those cells from where and what type of cells are you starting with uh for a chicken product yeah and I do want to get back bitter to this idea of people hearing about it for the first time and um thinking it sounds strange or gross or you know ick um because there’s a lot there’s a lot going on there so hopefully we we can we can get back to that let’s unpack that cuz yeah it’s the most beautiful form of of cleanest form of food we’re going to have in the future I believe yeah okay so let’s back so I think first first in deal with it step one is realizing where a meat comes from today and in order to realize where meat comes from today one really has has to disentangle the Old McDonald had a farm
[00:25:01] fantasy from what actually is um and what actually is is a you know antibiotic fed engineered chicken lasting for 45 days about 100,000 to 200,000 in a warehouse that never sees the light never sees that farmers little girls catching butterflies in inter net or that Red Barn they just see a warehouse and then slaughtered and it’s a very similar story for uh for other farm animals so that that is the meat we eat today that’s 99 it’s a definition of Cruelty yeah and that’s that’s 99% of it and um for you know some folks who do choose pastores or other much better forms of meat just an important reminder that might be your choice but 99% is that so you sort of got to get people there now as it relates to to to cultivated meat something that would be much better in some ways in cultivated
[00:26:00] meat was would be if people just ate beans and greens and fruit we just skip the step all together um but that’s a challenge because just like people like driving cars sometimes instead of walking to work you got to meet people where they are but as it relates to cultivated meat specifically it starts with a cell and you can get that cell from a cell Bank you can get it from a biopsy of an animal you can get it from a fresh piece of meat uh and we get ours that’s currently being sold uh from a cell bank and that original cell comes from an egg and let me pause you there because one of the things that you don’t people don’t realize is if you’re starting with a cell Bank um where you have a very characterized cell um you can actually pick uh the original genetic stock if you would of the chicken the fish the the the pig the whatever that had that is the most healthiest right the best
[00:27:01] tasting um and you can raise you know people talk about different cuts of meat and this one tastes better imagine if the cost of creating the best cut of of meat or chicken is identical it’s you know it’s independent because you just pick the original Source DNA if you would of that cell and that’s an incredible idea that’s it’s exactly right it’s a way of um it’s a much more precise way of getting and clean way of getting the meat that we we want after you identify the appropriate cell line then you need to identify the right feed for that cellon so in the same way that a chicken or a cow or a pig in a warehouse is consuming soy and corn and muscle and fat are building up on their bones before they’re slaughtered the cells need to consume um and they’re consuming vitamins and minerals and amino acids some of the same stuff that’s made up that sowing and corn is made up of after you’ve identified the
[00:28:02] right feed stock um you then take that cell on with the appropriate feed and then you begin manufacturing your meats and that meat is manufactured in a stainless steel vessel called a bioreactor it’s creating the conditions for that cell to grow um and over the course of about 3 weeks that cell is doubling until you get what amounts to raw chicken or beef uh or uh or pork in that vessel and we’re talking about the muscle cells right this is the this is the the muscle which is the meat that we eat whether it’s of any of these animals and so you’re cultivating and growing these uh these uh muscle cells in this medium in this growth medium well you can do Peter you can do muscle you can do fat um so you know it depends what you know it depends what you’re trying to optimize for and then after about 3 weeks you’re removing so just if your
[00:29:00] listeners just imagine a stainless steel vessel that looks somewhat similar to what a brewery would look like and imagine taking the top off that stainless steel vessel and what you see when you look down it is raw unstructured chicken beef or pork then you take that out of the vessel the technical term is you harvest it from that is it a slurry is it a thick pudding like substance what is it feel like or look like it it looks like and I I need to figure out a better way to to communicate this one is it looks like take a chicken breast put it in a Vitamix on low blend for I don’t know 45 seconds that’s what it looks like got it okay so then we uh then we take it out of that vessel and then we run it through a process called Extrusion which is applying heat and pressure to the raw chicken beef or pork in creating what
[00:30:00] the end product is whether that’s a chicken nugget or a chicken strip or or a hamburger and then we feed it to the consumer so from so you’re rest you’re restructuring it essentially giving it structure once again ex exactly exactly um so from sell to feed to vessel to finish product to shipment to a restaurant all without the need to slaughter an animal and today it’s being and today it’s being done on um very small scales um both in Singapore where we’re selling and now the United States where we’re uh we’re also selling and first of all congrats just for folks who haven’t watched this sector as closely as I have uh Josh and uh and good meet was the first to get approval in Singapore the first get approval in the world in Singapore and is one of one of two or just one of one in the US with FDA approval one of two yeah one of two that
[00:31:02] have both FDA and USDA approval and have sold in the United States amazing amazing so super excited about that uh and and so it’s the end let’s talk about the end goal here which is going to be healthier for you cheaper for you uh locally generated um better for the planet uh and we can parse those a little bit so talk about you know where this could be produced can you imagine having a a good meat or your production Partners in every city around the world will I eventually buy products that are produced locally um versus shipped from around the world yeah the things that you need um are Talent so talent that you would have that would work in food production or biop pharmaceutical production so you want to have an environment you get Talent like that but you don’t need the same land so a country like Singapore the reason
[00:32:00] they’re behind it a country like Qatar or Saudi the reason they’re looking into it is because you don’t require all the land and all the water and all the resources you can make the same amount of meat in a much smaller space so in the future yeah you’ll have cultivated meat facilities um in uh suburbs and urban areas um you can be much closer closer to the production um and one of the key things and we’ll get into this more is the economics of building those facilities today um are probably the biggest limiting step to this happening faster um we’re using principles that are um being applied in the world of biopharmaceutical production but these stainless steel vessels that we’re talking about need to be much larger and they have to be designed and engineered and uh and purchased and installed and that’s a that’s a real limiting step to ultimately this being the meat that we
[00:33:00] all we all consume surmountable but but a challenge but no different than Tesla going from the Roadster to the model Y and 3 exactly um healthier for you there are no antibiotics in the process you you control the entire process start to finish and can keep it really healthy and what what the cells eat as well is carefully controlled that’s right so can we create a healthier product as a result of that yeah I would think about health in a few different dimensions so first is today we believe it to be healthier because you don’t have all the antibiotics used um you don’t have the risk of zoonotic disease when you look at cultivated versus conventional and you look at salmonella um you look at eoli you look at feal contamination non-existent in the cultivated space but very much existent in the in the conventional space but other health metrics like saturated fat like cholesterol they’re more or less the
[00:34:00] same that’s that’s today um in a future State you could imagine creating beef that has significantly less saturated fat beef that has more protein beef that’s potentially cholesterol free now that’s going to require um some advancements in gene editing so we have a crisper program uh that’s happening internally and so applying applying crisper to cultiv ated meat has really significant potential to create meat products that are more cost effective and healthier than the conventional sources love that uh let’s talk about cost uh because I mean for me you know I talk about the 6ds of exponential you know when you digitize and dematerialize and demonetize and democratize this is the chance for us to you know effectively digitize food production in a form um how low cost could it get I mean right now if I understand correctly I mean
[00:35:01] you’re basically selling these chicken products at the same price in the uh in the US and Singapore but you’re taking a loss at on those sales is that correct that’s right where could it get to yeah so right now the the average price of well let me take a step back so the market for meat today is about a trillion dollars wow U the average price and so t billions of animals are slaughtered every year they’re sold Market a trillion about half of that trillion are products like sausages chicken nuggets chicken strips ground beef minced pork and then the other half for steaks more um products with bones in them so that’s roughly how it split roughly the average cost of meat today of the main sources of meat it’s about $4 if you combine chicken beef and pork per kilogram or pound per pound I know we’re stuck in the us on this old imperial system the rest of the world is yeah yeah about about $4 per pound so um
[00:36:03] our cost a day without saying exactly what it is is many many many times the cost of conventional uh production today um we see a path over the next 10 years to get at or below the cost of that conventional production so at or below $4 and then ultimately to get even more significantly below the cost of that has advances in uh Gene editing as advances in production uh in efficiency take on decades from now there really three key things that have to happen to get us from where we are today which is we made some history we’re selling in Singapore to butcher shop we made some history Jose Andres one of the best chefs in the world is offering this at his restaurant on a menu in Washington DC right but how do we get from those two historic things to something lot more first is you’ve got to make this meat in much
[00:37:02] larger vessels it would be like if you and I started a micro Brewery we’re probably not going to compete with a cost of Budweiser because they’re making in much much larger vessel so therefore it’s a lot more efficient they’re buying ingredients and it’s going to be very difficult to approach their costs so we need to get our vessels from where they are today which is about 3500 lers to north of 100,000 lers that’s step one and there’s design and Engineering challenges nothing that is um can’t be done but design engineering challenges and also Capital challenges to be able to um uh spend the money uh to get these companies to actually make it second is the feed costs so our feed costs are above a dollar a liter today we need to get them into the tens of cents per liter right about 20 cents a liter how do you do that well you’ve got to buy a lot more feed and you also need to
[00:38:01] remove some of the components of the feed so basically right now Peter we’ve stuffed a whole lot of stuff in there just to ensure that it’s working well a lot of it not particularly necessary in terms of amino acids and vitamins and minerals we want to reduce the amount buy more of it and third it’s a metric called cell density so for the exact same reason why Cecilia you know um many decades ago decided that she was cool with moving those birds indoors denser operations with farm animals lead to lower cost of production denser operations in cultivated meat production lead to lower cogs lead to more efficient uh production so we want our cell densities to climb so we can make more meat in a given period of time so it’s really the path to cost parity and Below goes through bigger vessels lower feed costs and higher cell densities nice um I want to talk about the name a second uh so cultured meat I
[00:39:02] get it uh but I’ve also heard this called lab grown meat and stem cell grown meat and you’ve probably heard of a few other variants as well uh are those all accurate ways to to speak to this and is cultured meat your favorite for a particular reason so our favorite is cultivated meat okay cult excuse me cultivated meat yeah cultivated meat is our preference okay today my preference in the future is meat so I want to drop I want to drop the cultivated um I think that um so for most people out there if you’ve heard of this you probably know of it as lab grown that’s far in away the most common um way of describing what this is so what is true is there’s been a lot of research in the lab that’s true to make this happen um just like with conventional animal production there’s been a lot of research in the lab to ultimately get to that chicken that is engineered to make as much breast meat as she possibly can um but Jose Andress
[00:40:04] uh and I have our first purchase order somewhere somewhere around my house here congratulations he’s not buying the product from the lab he’s buying it from a production facility that is certified by the USDA the USDA provided a grant of inspection for our production facility not our lab so the reason why we think at least what we do should be called cultivated we should drop the lab is this is a legit production facility and many food products from yogurt to Conventional animal protein to fruit rollups started in a lab um but we think it’s you know now time to to drop it with that said um you know I always need to remember Peter that this is what I do every day but my friends in Alabama are not hanging out in research Labs with uh folks developing cell lines from cows from
[00:41:03] Japan all day long um it’s a brand new for a lot of people strain sounding thing and we need to explain what the hell it is and we need to be really open about it we need to be really open about what the comparison is um and my hope is just like with you know my phone which I would never if my brother was holding this phone I would never say his name is Jordan hey Jordan pass the smartphone I just say can you give me my phone my hope is eventually all these labels drop and we just call it we just call it meat but uh probably got to sell a little bit more before we get there all right and in fact you call it good meat in particular yeah um so and by the way if people are interested uh Josh’s website is good meat. uh and you can check it out there uh all right I see a future in which it’s vertical farms and uh and cultivated meat that is really leveling
[00:42:02] the playing field and bringing us towards F food security around the world right because you don’t have to worry about Transportation miles which by the way is a good chunk of the cost right for a lot of meals can you speak to that yeah it definitely is yeah you don’t if you think about um you know someone in North Carolina right now and uh let’s say a student at uh UNCC Chapel Hill they’re going to their Cafe and they’re having um a hamburger that uh hamburger came from often uh or actually say a pork sandwich they had a pork sandwich that pork could have been shipped from China um fed by sowing corn that was grown in Brazil and then shipped to uh uncc’s uh distribution house owned by by Cisco right before that you know college student who’s probably studying microbiology is is eating it you know
[00:43:01] eating it for lunch right didn’t have to be that way you could have a big cultivated meat facility right there in the Research Triangle right who’s just supplying that that distribution house uh uh directly so yeah the way we do meat production today is just done because it was a continuation of what you know happened in Delaware uh you know north of north of 50 years ago um and I mentioned this before but Singapore has an initiative called 30x30 where they’re aiming to get 30% of their food produced domestically by the end of the decade um and they see cultivated meat is being an important in addition of vertical Farms is being an important part of that they can own their food supply they can control their food supply they don’t have to Outsource it to another country to another group which is important for the Middle East to North Africa as well right the whole region uh let’s talk about Beyond
[00:44:01] chicken uh where are you going next uh and what are the protein sources that could be actually turned into you know cultivated Meats yeah so we’re we’re working on beef as our our next product and then pork uh is the next product after that and then we’ll get into Seafood probably starting with uh with tuna um there’s I I love Tuna and I’ve stopped eating it for two reasons right I hate the fact that we are decimating our oceans and killing most of the large sea life and then I just don’t want to take the Mercury risk yeah yeah yeah I mean it it it makes sense um I think a lot of people would choose that too if they you know took a breath and and thought about it but yeah when you can when you cultivate meat um it’s really an unlimited uh kinds of protein that you can cultivate if you want to cultivate pork or beef or lamb or tuna or
[00:45:01] salmon one of the biggest challenges for the types of products you can make however are bones are difficult right so if you want to make a chicken bone that’s more challenging I don’t know how to do that yet um probably need to find some random NASA paper and figure out maybe they’ve they’ve tried you know I’ll I’ll introduce you to uh to Dean Cayman do you know Dean I I know know of him yeah so Dean is uh running an organization in New Hampshire called the advanced regenerative manufacturing Institute and um uh it’s a couple hundred million dollar DOD but a lot of universities and corporations and what he was given was the challenge of going of generating an abundant supply of replacement organs for humans and so he is all about process and Manufacturing process and I’m shocked I haven’t introduced you so I will do this uh so what he’s built is the capability to put in on one-end uh stem cells in fact
[00:46:01] induced plur poent stem cells and out the and then those stem cells grow in large populations as you well know we talked about that earlier and then differentiating them and then producing uh organs and so the first that he created was bone ligament bone segments uh for surgeries knee surgeries ankle surgeries using human um uh derived stem cells but he’s going then to Pediatric hearts and kidneys and lungs and so that capability uh is resonant and uh I should definitely connect you guys will love each other as incredible entrepreneurs no thanks for thanks for off on that yeah I’m going to ask a related question uh have you read the book Hail Mary by Andy wear um I’m reading it now yeah I’m reading it now yeah you know it really resonated with it really reson with me because I think it’s that kind of
[00:47:02] mindset this we just have to figure it out all hands on deck all the different disciplines necessary get in a room and figure this out or else you need that mindset for this yeah his his the famous line from his other book The marshan was we’re going to engineer the out of this yeah right uh and I love that well I’m going to give you a spoiler alert at the very and um the uh the hero finds himself on an alien planet that has uh let’s say say life that’s incompatible with human digestion and so uh he at the end discloses the fact that he’s living off of Mei Burgers me burgers right so the idea that you can sample your own stem cells and grow your own protein products I read that he probably read that same NASA paper so I’ve often thought about that it’s it’s a little funny strange but still hilarious um going back to what we
[00:48:00] were saying earlier um you were talking about where this is going for for different uh uh different protein sources yeah yeah the yes so so bones are a challenge and also the more highly structured a product is so for example a steak is more challenging to do than ground beef a pork chop is more challenging to do than mint pork um a chicken thigh is more challenging to do than a chicken breast so we’re starting off with simpler products so with nuggets with chicken strips with patties with sausage with minced pork we want to build up the technology the scale to be able to do that and then eventually get to these more highly structured uh highly Structured Products and along the way really you know work to educate people about about what the what the heck this is and why it uh you know and why it and why it matters hey everybody this is Peter a quick break from the episode you know I’m a firm
[00:49:00] believer that science and technology and how entrepreneurs can change the world is the only real news out there worth consuming I don’t watch the crisis News Network I call CNN or Fox and hear every devastating piece of news on the planet I spend my time training my neural net the way I see the World by looking at the incredible breakthroughs in science and technology how entrepreneurs are solving world’s Grand challenges what the breakthroughs are in longevity how exponential Technologies are Transforming Our World so twice a week I put out a Blog one blog is looking at the future of longevity age reversal biotech increasing your health span the other blog looks at exponential Technologies AI 3D printing synthetic biology AR VR blockchain these Technologies are transforming what you as an entrepreneur can do if this is the kind of new you want to learn about and shape your neural Nets with go to demand.com back/ blog and learn more now
[00:50:03] back to the episode you know I love uh when I’m when I’m trying to uh guide Inspire entrepreneurs I I say listen I want you to find your massive transformative purpose and then the moonshots that are on that canvas of your purpose and I feel like your first moonshot was what you did uh with with uh you know uh eat just and the monk fruit and creating a new form of plant derived uh protein and then this is the second moon shot you’re taking on that canvas of transforming how you feed the world in a more compelling healthier uh civil fashion um I I love storytelling and would you mind taking a second and talking about your storytelling philosophy inside of your company and tell it to the perspective of teaching other entrepreneurs out there how important it is and why you do it you know it it goes back to
[00:51:01] um no matter no matter what we’re doing or how advanced it it might be from uh from a technology perspective you can’t take the just Primal human out of the modern human and um storytelling is just wound up in our DNA and um other than I just think this acknowledgement that it just is so very human I think about um you know the things that have really stuck with me and it’s often when someone that I respect is telling me a story that is visceral that is emotional that is concrete that sometimes has contrast in it all these things um not only have I seen resonate with me in my life but then when I’ve looked into the evidence of it um is very much evidence-based um
[00:52:03] when you when you share authentic stories that have emotion that have specific details um that um have something that’s unexpected or something contrasted it is just much more likely that it will resonate with another human animal that you’re uh that you’re talking to um a good a good example uh you know of that is there’s been a lot of there’s been a lot of research in in how um and how organizations will uh raise money for um folks that are living under a dollar a day um and you can say that um over a billion people are living under a dollar a day and you should donate to help them or you can say there’s a young girl named Rebecca um she lives in a Township in Liberia she likes to play soccer at lunch she eats corn for dinner she wants to be a
[00:53:02] musician when she grows up and you should consider helping her and that is just so much more effective um than than the big number and I think uh you know the challenge and you know I still got to work on this is you still got to talk about the numbers you still got to talk about you know these bigger meta issues but it just has to be done with an understanding that uh you know we’re not we’re not just talking to AI agents for now we’re talking to Primal human beings who are hardwired to listen to each other around a fire and that just can’t be forgotten do you actually take the time with your team to teach them storytelling and do you create stories uh as an entrepreneurial team or do you share the stories and allow others to to tell them can you go a little bit into that
[00:54:00] because I think it’s such a powerful um element and it is your point is absolutely right our brains are wired for storytelling around a campfire and and we we uh we lose interest when we hear about big numbers that we can’t relate to we relate to single individuals we relate to an individual in our tribe we relate to an emotional experience we are emotional animals but yet when we’re coming at this we either talk about dollars or big numbers but it doesn’t create a visceral connection and I just you know when I asked you on this podcast it’s like the number one thing I want people to get out of this is the power of Storytelling because you s do such a beautiful job and I learned a lot of this from you and also from Tony Robbins and others as I as I hear them giving compelling stories so let’s take it the next step here what’s your advice for entrepreneurs here yeah so I we on the on the uh the the sales team I talked to them a lot about you know when you’re you know you’re selling
[00:55:01] cultivated meat in talk about there’s this young kid named uh vidp in Singapore he’s the first person to try it and talk about what viip said um talk about his reaction to it talk about a young girl named Ka who was the first to eat it at this restaurant called 1880 but these are real stories these are real stories yeah you’re not you’re not making them up they’re real stories but you’re giving them you’re you’re painting them in in full spectrum color and details yeah so I I I I share with them use these real examples to communicate what this is so cultivated meat doesn’t come off as this you know abstraction of Technology cultivated meat is much more than cell lines growing in a stainless steel vessel right it’s these it’s a guy named uh Mr Lou in Singapore who was initially hesitant to put cultivated meat on his menu to make chicken curry rice and then his daughter said dad give this a try
[00:56:03] and then he reluctantly said all right I’ll put it on the menu and then Mr Lou had a line out of his out the block of people wanting chicken curry cultivated rice um so I really emphasize the import of of sharing these stories with our sales team and with you know anyone who’s speaking uh externally and then I just think you know I’m naturally doing it uh a lot so people you know people pick up on it um one thing we just do at our headquarters now uh Peter is all our um all our uh our offices in place for uh the team to meet are named after something that has a story behind it so for example our largest conference room is named Mr lose it’s named after that Dad who’s convinced by his daughter uh the place where I work is called Reeves drive and that’s the story of how I founded the company on a street called Reeves Drive in Southern
[00:57:00] California um yeah so it’s become part of our you know a part of our culture but you know if it’s not if it’s not real if it’s not authentic the storytelling can land really flat and be counterproductive and if it hits it’s something that it will be the thing that people remember and uh connects connects their heart and their mind with you um as with every entrepreneurial adventure and I’ve had my my uh full set of them there are massive challenges failures recommitment and then taking a shot at again do you have some stories to you know sort of incentivize people to you know pick up uh at 2: a.m. in the morning and keep going here well I mean we have almost I’ve lost count of the times that we’ve almost run out of money um over over the course of the last uh 10 plus years I think I’ve lost count of the number of
[00:58:01] people that I thought were vital at the time who were really talented who decided to leave and in the moment I thought you know that is going to change our trajectory entirely but then we regrouped found other talented people you know and and moved on um I haven’t lost count of you know the number of term sheets that I thought we were going to have that you know didn’t didn’t uh didn’t actually end up transpiring uh in the end and I I think I’ve uh you go through enough of these things where you sort of just have the expectation that a lot of is going to happen and the best way to deal with all the that’s going to happen is put your head down and just keep walking through it um um and you know it reminds me I was thinking um about like a good metaphor
[00:59:01] for this and back to Liberia during the rainy season in Liberia if you see like white people who are visiting Liberia for the first time it’s sunny and then a second later it’s storming down on them and they’re you know freaking out we got to take cover we’re running around and then you look at liberians and then just put their head down and they just walk right through it because they know it’s rainy season and for me it’s always rainy season I don’t know when the storm is going to come but it’s it’s going to come um and I’m just going to have to keep walking through it and I’ve got to just know that you you work to on something that’s important and meaningful and you try to do it the right way all you can do is try to increase the probability that you get it right um and that’s the you know that’s the way to that’s the way to go about it but not being surprised when the storm comes is a
[01:00:01] really important part I think of being an entrepreneur um you’re going to have some crazy happen to you you’re going to have people who you care about who you think are vital who will leave you you’re going to have people that you think should be so loyal and then they’re not you’re going to have investors pull their term sheets that’s the deal like that those are that that is the cost of doing something on your own that’s the cost of doing something that ultimately can be um you know really important and you got to be and the cost of going cost of going big yeah right it’s a lot easier to go incremental but when you’re trying to change the world it’s hard work and I think people have this fanciful point of view that they’ll look at you now they’ll look at what what you’ve built and oh man Josh is so lucky he’s really smart he’s got an amazing team and you know look at this overnight success and
[01:01:00] little do they know all the trials and tribulations along the way I mean I think it’s true for every major entrepreneur I don’t know anybody who’s not gone through uh these ups and downs right you know the conversations with Elon around going through bankruptcy and borrowing money and going through a divorce and leveraging you know everything for Tesla and SpaceX back in 2008 going from nothing to the wealthiest person in a decades time and uh and just it’s it’s extraordinary um would you say it’s that emotional connection that that deep emotional purpose that keeps you moving forward um I mean this is insane sometimes yeah I just really I really think that is I have a lot of fun in doing what I
[01:02:01] do I find it really creative there’s ego that’s associated with it um all that’s a part of it but like at the bottom like of all this um I want us to create food that is causing a whole less harm I really want that um and I think putting my head down and getting through a lot of this pain that has happened that I know will happen in the future um is for something that I I I deeply when no one else is listening when no one else is watching when it’s just me uh when I’m not trying to impress anyone um I really I really believe that that matters that we shouldn’t cause so much pain to ourselves and to animals and to our planet just because we really want to have bacon just CU we really want to
[01:03:02] enjoy chicken nuggets at a football game doesn’t have to be that way so that that more than anything gets me through it nice um the other thing you have to get through is uh regulations um and uh man oh man I mean there I don’t think people entrepreneurs if you have a chance to choose building something in an unregulated industry uh versus a regulated industry like the FDA or the FAA uh so how did you do it I mean uh I assume that there was a a tremendous amount of not invented here uh you’re threatening a trillion dollar industry maybe the industry doesn’t recognize uh how big the transformation could be but uh can you talk about about the regulatory process here and what was involved yes so we uh so we received
[01:04:00] approval to sell in Singapore in late 2020 actually on thanks how long did that take you it’s about a two and a half year process yes so we submitted our application waited for about two and a half years going back and forth with this agency called the Singapore Food Authority on all the questions that you would expect where do you get the cell how do you develop the cell line what’s happening in this vessel how do you convert did you bring them lunch in a did you did you bring the SFA sort of chicken sandwiches and said here try it yeah we we eventually did we eventually got yeah got them and uh and and showed it to them uh and then uh after this process that understandably they’re trying to wrap their arms around right it’s not we didn’t go into it expecting that Regulators are going to automatically get this so they asked a lot of good questions Singapore is one of the I think the most uh pragmatic evidence-based Regulators uh out there we get approval on Thanksgiving Day 2020 then we W on the sale um on December
[01:05:00] 20th uh 2020 to a group of a group of young people including that young kid I mentioned vep who were the very first table the very first humans to experience cultivated meat ever in a in a commercial setting um and then we um in parallel we had submitted an application to the FDA um and that was about a 2-year long uh process uh also very similar questions to the Singapore Food Authority where do you get to sell what’s the feed made up of how do we know it safe and then in the United States it’s not only the FDA that needs to give you clearance but also the USDA so in America it’s jointly regulated by the Food and Drug Administration um and the US Department of Agriculture um the FDA handles everything from the initial cell to what happens in The Vessel and then the USDA handles everything after it comes out of the vessel and it’s it’s served so then
[01:06:02] we worked with the USDA to get what’s called our grant of inspection that was a final step in this long regulatory process that allowed us to to sell but me we had to build up a team of people Peter who had gotten food products approved who’ gotten pharmaceutical products approved who understood how to write a dossier the application that you submit that lays out all the elements uh in the process who understood how to you know answer questions appropriately who understood how to in an emotionally intelligent way work with these agencies meaning you can’t be pinging them constantly hey do you have an update hey do you have an update right how how do you work with them thoughtfully um and uh yeah we’ll have to do uh we’ll have to do the same thing with beef and pork and you know whatever else we we decide to do uh to do next but hopefully it’ll happen a little bit f faster because the agencies have more um you know experience um uh with you know wrapping
[01:07:01] their arms around applications like these and do you is it easy once you’ve gotten chicken to get beef next in other words do these things topple quicker when you’ve gotten one through the shoot well the process so the process is very similar um what’s different is you might have different um uh a different feed composition for the beef than you would uh chicken uh but the the steps are the same I think to be determined whether Regulators will take as long with beef as they did with chicken my sense is it’ll go faster simply because they’ve done it before right now they have people within the agency that have seen applications have asked questions have seen what an appropriate answer is and what you know um what they expect so my hope is it goes a bit faster let’s talk about some predictions here I know it’s super challenging over always or you know you don’t have to call them predictions you can call them aspirations what should we see you know
[01:08:00] by the end of this decade by the end of 2040 um from yourself Andor from the industry and how many other players are there right now in this industry yeah so there about a 100 companies that are cultivating meat in some way uh whether in the smallest of lab scale or in the case of us um still a very small but of production facil day um most of them are the United States but you’ve got a number of them in Israel and Western Europe in China in Singapore um the um I’ll start with I’ll start with the the the long term if we get this right if the industry gets this right the majority of meet that will be made on January 1st 2040 where we hopefully can have another podcast together uh will be cultivated instead of slaughtered and
[01:09:01] um that that is the the goal that we will be able to say on that day the majority of meat is cultivated instead of instead of slaughtered across all Meats across all Meats across all Meats whereas today we can say the majority of meat produced um is not only slaughtered but slaughtered in you know the most industrialized setting so that is where we want get by January 1st 2040 um what I see in 2023 24 is very small scale production and when I say very small scale just to make it concrete for folks we just delivered two pounds of chicken to Jose Andress a couple days ago nice we had someone Fly 2 pound pounds of chicken deliver it to Jose Andre’s team and then they’re going to be serving the public here in the next
[01:10:00] couple days so that’s what we’re talking about talking we’re talking about volume so it’s that kind of hopefully a little bit more than that but very small scale production at least for the next two three years now yeah you’re gonna say yeah I was going to say you know by the end of the year are you up to tens of pounds are you up to yeah we’ll probably we’ll probably we’ll probably be up to tens of pounds by the by the end of the year um our our facility today maxed out has the ability to do 100,000 pounds a year fully maxed out uh but we’re not maxing it out today because we’re you just in a single restaurant and it’s more about um optimizing our process and getting sort of the the public impact of selling it as opposed to you know trying to sell as much as we can because after all we’re we’re losing money on every every P Mak it up on volume yeah but really the next inflection point will be when our company or others move to truly large scale
[01:11:01] production and companies use these terms you know some company will say you know we’re we’re in a pilot plan or we’re in a demo facility we’re in a small scale production facility those are just synonyms for not producing a lot um it’s all less than 100,000 pounds um but to get up to Millions tens of millions of pounds you got to get in these bigger vessels and that’s not going to happen for at least another two years at least you know when I look at other industries that are in the process of being disrupted you know you look at the automotive industry uh producing internal combustion cars and then they start seeing in the distance the glimmer of EVs and then now they’ve completely flipped over to EVS right uh would you imagine there will be a time where Tyson’s and Purdue and the other large chicken farmers are going to come in and say can we convert um and what’s the time frame for that because I think
[01:12:00] ultimately they’re the ones that can help you scale this with capital and distribution yeah um I definitely see that happening for the same reason that um you know our chicken farmer friend Cecilia and Delaware back in the day move the chickens indoors because it’s just more efficient I think it’s important when you know people look at um car companies back in the day sort of sticking to gas powered cars or animal protein companies sticking to Conventional production just take the emotion out of it and realize that from their point of view they think it is the most efficient way to make the thing that enables that company and themselves to make money and if you take that layer and you say okay fair enough will these companies eventually see cultivated meat as being a more efficient way to make the same amount of meat I think the answer is yes and therefore um I think you’ll definitely
[01:13:00] see Tyson and puring these other companies moving to it because it just makes rational economic sense to do so more profitable for them and better for the planet but they need just like you know Ford needed Tesla to scare the out of them MH big animal protein companies need young companies to take the BET to uh you know rock the boat a bit show them that cultivated chicken can taste like chicken and an amazing Chef like Jose Andres can serve it in one of his restaurants in DC that we can scale up and I think right now big animal protein companies are looking at cultivated meat and they’re trying to figure out they’re not quite sure they’re trying to figure out is this something that I’m going to need to worry about in the next 10 years like while I’m still working here or is this something that like whoever replaces me when I retire is going to have to worry about um and I think the more we and other companies can show
[01:14:00] them no no no it’s something you need to worry about I think the more that we’ll be able to partner with them right the more that we’ll be able to leverage their their scale uh to to make this happen uh uh a lot faster we partner with a great company called ADM uh ADM is one of the biggest suppliers of feed to the animal uh agriculture business they feed the world they feed the world and they they invest in us um and they want to develop feed for cultivated meat that enables them to use their capabilities on the feed side to do you know ultimate to do it a more efficient way Josh as we close this out uh you know these numbers by heart I want to I want to share with everybody again those numbers about the realities of the food industry and why creating cultivated meat is so critical for Humanity do you mind running through those one more time yeah so on this planet today if you were flying over and doing a surveillance of
[01:15:01] how we the Human animals using the planet you would find that a third of this planet is dedicated to not feeding me and you and my mom and my brother but dedicated to feeding the farm animals we a third of it primarily sowing corn in a more concrete way that means there’s a dude in a boulder bulldozzer somewhere in the Amazon rainforest clear cutting that biodiverse area to plant sowing corn to feed a chicken in North Carolina that you’re then eating for lunch animal agriculture is responsible for more greenhouse gas emissions than all the transportation sources combined it’s hard because when you’re eating bacon for breakfast you don’t see fumes coming off that bacon right but when a tree is not there to suck in energy uh to suck in carbon um it it has an impact uh and again it’s more uh impactful than all the transportation sources combined the
[01:16:02] way we farm animals today by continuing the legacy of my friend in Delaware 50 years ago is that they’re pack bodyto Body and when you pack living things body to body you need to layer antibiotics into their food and often they get sick and sometimes not always but sometimes when they get sick it spills over to our families like Aven flu or mad cow disease and other zoonotic diseases and then and then finally um uh the very simple fact we’re smart enough that we don’t we don’t need to create all this harm just to enjoy all this meat it doesn’t doesn’t have to be that way growing chickens all muscle barely able to stand up for just 45 days to be slaughtered in a cruel and inhumane or fashion you know it’s interesting uh there’s been a lot of discussion in the AI World about
[01:17:01] being species about you know viewing uh AIS that could become sentient and intelligent different from humans and why would we give them rights but we do that with animals all the time right we we view an a dolphin or a whale we must preserve them and not harm them but we don’t to a pig or a chicken we’re we’re species in that fashion and I find that absolutely fascinating yeah no that’s right what I think what we often do Peter is that when when you create an abstraction and you know a chicken nugget is like the ultimate abstraction just a a quick story about how even affects me I visited a chicken production facility in in uh Northern Germany and as much as I know about the issues of chicken production they took me through the chickens and the slaughter
[01:18:00] and then the chicken nugget at the end of the process I saw the chicken nugget and I was hungry and your mouth watered I was really hungry I didn’t look at it as this nugget of Cruelty I looked at it as like like damn are they going to give us a sample as much as I know about it right yeah in abstraction hides cruelty it hides you know the bulldozzer in that Amazon rainforest right it hides the transmission of of Aven fluid it hides it um and I think that um I think removing as hard as it is for us to remove that abstraction and remember that that pig or that chicken that is making that nugget isn’t necessarily more intelligent then your dog who’s sitting over there watching you as you’re on you know another Zoom call um and it’s hard for
[01:19:02] us to get there because we’re so busy you know we don’t take a moment to stop and ask ourselves these questions but I think if we did maybe we wouldn’t even need a cultivated Meat Company you know Peter we just realize that we can make those decisions ourselves um and uh and create a better world uh at the same time well Josh yes we should eat beans yes we should hold plants and having said all that thank you to you and your team at good meat. for all that you’re doing everybody please check out good meat. uh Josh you’re an extraordinary entrepreneur I’m blessed to call you a friend and uh thank you for this incredible moonshot and this journey and holy cow how far you’ve come uh and uh yeah you’ve reached orbit now it’s time to hit the moon and go to Mars next everybody uh excited to taste it myself
[01:20:02] and uh and please check it out good meat. and of course uh uh the related company eatj uh thank you all Josh thank you for your support your extraordinary work thanks [Music] Peter