the ramifications of it working are very nerve-wracking for people right if we were to sit here and not talk about Bitcoin and instead uh I said Peter you know there there is a a likelihood uh whatever the percentage that the US dollar is going to not be the global Reserve currency in the future that would be a very scary conversation that transition period historically has been very violent it it’s not something that people want to actually happen right if if you actually understand how it occurs it’s a nasty the bad thing and a massive transformative purpose is what you’re telling the world it’s like this is who I am this is what I’m going to do this is the dent I’m going to make in the universe everybody Peter dandis here welcome to moonshots and mindsets and today we’re going to talk about uh a few different elements of moonshots and mindsets but ke around the whole Bitcoin world I have with me Anthony Pompano and uh I asked Anthony who calls him Anthony
[00:01:02] and he said his mom and I guess your wife doesn’t want to call you pomp I’m going to call you pump just because you know the world calls you that good to see you pal absolutely great to see you as well thanks for having me yeah no it’s uh it’s uh it’s been a pleasure to build our our friendship uh so uh let’s begin I’m going to actually ask you a question the world sees you and knows you as one of the most respected thought leaders in the Bitcoin space how does that how does it actually feel do you feel like a level of responsibility there yeah it’s it’s a great question um I definitely don’t want to be seen that way uh because I feel like uh Bitcoin is one of these topics that you’re constantly learning about um and it’s not just learning about the software or uh the protocol itself or the design of of the mining mechanisms but you’re also learning about economics and uh politics and history and many other topics as well and so uh in some ways it’s a
[00:02:00] blessing and a curse to have kind of gone deep down this rabbit hole and done so in such a public manner uh it has afforded me amazing opportunities I’ve met an incredible number of people that I highly respect and and really enjoy speaking with and learning from uh I’ve been able to travel around the world uh because of it but at the same time uh people do look at you uh sometimes as the teacher and uh that’s not really a role that I’ve historically been uh been comfortable with because sometimes when you’re the teacher uh it stunts the learning because everyone thinks that you should have all the answers and so I try my best to kind of remind myself hey I’m definitely the student and just trying to learn alongside everybody else well it’s going to be it’s going to be fun you know it’s interesting right today uh you know Bitcoin is and we’ll get into all the details here mostly a store of value but there is a vision where I’m whipping out my Bitcoin wallet to pay for my airplane ticket and my travel and my pizza and my restaurant how far away are we from from
[00:03:00] sort of that element where Bitcoin is not just something I buy and hold on to like gold but something that I’m actually going to be utilizing in Commerce or some version of that whether it be the you know lightning Network and such yeah it’s a great question because I think you can look at this uh two different ways you can look it on a geograph Geographic basis and you can also look it on a sequential basis and so take sequence uh maybe it’s the first example uh most assets that end up becoming uh money meaning that it fulfills both store value and medium of exchange uh and then ultimately a unit of account uh they start out as a store of value right if people don’t believe that it is going to have value or hold value uh they are less likely than to want to accept it as a medium of exchange and definitely to price assets uh in it in terms of that unit of account and so you kind of have to be a store value before you earn the right to move on to become a medium of exchange or unit account and so Bitcoin so far has like done a pretty good job I think of capturing minds and and uh on the
[00:04:02] store value um you know kind of framework uh and so now the big question is when and if Bitcoin will also become that Medium of exchange and you referenced uh the lightning Network and and there’s a number of other technologies that people are trying to push forward uh that can help do that that then brings up the question around geography and so in the United States uh there’s been a number of people probably most notably Alex gladstein at the human rights Foundation who have talked about this idea of financial privilege we don’t think of uh Financial privilege as a thing but if you were to compare somebody sitting in the United States with somebody sitting maybe in Zimbabwe On The Other Extreme uh we sure have it pretty good here in the US we have a native currency that we generally believes holds most of its value over a long period of time uh there’s a liquid market in terms of medium exchange all the units uh of a good or a service are priced in that currency uh and there’s not a lot of fluctuation on an hour to hour day-to-day basis and when you compare those two environments the US is
[00:05:02] much better off and so the idea in the Bitcoin community of where medium of exchange for Bitcoin will really kind of take hold is in the places that need it most in the United States we actually don’t have a huge need for another currency as a medium of exchange the dollars work to accomplish that uh kind of vision or or or that use case but if you go to other parts of the world that is not necessarily the case and we see Bitcoin beginning to gain adoption there and then when you also talk about the crossborder components of it right when all of a sudden it’s not just for remittances although that’s a huge crossborder use case but also Imagine anyone in the world being able to set up a website and immediately start to accept payment and not have to have a bank account or not have to worry about uh foreign currency exchange or anything like that and so ultimately Bitcoin has to be a store of value I think that it’s done a pretty good job of capturing that and found success now as we move into this medium of exchange standpoint one we have to have the infrastructure and Technology available but also two is we should expect that really to story to
[00:06:01] kind of take hold in the places where the currencies and the payment Technologies are really bad and people are looking for Alternatives and so I think that’s going to be outside the United States in the short term yeah and I I when I think about that it’s really a it’s for me one of the abundance drivers out there right in in terms of in order for folks to have this concept of abundance where you’re uplifting people across Food Water Energy Healthcare education all of these things things having the ability to have currencies that hold their value and are utilizable um is fundamental otherwise it’s it’s a difficult life and so when people you know I equate the whole Bitcoin ecosystem with one of global increasing abundance yeah the other piece I would say on that Peter which I find uh really misunderstood is that you and I living in the United States we actually have an advantage planning our
[00:07:00] financial life right yes the dollar will lose value over the next you know 2 5 10 years uh but for the most part uh it will hold majority of its value compared to other currencies in the world and so that gives us this ability to say okay I’m going to save I am going to spend X dollar every you know 12 months on a b or c good or service uh I am going to invest because I am looking for a specified rate of return that will outpace uh kind of the accepted levels of inflation but if you all of a sudden go to a country or a geography where the currency rapidly depreciates as we see in in a variety of examples uh it’s really hard to plan how do you plan your life and so I think on the extremes uh having a currency that has a slow depreciation versus a rapid depreciation obviously the people that live in the economy with the slow depreciation are just at an advantage from a planning perspective and as we know you know we we live much longer lives than uh than it may seem day-to- day and so planning
[00:08:00] is the key component of this episode is brought to you by levels one of the most important things that I do to try and maintain my Peak vitality and Longevity is to monitor my blood glucose more importantly the foods that I eat and how they Peak the glucose levels in my blood now glucose is the fuel that powers your brain it’s really important High prolonged levels of glucose what’s called hyperglycemia leads to everything from heart disease to alzheimer’s to sexual dysfunction to diabetes and it’s not good the challenge is all of us are different uh all of us respond to different foods in different ways like for me if I eat bananas it spikes my blood glucose if I eat grapes it doesn’t if I eat bread by itself I get this prolonged spike in my blood glucose levels but if I dip that bread in olive oil it blunts it and these are things that I’ve learned from wearing a continuous glucose monitor and using the levels app so levels is a company that helps helps you in analyzing what’s
[00:09:01] going on in your body it’s continuous monitoring 24/7 I wear it all the time really helps me to stay on top of the food I eat remain conscious of the food that I eat and to understand which foods affect me based upon my physiology and my genetics you know on this podcast I only recommend products and services that I use that I use not only for myself but my friends and my family that I think are high quality and safe and really impact a person’s life so check it out levels. l/ Peter give you two additional months of membership and it’s something that I think everyone should be doing eventually this stuff is going to be in your body on your body part of our future of medicine today it’s a product that I think uh I’m going to be using for the years ahead and hope you’ll consider as well we we see I think the number you know correct me if I’m wrong is something like 150 million people are currently Bitcoin holders does that sound right I think that’s
[00:10:01] directionally correct somewhere somewhere in that range so if I think about this there’s been an interesting if you look at the at the Bitcoin uh pricing curve uh you know we’ve seen these these Peaks and these lows and I’ll never forget when it you know peaked back and was it 2017 and then there was this massive selloff and and would it ever come back and in each of those sell-offs and those repurchases by it feels like it’s a leveling of the playing field where we’ve gone from a bunch of of crypto whales to a much broader uh base of ownership uh is that sound about right yeah I think there’s two data points that are really important when it comes to um kind of ownership uh the first is that the amount of Bitcoin that is held by Wales uh has drastically decreased over time so there is absolute abely as a
[00:11:00] percentage basis or as an absolute basis uh on both so I think there’s two data points that are really important when it comes to uh understanding concentration ownership the first is that uh in the beginning there was very few people who wanted Bitcoin or even knew about Bitcoin and so they got a lot of Bitcoin but over time those people have slowly spent or uh sold some of that Bitcoin and so you see kind of a larger dispersion of ownership and so it’s becoming more decentralized uh in ownership which is important the second thing you see is where are those Bitcoin going and so even though Bitcoin over the last 12 months or so has dropped 75% in price there are a couple of key things that surprised me the first is that 67% of all Bitcoin has not moved during that 75% drop in price so 2third of all Bitcoin that’s in circulation people are not selling they’re not spending they’re holding it even though price is going down that would indicate a long-term conviction in either price recovering or you know never selling uh
[00:12:01] and always kind of holding for that store value the second thing is that we have seen Wallets on chain or think of these as the Bitcoin addresses with at least 0.1 or 0.01 Bitcoin kind of a couple hundred to a couple thousand dollars worth of bitcoin those continue to hit all-time highs throughout this last 12 months and so as the price drops what we’re actually seeing is not whales or really large institutions we’re seeing mostly individuals on chain that are just buying up small amounts of Bitcoin and ultimately kind of accumulating what ends up being hundreds of dollars or thousands of dollars and so those two stories kind of the dispersion from the whales to everyone else and then also kind of the all-time high uh accumulation coming from these smaller accounts tells a story of decentralization that I think is really compelling because ultimately if Bitcoin is to achieve it its Vision uh and be this decentralized electronic cash uh uh kind of system you need to have
[00:13:01] decentralization of the infrastructure you need to have decentralization of the mining you need to have decentralization of the ownership as well and so I think that ends up being kind of a Tailwind for the asset over the coming years yeah it’s it’s interesting the longterm you know holding hodling as the as the community refers to it um feels almost built into the Bitcoin mindset you know it’s interesting when I was a kid I remember for like graduation or uh birthdays or Christmases I used to get these savings bonds um which would mature in 20 years right it would be like your uncle or Aunt or or or parents not my parents but uncles or aunts would give me the savings bond it would be like a $100 savings bond they paid you know 20 bucks for it and over the course of 20 years it would mature given interest to be able to be turned in for 100 bucks and uh uh you know I recently
[00:14:02] my niece got married and I gave her a Bitcoin as a as a wedding present with the mindset that you know this is for your long-term future and there is a fundamental belief that this is a long-term play it’s not a near-term speculation and so folks who are getting into Bitcoin uh for early on first of all um I’d love you to comment on you know the notion it’s never too late to get in and then if you’re if you’re buying into Bitcoin if you’ve been thinking about it but haven’t yet or have just started why should you be thinking about getting into it what’s the mindset you should be going into Bitcoin with at at the early stages yeah a lot of people obviously over the years have asked me you know what is bitcoin how does it work why are you interested in it and one of the secrets to uh maybe my efficacy uh in teaching so many people about Bitcoin is that I never
[00:15:01] talked about Bitcoin I almost always talked about the problem first and what I would explain to them is uh the challenges that inflation provide uh for the average person and what you find in these conversations is that the average American uh but also the average global citizen was not taught anything about economics or personal finance uh ever ever never right and so when you say to them hey if you save your dollars and they continue to be devalued and you leave them in the bank for 10 years you’re losing purchasing power now the number stays the same of the number of dollars in your bank account but you lose purchasing power and so when people start to understand uh kind of how the existing system works they naturally then say like well that’s not good uh What what can I do right and so uh that has been a great way for me to then introduce the concept of Bitcoin and so the way that I think of it again this isn’t for everyone uh there’s many people who think of it differently but but the way that I found it valuable is
[00:16:01] I essentially look at the conversion of a depreciating asset over a long period of time dollars and what I am doing is I am buying an asset that is a great store value and an appreciating asset over a long period of time that’s driven by a finite Supply and kind of the structure of the system but that alone isn’t good enough I think that this mindset that you described around long-term uh hodling or holding what however you want to pronounce it is I also said to myself I am going to give the Bitcoin to my grandkids and so what that did is it got me in a mental state where I’m not trying to trade I’m not trying to time Market Cycles I’m not even really caring what the US dollar price is instead what I do is I just dollar cost average into an asset that I believe over a very long period of time will be more and more valuable and then my goal is to give that to you know uh a kind of descendants if you will now what’s fascinating is this is a traditional Financial principle right Warren Buffett
[00:17:01] and Charlie Munger will talk about you know buy great assets and hold them forever our favorite holding time is forever and so I actually think although uh the Bitcoin community and the traditional Finance Community sometimes feel like they’re at odds with each other or in competition uh they’re arguing on the internet there’s a lot more similarities than maybe people realize in terms of how these individuals look at the asset and what they plan is over a long period of time so how do you answer the person who goes You Know listen I get it I understand that it’s not being inflated there’s a limited number of 21 million Bitcoin that ever be produced etc etc but oh my God I bought it at 60 or 50 and it’s down at 17 and I mean what do you mean this is dropping much faster than the dollar value so how do you react to that for them yeah I I I think it’s uh a fair criticism if you were to look at let’s say a one-year time frame right obviously in November of 2021 Bitcoin was $69,000 today it’s at 17 uh that’s not uh a great store of value over a
[00:18:01] oneyear period because it obviously has dropped significantly but if you go back to January of 2020 kind of before the pandemic era uh Bitcoin was $8,000 and so it’s doubled over that kind of three-year period or so and so it’s outperformed most other assets including Fiat currencies like the dollar and others now what I just did there was I allowed the critics to cherry-pick a 12-month period and then i cherry-picked right and so two wrongs do not make a right uh instead what it does is it just allows for fodder to uh to kick off arguments on the internet and so I actually don’t think that uh kind of cherry-picking short uh time frames whether they’re one two three five years really matters what I’m personally more interested in is if you look at the structure of the asset over very long periods of time and and I equate it to like maybe housing most people who grew up um you know kind of before maybe the 1990s or so uh would always be told hey
[00:19:00] real estate always goes up right you’ll always make money get into real estate get into real EST a lot of the people I know made you know in Hollywood in particular the actors the the writers the musicians who made any money were the ones who took their paychecks and put it into real estate it was like just the formula over and over again absolutely and and the reason why real estate has been so great is one it’s a hard asset right uh two is in short periods of time there’s absolutely uh housing Bubbles and burst and we’ve seen that time and time again but over a long period of time it’s actually that the dollar has been devalued and so it takes more dollars to buy the same hard asset uh over a 10 20 30 year period And so you’re getting rich in dollar terms by holding non-dollar assets and so that’s really to me what Bitcoin is is that Bitcoin is uh it’s a digital asset but it’s a hard digital asset it’s hard money and what that allows for is for individuals to buy it and even though in the short term you will have price
[00:20:01] fluctuations that are very pronounced I mean when you talk about a 75% draw down or 100% uh Plus on the upside these are incredible amounts of volatility compared to other assets that are denominated in dollars that the average person would hold but over a very long period of time what you essentially are looking at is a finite Supply asset that as more and more people which is the trend continue to find out about it they seem to find it valuable and then they seem to want to actually go ahead and hold some themselves and so if you’re a student of Economics you don’t have to be in 2011 or 301 you could have attended just 101 of Supply Demand right fixed Supply asset demand goes up ultimately the price has to go up to accommodate everyone where I think a lot of the debate happens is one how and when will it go up how fast will it go up and when but also two is a lot of critics believe that demand for Bitcoin will not increase and therefore that would not lead to kind of that long-term price appreciation or store value and so
[00:21:01] you know people can debate that I think that is probably where the debate is but if demand does increase over a long period of time then the structure of it uh would tell us that the price has to go up um and all the details are up for debate and I’ll come back to that in the conversation of how how high Could It Go um but before then couple of a couple of uh points to make you know interestingly enough if you buy housing and you buy housing that is in a great location right Central Park you know on the shore in Malibu you know that is sufficiently scarce and the price goes up the fact of the matter is over time that housing is taxed and you if you you know if you do nothing um you’ll eventually lose the house back to the government because your tax bill will eventually overcome the value of the house and and one of the challenges that is is that but you know we’re not there’s no nobody taxing Bitcoin uh which is another point to
[00:22:02] make and then over the last 2 or 3 years people have put their money into real estate and they’ve seen this appreciation of their real estate and they feel like they’re incredibly smart for having invested in that real estate what they don’t realize is it’s inflation has been driving the pricing up right the actual value of the real estate hasn’t really changed and you aren’t as brilliant as you thought you were it’s like the government’s just been over inflating the money supply um any thoughts on on those two points yeah there’s a lot of friends that I have who spend uh much more time than I on you know what’s the true rate of inflation and I’ve you know for a long time thought that uh it was likely that the official CPI numbers were under counting inflation even when it was at one and a half or 2% uh and less to do with malice or uh uh kind of Nefarious activity and much more just the methodology at which it’s calculated means that it’s very much backwards looking and lags and and has a bunch of of complexities that that aren’t worth getting into um but when
[00:23:01] you look at housing housing is probably a pretty good signal to tell you uh definitely directionally but even kind of with sensitivity as to how much inflation is going up or down and so when you see housing prices up 20% year-over-year when you see rent prices up about the same that’s probably a good sign that inflation is not you know six or seven now again is real inflation 10 12 15 or even 20 people will debate I I think it’s less important to nail the exact number and it’s more to understand that by holding real estate uh in the general sense in the United States what you’re really doing is you’re just combating the inflation so you’re getting richer and richer in dollar terms but as your purchasing power going up at a faster rate than inflation questionable um and then really if you can pick the right places as you mentioned Malibu uh I think Miami there’s a couple of others that have outperformed kind of the national average uh then you’re getting a little bit of uh of alpha if you will um but for the most part I think real estate
[00:24:01] the reason why it’s been such a great asset I think it’s like 90% of millionaires in the United States made it in real estate uh is because it’s dummy proof to some degree right is uh okay so you’re basically telling me I got to have enough money to buy an asset and then I just hold it like that removes so much complexity for people uh if you think of the stock market people are trying to pick which stock they’re trying to pick when should they buy it how should they sell it when should they sell it you know oh there I saw a headline that it’s going to scare me into selling right it’s easy to just press a button and I’m out and so ultimately I think that uh real estate has a number of different components to it that make it a great investment class for the majority of folks and then what that means for Bitcoin is you know when you really think about the United States economy about 50% or so depending on which survey you look at 50% of Americans have no Investments they live 100% cash in the bank paycheck to paycheck and so yeah what we’re basically saying to
[00:25:00] those people is we have not done a good enough job educating you on how you are losing purchasing power year after year after year and so those people are literally getting poorer and poorer in purchasing power terms every single year while wealthy people understand get out of the dollar invest hold assets that appreciate and they end up actually becoming richer and richer and this is where you get the wealth inequality Gap and a bunch of the issues that I think people have identified but the other thing that we are asking is because the dollar is being depreciated and you can’t simply sit with the cash in your bank account is we are asking people to go be police officers and firemen and account uh managers uh be accountants to be marketers operations customer service whatever role that they have uh at any company in our society go be great at that role and then when you go home on nights and weekends we need you to become a professional investor we need you to become a capital allocator because if you just save your money you are actually going to be hurt and so the financial incentives is for you now to learn investing now investing is great
[00:26:01] but I don’t know if we want to have an economy predicated on the fact that every single member of it in order to stay ahead and not fall behind has to become a professional investor that seems like a really really hard uh kind of situation to be in and so the promise of Bitcoin is it can be used as a savings technology we can go back to the idea just save money and if you save money in the right asset then over time you actually have more purchasing power rather than less yeah and then the you know the General Public of Any Nation puts their faith in the government as the stabilizing force and keeping the value of their currency in fact I think the average citizen doesn’t think about that at all I want to hit on one point before we we lose it which is for folks who did buy Bitcoin at 50 or 60 or 65 and it’s now at 17 uh there is something called The Wash rule uh in investing uh uh that doesn’t apply to bitcoin and let’s talk about the important action
[00:27:00] folks should be taking uh if they haven’t yet uh do you want to describe that yeah so the way that the wash rule works is uh in the US Stock Market if you were to hold Amazon uh and you bought it at $100 then it’s now down at $10 uh you have an unrealized loss of $90 but in order to be able to use that as a loss on your taxes you have to sell the stock to capture the loss uh and so when you do that uh the government has put rules in place where they don’t want you to Simply sell the stock and buy it right back right for for a number of different reasons and so I think it’s 90 days basically you have to sell the stock and not buy it back for that 90-day period uh and then and if you do that you can you can take the loss uh and apply that to your taxes yes you you say to the government hey I lost $90 right because it it went down that 90% now what many people do that have become sophisticated in the stock market is they sell Amazon uh and they have realized that there’s a high correlation between Amazon and another company and
[00:28:00] so they just buy the other company in the 90-day period to keep the same type of exposure but they captur the loss super sophisticated uh technique um and so with the Bitcoin and crypto world uh what people realized is that that wash rule does not apply you can actually sell Bitcoin and buy it right back and capture gains or losses I’m always careful to tell people make sure that you talk to your account and make sure that somebody who is probably smarter than you when it comes to taxes looks at this and and understands your specific situation because there’s a lot of nuance and kind of ramifications for decisions you make but the general premise is that if you had bought Bitcoin at a higher price the price has dropped you would be able to sell it capture the loss and then you could buy the asset right back you don’t have to wait that 90-day period And so in essence you would end up with about the same Bitcoin but now you could use that loss on your taxes and so again it’s not a a perfect example there there are some nuances that people should pay pay attention to and talk to professional about but I do think that it’s worth
[00:29:00] understanding how the wash rule works and going and seeing is this something that you could use to your advantage as we hit the end of the year here yeah and so it’s something that I just full disclosure I did because I was I’ve been buying Bitcoin all along I just bought some again when it was down at at 16 but I bought Bitcoin when it was 60 and uh when it hit 20 or so I sold it and purchased it back so I could take that 40K loss on my taxes this here um and I just think it’s something important for folks to know if you don’t um I had uh Kathy Wood on my stage at abundance 360 and I’ve had Michael sailor uh who was my fraternity brother at MIT uh on this podcast and uh one of the things I spoke about with both of them is okay how high could it go what is the potential for Bitcoin because depending on you know it’s at 177,000 now when we’re recording this um you know if you put your money in and you lose it all
[00:30:02] you could lose 17K per Bitcoin purchased but on the flip side if you understand what the potential upside is that helps you in the calculation of do I play in this ecosystem or not so if you don’t mind I’d love to hear how you think about it how high how high could it go uh you know what is what are some metrics uh on store value as compared to you know gold or real estate how do you think about it yeah it it it’s a fascinating question because I don’t think and this is not investment advice this is just a conversation between friends and you know I’ll tell you what I do you tell me what you do and that’s about it absolutely uh I I I think that there are multiple outcomes that determine what the uh US dollar price could be and so let’s just walk through three of them right we we mentioned earlier that Bitcoin uh could be a store of value could be a medium of exchange or could also go the distance and become a unit of account and so the way I kind of look at it and by the way what do you mean by I understand store value right this is
[00:31:00] like where I put my cash to hold it you know people could buy gold they could buy stock they could buy real estate I understand medium of exchange like I’m going to buy stuff with it the third category what does that mean unit of account uh so if I ask you you know how much is the box of cereal at the grocery store you would tell me it’s $3.50 so you’re using dollars as the unit of account uh there’s uh a subset of the Bitcoin community that believe Bitcoin will become the unit of account and so you may say it is one Bitcoin or it is you know half a Bitcoin that’s an expensive serial yes the uh uh there’s Nuance obviously in terms of uh uh just as the $1 equals 100 pennies uh there are smaller units of Bitcoin called Satoshi and so the idea would be you know it’s 1,200 SATs or or whatever um and so I basically look at this as uh a probabilistic outcome and uh if you said to me it becomes a store of value on a global scale it’s probably worth uh at the high end a million dollar if it ends
[00:32:01] up being a medium of million per Bitcoin a million per per Bitcoin correct if it ends up becoming a medium of exchange it’s probably worth millions of dollars per Bitcoin and then if it ends up becoming a unit of account there’s actually no price for Bitcoin which is a very interesting concept so the reason why I say about a million dollars uh or so uh if it was to become a global store of value that’s two times the size of the gold market and you know frankly I’m probably being conservative in looking at it if you think of Bitcoin is at least a 10x Improvement on gold as a store of value it’s more divisible it’s virtual it’s more portable uh it’s more secure all these different things uh the gold Market’s about 10 trillion or so uh which is about 500k of Bitcoin if Bitcoin just reached the 10 trillion market cap and so a 2X would put it at a million bucks and then obviously anything above that would would kind of just move in in lock step now if it became a medium of exchange the reason why the price per Bitcoin is higher is because more people want to use it not just the people who want it for store
[00:33:00] value now it’s people using it to actually purchase things or accept it for the goods and services that they create and so I’ll use a broad brush and I’ll say millions of dollars because I think it’s really hard to put an exact number on it is it two million five million what I don’t know uh I tend to think that if it becomes anything more than a store of value people who are holding Bitcoin are probably pretty happy and you know the difference between two and4 million Almost Doesn’t Matter uh at that point uh given where the price is today now the last category this unit of account uh is when I say no price it’s because if I said to you right now how much is a dollar worth you would say well the dollar is worth a dollar right $1 equals $1 and so we don’t think of the dollar as volatile because everything is priced in dollars actually what we do know is that according to the official numbers the dollar has lost 7% of its value over the last 12 months right probably more than that on The Unofficial numbers and so the reason why we don’t think of price of a dollar is because we’re using an asset to buy a good or service that is
[00:34:01] priced in that asset and so if Bitcoin was to become the unit of account we would no longer think of a bitcoin price right what is price price is the exchange value between two assets and so if I have one Bitcoin as we’ve been talking what’s the price of Bitcoin $117,000 meaning if I go to the market and say who wants to buy my Bitcoin from me they’ll pay you $117,000 well if you do that with dollars other people with dollars will say well I have a dollar you have a dollar like I don’t want to buy it right what what they will do is they may want to buy it in other currencies they may want to buy it in uh uh the price of a home or something like that and so ultimately if Bitcoin is to achieve this unit of account uh the price becomes uh non-important right because now it’s all about purchasing power which is where the dollar has been how many Big Macs or Starbucks lattes can you uh purchase with it correct correct and and so the only really path I think to a true unit of account on a global scale is if Bitcoin was to ascend to become the
[00:35:00] global Reserve currency now the dollar is the global Reserve currency today that is why we price things uh if you ever go to another country um there are many countries around the world where they accept their native kind of home currency and then they will also accept dollars right it serves uh kind of uh that purpose uh of kind of an international currency that everyone uses as the reserve now for Bitcoin to get to the global Reserve currency and to ultimately become that Global unit of account I think there are two paths that are worth mentioning the first is what I call the internet path which is just more and more Commerce and GDP gets onto the internet and somebody wants a native currency for the internet and therefore Bitcoin serves that purpose in a way that Fiat currencies struggle to and so it just naturally eats up more and more of economic activity serving as that uh kind of global Reserve currency the second one is uh a little bit darker which is the failure of the Fiat currencies or kind of the the failing of the Fiat currenc at the foot of Bitcoin now as we know Fiat currencies
[00:36:00] throughout history have failed over a long period of time the average life currencies somewhere ballpark around 250 uh years or so depending on who you talk to and which currencies they’re looking at and so when you see that as kind of the historical context that doesn’t mean that there aren’t outliers some currencies could last many years after that and some currencies last you know two years and then they fail but what I think the Bitcoin Community believes is that Bitcoin is this automated Central Bank it is something that is programmatic it exists in a virtual world but it is decentralized no one controls it and so what it has done is it has mitigated many of the risks that Fiat currencies have most namely the fact that if you have a fiat currency that means someone can create more of it and humans are greedy and they create more of the currency which ultimately devalues it which then leads to its demise over very long periods of time well if you have Bitcoin and no one can create more of it then therefore for it is likely to continue to ascend in popularity and adoption which means that
[00:37:02] at the same time that the Fiat currencies are dropping in value and popularity this is ascending and so it looks like it could become a replacement what are the odds of that you and I don’t have enough time to sit and debate all the different viewpoints but literally there are people who think that there is a negative percent chance all the way to people who think there’s 100% chance and everyone in between but that would be one of the paths that it could get there to be that unit of account ultimately have no value in price terms amazing and you know that’s what makes the future so fun and exciting is you don’t know and in retrospect it’s going to be obvious how could you not have seen that coming yeah I remember in the 2008 financial crisis um there was everybody was you know screaming the the sky is falling and we’re screwed and the world is ending and I remember all of these ads I was bombarded by ads to buy gold buy gold buy gold and I actually bought some gold and I was like okay you know listen if
[00:38:00] the world’s going to end uh I can’t eat it but I can like trade it um and and so I had in my safe a number of ounces of gold and then in 2004 um I made a decision to sell my gold and buy Bitcoin now I wish I’d held all the Bitcoin I had purchased I didn’t but you know I got in and I put out a Blog saying you know I I’ve taught about the 6ds of exponential that when you digitize something in the early days it’s deceptive and then eventually disruptive and it digitizes it dematerializes demonetizes and democratizes products and services and Bitcoin is the perfect 6D analog right we’ve digitized currency in that regard it’s dematerialized the central bank and dematerialized physical currency and it’s begun to uh demonetize the transactions and democratize access here and I remember uh thinking about what are the stages that going to cause
[00:39:00] it to become more and more uh useful and adopted because the early stages it was really the tech entrepreneur it was the early bitcoiners what became known as the whales but then we started seeing institutional Investments so what are the stages of its uh ascendancy if you would what should we be looking for next yeah most disruptive Technologies actually come top down so what you get is military uh you get uh universities you get governments they really are the ones who are doing uh kind of innovative technology research and pushing things forward uh they begin to use some of this new stuff and adopt it you then see it kind of trickle down into the uh commercial or or business world so you’ll then start to see uh businesses say hey we should use this computer thing or we should use this internet thing how can we make money with it and they start to adopt it and then last and usually uh um kind of an afterthought is
[00:40:01] the individuals themselves and so if you look at the computer it literally started you know from the military all the way down to the uh businesses and then eventually everyone got kind of a laptop on uh uh their their uh desk same thing with the internet and access to it and computational power all of that Bitcoin has been the exact opposite Bitcoin has actually gone from being an asset that was adopted by individual first to now businesses and we are just starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel where countries will start to play in the in the game as well and so I think directionally understanding that sequence is important because it means that this is kind of a an individual Le Revolution if you will or technology adoption story so that’s one Milestone I think is just you got to make the jump from now businesses starting to adopt it to eventually getting the the countries the second thing that I think is really really important is that Bitcoin is this trojan horse for financial education and
[00:41:01] so I think a lot about how many people around the world are financially educated and whatever that penetration is today is quite small compared to what it will be in the future and so as we get a higher penetration of people who understand how Fiat currencies work then you will see a higher degree of adoption of Bitcoin and so kind of that penetration point is important and then the last thing uh people don’t like to hear this answer because it’s something that we don’t control but actually one of the most important uh kind of Milestones is time we simply just need to let time pass and as we know humans are horrible at this we like to do things we like to feel in control but just sitting on our hands and simply allowing time to pass uh is important for bitcoin’s development it shows a longer and longer history of it having survived without any issues without being hacked uh it allows for the idea to kind of uh gestate and eventually kind of infiltrate into people’s minds people get comfortable with it I’ve heard about it I understand how it works
[00:42:01] it has hasn’t been hacked yet hasn’t gone away my friends who invested are are investing more it’s just it’s changing the the mindset there yeah and and then the last thing is and this is a little bit morbid but uh the people who will never understand or never want to learn about it uh as is the circle of life they will eventually pass away and younger people will then ascend to the positions of power influence uh and decision making that those individuals have and so I’ve said for a long time that you know a bitcoiner will be president one day I don’t necessarily think that’s because a bitcoiner is going to run on the Bitcoin you know uh kind of party standard if you will instead what is likely to happen is that that individual who becomes the president will simply own some Bitcoin we see other politicians that own Bitcoin today uh and just like there’s a stock investor that is president today right that doesn’t mean that they ran on the uh the party of we are going to uh
[00:43:00] be invest in stocks or I believe everyone should own a stock no they just happen to have a financial asset and so I think that uh time is a really key component of it it’s just you know For Better or Worse we can’t speed it up uh and so we should just sit back and and let it do its thing a brief note from our sponsors let’s talk about sleep sleep has become one of my number one longevity priorities in life you’re getting eight deep uninterrupted hour hours of sleep is one of the most important things you can do to increase your vitality and energy and increase the health span that you have here on Earth you know when I was in medical school years ago I used to pride myself on how little sleep I could get you know used to be 5 5 and 1 half hours today I pride myself on how much sleep I can get and I shoot for 8 hours every single night now usually I’m great at going to sleep if I’m exhausted you know I’ve worked a hard day I’m right out but if I’m having difficulty and it occurs I’m having insomnia or my mind’s overactive and I need help to get that 8 hours I turned to a supplement product by life
[00:44:01] force called Peak rest now Peak rest has been formulated with an extraordinary scientific depth and background includes everything from long lasting melatonin to magnesium to El glycine to Rosemary extract just to name a few this product is about creating a sense of rest and really giving you the depth and length of sleep that you need for Recovery it’s a product I hope you’ll try it worked for me and I’m sure it will work for you if you’re interested go to myli force.com back/ Peter uh to get a discount from life force on this product but you’ll also see a whole set of other longevity and vitality related supplements that I use we’ll talk about them some other time but in terms of sleep Peak rest is my go-to supplement hope you’ll enjoy it go to myli force.com Peter for your discount so you mentioned going from uh Financial investors to to governments utilizing Bitcoin and we’ve seen El
[00:45:02] Salvador but in between there what I think about is uh family offices making large Investments and financial institutions and Sovereign wealth funds where are we in that gradation because the more uh real money investing the more I think we’re going to see stabilization and demand is that on an increase or I mean you know Kathy Wood is someone uh we we see uh we see uh micro strategies Michael sailor investing we’ve seen Tesla and you know put their TR putting treasuries into Bitcoin and so forth so I see those as signals of stabilization adoption uh and long-term uh diversification uh talk about that if you would so I I tend to think of Bitcoin in 2020 until today is really just in the second inning or second quarter it the first inning or quarter was uh going back the first 10 years of
[00:46:00] Bitcoin Bitcoin was adopted by individuals and really drove uh uh kind of everything from who was holding it who was talking about it and who thought that it had a future but once we got to 2020 we then started to see whether it was public companies whether it was hedge fund managers family offices private businesses they all started to get excited about Bitcoin and so as we continue to see uh this kind of path forward uh eventually there’s going to be a third inning or a third quarter uh which will really be the governments and so El Salvador uh is one of but before but but P before that um we’re going to see from the individuals I mean larger private institutions right are we going to see I’m looking for when are family offices going in deep and when are uh corporations putting it in you know putting their treasuries into uh into Bitcoin when our financial institutions right we’ve seen financial institutions like say
[00:47:02] this is this is a sham we’re never going to invest and then all of a sudden they’re flipping you know Jamie Diamond’s been all over the place on on this and so where are we in that sub segment subsection of the second or third quarter whatever so I would say that uh family offices that are interested in the stuff they’re already in they’ve been in now for a couple of years they kind of came in when Stanley dren Miller and Paul tutor Jones came out publicly said hey we’re buying it we think it you know it’s interesting most of the family offices said well if it’s good enough for two of the best you know investors of the last 30 40 years uh we should take a look and most of them came to the conclusion that they wanted it uh when it comes to the financial institutions uh each one of them is a little bit different but what I can tell you uh we’ve got a business that does a lot of corporate training so we go into the uh large companies large Financial organizations and and train them on uh these Technologies uh they all have dedicated teams now some of the teams are more Bitcoin Centric some of theam teams are more kind of crypto Centric some of them are looking at how do we build products and services to actually
[00:48:01] generate Revenue some of the teams are interested in should we buy it and put on our balance sheet you know there’s kind of different focuses but they all have dedicated teams looking at this and trying to figure out what’s their strategy uh and then some of them uh that are Financial organizations like a Fidelity now created the ability for uh their customers to buy and sell or to use some of those products and services and So you you’re seeing them kind of go deep deeper and deeper uh into this world the last one companies it’s pretty interesting back in 2020 we saw micro strategy we saw Square now known as block uh and we saw Tesla be three of the larger companies that were non Bitcoin native uh but ended up putting Bitcoin on their balance sheet and did it with relative size millions of dollars tens of millions hundreds of millions or even billions of dollars and so many people thought including myself that we would see a Cascade and we would see that kind of very quickly spread throughout the public market and and unfortunately we haven’t seen that yet
[00:49:00] uh instead what we’ve seen are those three companies continue to hold you know uh some of or all of their assets there’s a lot of what I’ll call kind of crypto native firms some of them are Bitcoin Centric some of them are miners or or whatever they obviously have Bitcoin on their balance sheet but outside of that there’s been very few companies uh that have actually gone ahead and done on the balance sheet the private Market there’s probably more uh in terms of just the volume or aggregate number uh but there still aren’t uh as far as we know outside of maybe a SpaceX which is now public that they’ve put Bitcoin on their balance sheet there’s still not companies that are worth tens of billions of dollars in the private Market that appear to be doing it either and so some of the question is just like how much of that is fiduciary duty versus uh Hey that the executives of the company don’t actually believe that it’s a good idea or that it could be valuable for the Enterprise it’s interesting right because I’ve had the conversation with some of my organizations I mean I know for abundance 360 my my CEO Summit I’ve uh you know said I’m happy to take
[00:50:00] payment in Bitcoin and uh we’ve had a number of members do that and then I’m just holding it in that regard but um I I am I am curious uh what you think the next big shoe to drop in this field will be yeah I think there are and what does it mean for a shoe to drop I don’t know but yeah well there’s two different things that uh I think are worth paying attention to maybe the first is uh the having cycle there’s a lot of people who think that having doesn’t matter for those that don’t know uh Bitcoin has a issuance schedule so basically how much Bitcoin is coming into circulation every single day until we reach the full 21 million every four years or so that number drops by 50% so it used to be 50 Bitcoin every 10 minutes then it went to 25 then 12 and a half now 6.25 and it’ll get cut in half again uh about 18ish months or so from now now again I’m just a student of
[00:51:01] Economics uh and supply and demand and so if you have an asset uh and there’s a change to the supply it becomes more scarce uh and demand stays the same then price has to move now how big it moves you know is Up For Debate but but price has to move and so I think that that moment uh has proven in the past to be a large Catalyst of price I think it will continue to be a catalyst of price which means the price has gone up when it’s correct about usually we’ve reached a new all-time high within about 18 months of it happening so it happens and then within the next 18 months we hit an all-time high for context uh back in May of 2020 was the last having we hit an all-time high in November of 2021 right and so again history is not a perfect guide for the future but we would be dumb if we did not pay attention to history and so I think that that moment uh has some impact uh although you could argue the impact is lessening as more and more people kind of come into the
[00:52:01] market and it’s less pronounced um but but I think it’s worth paying attention to the second thing is actually uh what I will consider uh the government adoption but the government adoption is not just should we buy Bitcoin I actually think there’s two other things governments can do to drive Bitcoin adoption the first is that they can uh go ahead and create uh either adversarial or sympathetic rules when it comes to actual regulation law and Taxation uh and so as they kind of pick and choose what their strategies are going to be uh in countries where we have seen them ban Bitcoin ownership in the past uh we’ve actually seen adoption go up so in countries like Nigeria and Pakistan the government steps in and says no this is not allowed we’re going to Outlaw this and people go and buy Bitcoin and there’s an element of like those people already didn’t trust their government and so when their government tells them not to do something they become fre interested in why do you not want me to to do this um but the other thing is the launch of Central Bank digital currencies known as cbdcs and
[00:53:01] the reason why I think these cbdcs are going to be kind of a a watershed moment for Bitcoin is that cbdcs provide a couple of things to governments that they previously weren’t able to do one that many people have talked about is surveillance so now all of a sudden they don’t need to go to a fisa court as an example in order to be able to see what’s in your bank account they can instead just look on their version of a blockchain and see what every single person actually has in their bank account little scary but the second thing is it introduces personalization to monetary policy and this is actually one of the biggest risks that I see moving forward that a lot of people aren’t yet talking about and what this risk entails is right now if a central bank makes a decision on monetary policy as one siiz fits all they raise interest rates you me and everyone else in the country we all experience the same uh kind of severity of the interest rate uh increase if they decide to actually pursue loose monetary policy the same policies applied evenly to all citizens that hold that currency but if we get
[00:54:00] Central Bank digital currencies now they may be able to say Peter you’ve been a good boy we are going to give you a lower interest rate we’re gonna give you monetary policy right we actually want you to be able to do a b or c things but pomp you’ve been a bad boy we’re going to give you the opposite and so you can see a world where personalization of monetary policy although theoretically it may sound good could be a very slippery slope manipulative sure yes and and so I think that people just as they learn more about Central Bank digital currencies they see them in action they realize what some of the powers that have now been granted uh kind of unilaterally to these governments with Central Bank digital currencies are there a lot of people say hey digital currency is a good idea but I want the one that the governments don’t control versus the one that they do and so that leads to kind of more adoption or more as the Bitcoin Community call it orange pilling of a large portion of the population yeah I mean we’re going to see continued digitization and and dematerialization of systems uh and governments I think are going to find it
[00:55:02] far too appealing not to play in this in this field let me take it back to uh those listening who are just thinking about uh about getting involved in in Bitcoin uh and cryptocurrencies and ask a question again not monetary advice but um if people have money in the bank if they have money in uh in uh different forms of savings um you know the rate of interest has been ticking up slowly as central banks increase the numbers and you can get in uh in 90day you know sort of uh treasuries uh anywhere from like 2 to 4% which is better than 0% or negative per that it was in the past but how you know if if your friend is asking you you know out of $100 how much should I put in if I have $100 that I don’t
[00:56:00] need for uh some period of Time how much should I put in Bitcoin should I invest some of it in ethereum or other cryptocurrencies how do you think about that I mean I’ll share what I’m doing and how I think about it as well but I’m curious uh pomp if you’d be willing to do that yeah I I’ve always said um there’s really two different types of people uh that are asking this question there’s what I’ll call the Prof profs the people who are focused on this day-to-day and and they’ve chosen to spe specialize in this field those people are going to have a very large portion right that this is what they see as their day-to-day I I liken it to a venture capitalist who has overweight exposure to venture capital or I liken it to uh public stock hedge fund manager who has way too much money probably in their uh hedge fund um and so I think uh take those people out of the equation for a second and let’s just talk about again the teacher the firefighter the the accounting manager or whoever uh and really it’s just like any other uh kind of asymmetric asset it’s probably somewhere between 1 to 5% uh
[00:57:02] it’s some value that you’re willing to lose if it doesn’t work uh but it’s enough that where if the asymmetry actually works it has a material impact on the portfolio uh and then it’s money that you’re actually willing to have be illiquid for a long period of time which is a key component yes it is still liquid because you could go sell the Bitcoin at any time but if you are thinking about it over the long run you basically would then dollar cost average into the asset so buy you know periodically a certain amount and then essentially just think of it as a liquid you’re not going to touch it for whether that’s 5 10 15 20 years and so naturally it’s got to be a small percentage to kind of fit that criteria for most people yeah so just to to to slow this down a second and use what we talked about before um you know bitcoin’s at 177,000 if you’re putting if you’re putting 1 to 5% um and you have to be willing to say I’m not going to touch that for 5 years at least 10 years probably right maybe for even longer so
[00:58:03] can you afford to put that amount away you have to have in the back of your mind probably low probability but still could I afford to lose this but on the flip side if it’s going from 177,000 to just for ease of of mathematics you know 1.7 million if it’s gone from the million to the millions right then you have 100x uh increase uh in potential value there so that’s that disproportional like I’m willing to lose it all but if it goes 100x it’s a home run and so I’m going to take that that bet is that the way you should think about it that’s the way that I’ve always thought about it um and and I think that’s the way that majority of the folks that have told me hey I’ve got some Bitcoin or I bought some Bitcoin or I’m dollar cost averaging into Bitcoin I think that’s how they think about it right and it’s really just it’s an easy eily accessible asymmetric opportunity and there’s other asymmetric opportunities right I mean obviously
[00:59:01] venture capital and and many other kind of asset classes provide asymmetry they may just not be as easy to access they may not be as liquid they may not be uh um kind of as simple to understand what the value is and things like that um and so I think people just say you know what maybe it works maybe these crazy people on the internet are right and you know I’ll put you know 1% of my assets into it and I’ll forget about it for 10 years and let’s see what happens um and I have a friend who always jokes with me uh I asked him why he bought Bitcoin he said cuz I knew you really into it and if uh we all lost money I want to be part of the party and if we all made money I want to be part of the party too said okay man that’s amazing um how much ethereum do you own proportionate to uh to bitcoin do you own any ethereum um I think I still have some it’s very very small amount that’s left over I actually started mining uh ether um and it was uh I think $10 when I started mining it uh along the way um I actually sold I think almost all of it
[01:00:00] uh at about $150 I thought I was a genius you know nice 15x and look how smart I am uh and then it went to $1,400 the same year and felt really dumb uh so there there’s financial markets have a way of humbling you very very quickly um and so I still have some uh but on a percentage basis it it’s uh fairly insignificant compared to uh to bitcoin um and the Bitcoin uh is where all like net new dollars for years pretty much have gone uh in terms of as I’ve been dollar cost averaging I’ve just been buying Bitcoin do you own any other cryptocurrencies besides Bitcoin I have a couple of uh companies where I invested in Founders very early uh these are founders who you know it was two people in an idea type thing uh and some of them uh have gone on and and uh pivoted or or changed their plans or done things where they’ve created tokens um I I don’t directly hold them I don’t do anything I don’t trade coins anything like that but that’s pretty much the only other thing
[01:01:00] uh is um uh in in cases where people have kind of tried to figure out hey how do we build a business some of them naturally over the last three or four years uh said hey this crypto thing seems to have a lot of Tailwinds like let’s go see if there’s something here uh unfortunately in many of those cases it hasn’t worked uh so so there may be a lesson learn there of just uh uh you know B Bitcoin seems to be pretty valuable uh there’s question marks on some of the other large cap assets so you don’t have millions in Dogecoin at the moment um n the listen I’m not a funny person so I actually Elon uh when he went on um uh SNL and uh he was talking about it and kind of laughing everything I was saying I think I’m old uh because I don’t understand some of the jokes that everyone is saying I felt very out of touch and uh I was scared that I’d be I would Mark the top right if I if I had bought Dogecoin I would have marked the top for sure so I just just sat that one out probably probably was the top so you’ve got folks like Warren Buffett and and Charlie Munger
[01:02:01] who are like dudes don’t understand it don’t want to buy it don’t you know stay away I don’t know if they’re calling it a scam or they’re calling it baseless but how do you how do you think about um the old school you know sort of Rober Barons of the financial world uh you know dissing a Bitcoin what do you you know they just don’t get it they just don’t understand it are they fundamentally wrong is there any arguments they make that should be you know heated I’ll tell you a story um it wasn’t with Warren Buffett and Charlie Munger but I think it it will highlight how I thought about this for the last couple of years um in 2019 I believe it was uh a partner of mine U Mark yuso uh came to New York City where I was living at the time and uh he had set up an entire day of what I called the Wall Street Legends and we went and saw a bunch of people we’re talking about Julian Robertson Howard marks and
[01:03:00] and all of these individuals who uh Mark had known for a very long period of time and in each one of the conversations uh although each one was different they basically followed the same track which was uh okay explain this that’s interesting they’d ask a question or two and then it would be great thanks so much for your time we’ll take a look at it have a great day and uh I think that um there was two ways to uh kind of react to the conversations it was very clear that they were not interested they were kind but they were not interested if you could think back in 2019 the price had fallen you know 85% or so like there was a lot of reasons not to be interested and when I walked out of the meetings uh Mark asked me he said what do you think and I said to him well we could be mad and upset and and disappointed that they don’t you know aren’t into it and all the stuff or you can be excited that you just saw the opportunity and and I chose the second one because it said to me look the people who have established careers right that there’s the innovators
[01:04:00] dilemma there’s all these things that we know in the literature that that basically highlight the fact that they are incentivized for some of this not to work they they don’t need to find the next great Trend they can actually wait for a long period of time and then when they realize that is heavily D RIS they can put a lot of money into it and so somebody like an Anthony scaramucci actually I remember talking to him about in 2019 and he was very articulated very educated on the history of currencies and and basically gave me a a lecture right uh quality uh kind of Crash Course and then he said we’re looking at it but he didn’t do anything and then a couple years later all of a sudden he bought $400 Million worth of bitcoin out of one of their funds and and and they were in and so I think that is very similar to the Warren buffets and Charlie MERS like they’re already wealthy it’s not their game it’s outside of their circle of competence which they’ve you know iterated over the years is they want to focus on the circle of competence um and it also violates a lot of their world view right if you look at these folks like they they actually believe the
[01:05:01] world doesn’t operate this way and so for them to become sympathetic to bitcoin you would basically have to flip their worldview upside down which I think is just very hard at any age I like to say I like to say an expert is someone who can tell who tells you exactly how it can’t be done right and and there’s this massive disent dis disen disincentive to uh an expert for their field to become disrupted because you’re no longer the expert and uh people get comfortable and know what they know and this has such disruptive long-term implications um that I’m sure it is scary for many I I also think that there’s this piece of um the ramifications of it working are very nerve-wracking for people right if we were to sit here and and not talk about Bitcoin and instead uh I said
[01:06:01] Peter you know there there is a a likelihood uh whatever the percentage that the US dollar is going to not be the global Reserve currency in the future that would be a very scary conversation that transition period historically has been very violent it it’s not something that people want to actually happen right if if you actually understand how it occurs it’s a nasty bad thing there’s another way to look at it which is the structure of these assets are causing bigger and bigger Bubbles and bigger problems they’re stagnation when it comes to economic uh uh kind of growth uh that there are uh increasing levels of debt and it’s becoming unsustainable and so actually we need the life Raff we need the path forward where there is hope and so regardless of whether you look at it from a doomsday perspective or an optimistic perspective it’s an uncomfortable conversation in both scenarios and so I think there’s a lot of older uh folks who’ve just been around for a long time been highly successful in a given world that uh it’s
[01:07:01] a tale as old as time they they uh they’d have to do a lot of work to change their mind and and it may not be worth it yeah you know this podcast isn’t in part about mindsets and I think there is very much a Bitcoin mindset um how would you describe a Bitcoin mindset depends on who in the Bitcoin community some some of them see the world through the lens of memes and uh and Twitter to them Twitter is real life and they’re up to date on the latest memes but you put aside the the fun part um I I think there’s a terminology uh used quite a bit called orange pilling and it’s a play on red pill blue pill um but but orange pilling is this idea that uh you start to see the world in a different perspective or through a different lens and what you end up having is a lot more questions than answers you actually are starting from a
[01:08:00] default position of skepticism when it comes to large institutions um and so things like the food supply now somehow get aligned with Bitcoin and what I mean by that is uh there’s a lot of people uh in the Bitcoin community that are sympathetic to the idea uh that the food pyramid is actually upside down it should be uh mostly a meat diet uh it shouldn’t necessarily be uh um so so many uh carbohydrates and things like that again whether they’re right or not you end up seeing that’s the first time I’ve heard that oh yeah there is a uh a very large overlap between like the carnivore diet and bitcoiners is it keto diet keto would be another version of it yeah absolutely so so there’s a couple of things and and I’m always careful like you can’t put an entire community of people in a single box right there’s also vegetarians that like Bitcoin and and all that but I do think that those two communities uh tend to to find each other the other one is what I’ll call like the the libertarian community that encompasses quite a bit
[01:09:01] but uh uh questioning uh institutions questioning governments uh trying to advocate for small government um uh and things like that you see them but ultimately I I think it’s if I had to sum it up like the Bitcoin mindset is one of self-reliance how do you build resilience right how do you do that mentally physically uh uh spiritually and financially and if you can build self-reliance and a high degree of resilience then you are closer rather than further from that Bitcoin kind of promise and Bitcoin is a way to do that financially with a piece of Open Source technology that’s decentralized not controlled by anyone but what it does is It ultimately offers the opportunity for you to take uh some sort of personal responsibility for your own Financial well-being you have to opt in right you have have to go and and learn about this you have to take control of your private keys so that you control your assets and
[01:10:00] so naturally as people learn about that in their financial life they say well what about my physical life what about my spiritual life what about my mental life uh and so you just start to see kind of an increase of uh uh independence of self-starter uh of resilience uh which I think you know on on a net basis in a general way is pretty positive for society overall the two places I’ve seen a correlation in the Bitcoin mindset um is individuals who are interested in longevity uh I think that’s a natural you know if you’re if you’re looking to add 50 or 100 years on your life having an economic system that can last you that long where you can accumulate your wealth and not have it uh sublimate and or vaporize away as the case might be and uh that makes sense the other place I’ve seen it is in the space Community uh basically people who who are interested in uh where the human race goes next uh you know I was having a conversation recently and asking the
[01:11:01] question as we move into uh outside the confines of Earth as we go to the Moon we go to Mars we build uh we build O’Neal colonies um we’re going to bring with us different elements of the human race we’ll bring forms of government we’ll bring uh languages we’ll bring societal structures we’ll bring monetary structures and the Curious question is is Bitcoin well positioned to sort of be the Baseline monetary structure for uh for the human species beyond the bounds of Earth and I tend to think yes I’m curious about your thoughts well you can start from the other side which is uh none of the other forms of money can do it right like so process of elimination gets us to bitcoin is a maybe and we have no nothing else at the moment now uh will somebody invent uh the space rocks you know currency and and it’s something we’ve never heard sure maybe um but but I think just literally
[01:12:00] process of elimination leaves us with at the moment maybe it’s Bitcoin and we don’t have any other good ideas and so uh I think if you believe that we will uh reach multiplanetary kind of life and and uh that is the the path of progression if you will uh there’s a strong argument that we better make sure that Bitcoin survives and thrives and and can ultimately be used uh in uh kind of these other uh um economies and civilizations uh because we don’t have a better idea right now right and and so I think to your point about space but also uh we don’t have a better idea of what’s going to be around in a 100 or 200 years either right and and so we we should probably work on this so speaking about what’s going to be around one of the questions that people who are just getting to bitcoin uh are need to be thinking about and asking is like where do I store my Bitcoin you know where do I put it you know because I know where I store my stocks they’re in Schwab they’re you know whatever trading account you’re you use or my accountant
[01:13:01] has them someplace and I store my dollars in this particular bank and we’ve seen just you know a recent meltdown in with FTX and a number I mean I’ve had lots of friends who have lost their cryptocurrency you know one friend of mine lost it in Voyager so um I guess the question is what how do you answer someone uh I’ll you know right now I keep my cryptocurrency a little bit in coinbase so I can trade it and send it and then the majority of it’s in Abra um which uh which I know the CEO bill baright um and you know full disclosure adviser there but it seems pretty uh pretty stable I have some cryptocurrencies on a hardware wallet uh mask where you keep yours yeah so my my best piece of advice for folks and uh in bare markets we all get the reminder of one of the value proposition of Bitcoin being your private Keys you can hold the private Keys there’s a saying not your keys not your coins uh and I just like
[01:14:02] everyone else uh I’m lazy right so like I get reminded every bare Market as well of of the importance of it um but I I think that being able to actually hold those private keys are super important the idea of self- custody um and so when you do that uh it’s pretty simple you can go uh to Ledger uh there’s a couple other companies and uh you can just buy a piece of Hardware uh they now have gotten to the point where it’s like pretty simple uh I suggest that you start with like $5 worth so you can move it off of The Exchange onto the device move it back right like get comfortable actually understanding how to move this stuff get comfortable you know checking every day hey is it still there build your confidence all of that with small amounts that if you make a mistake you you you won’t kind of beat yourself up over um but I I think that that ultimately is the best long-term strategy is to so it’s basically holding it on a hardware wallet that you have in your safe um and that Hardware wallet is a digital container if you would and if you if you
[01:15:01] there are ways to recover if you lose your password there I guess the advantage of going on an exchange like an Abra is uh a uh you get interest rates there so you can earn you know 2 to 5% depending on where things are correct yeah and uh as many people know uh I’ve used those platforms in the past um that offer interest and you have to really understand the risk that you’re taking right I’m somebody who believes in personal responsibility and and uh kind of you make individual choice and so people will 100% uh use them whether folks like it or not uh I think you just have to make sure that you understand the risk that you’re taking when uh when you use those types of platforms because what they’re ultimately doing is they’re lending out on the back end right to be able to generate the yield and then they share some with you uh very similar to what happens in the banking system or wherever else and so uh just you know wherever you keep it just understand the risks there’s risks with everything thing but but I think just doing your homework is uh is important PMP listen I’m just grateful for the the Bitcoin 101 and getting people uh knowledgeable
[01:16:02] about this I I do think it’s something that uh I advise my friends and families to get involved in to some degree and like I said I’ve been giving this sort of as latest as wedding presents and and and birthday presents which I think just forcing people to get a wallet and to uh and to accept it and think about it where do people find you uh what’s the best way for folks to follow uh your work and and your advice yeah well listen I really appreciate the conversation you’ve built an amazing community of people that uh that I’m excited to see their reaction and get their feedback um the best place is probably just Twitter uh at apompliano uh on Twitter I tend to uh to share too much there and uh blab along along with everybody else on the internet but uh but that’s probably the best place and uh do you have any uh final predictions on on bitcoin price everybody’s making predictions these days it will survive that is my prediction it’ll be greater than zero
[01:17:01] yes it’ll be greater than zero that’s a good way to put it yeah well okay I’ll take that much uh Anthony pompliano pom thank you so much for your time grateful to have you in my life and uh excited to see have this conversation a year from now and and let’s see does it get from 17 to back up to 70 we’ll we’ll see take care my friend all right thank you so much Peter everyone this is Peter again before you take off I want to take a moment to just invite you to subscribe to my weekly Tech blog today over 200,000 people receive this email twice per week in the tech blog I share with you my insights on converging exponential Technologies what’s going on in AI how longevity is transforming adding decades to our life in the tech blog I often look at the 20 metat trends that are going to transform the decade ahead and share share the conversations I’ve had with Incredible Tech thought leaders on how they’re transforming Industries if that sounds cool to you and you want to try it join me go to DM
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